Facility Nurse Watches Patient Slowly Die, Refuses CPR

reply to post by Bacardi


Do you work in a nursing home? Do you see how certain illnesse's cause elderly people extreme pain.
I dont think its as simple as trying to save her minimum wage job.
She may have been dying of cancer or have some other fatal illness, the nurse may have gotten to know the lady and her wish's, my ex was an aged care nurse who had to give it away as she got sick of turning up to work to see
Mrs Brown's bed empty as she died through the night she saw much suffering and though I am sure she wouldn't have let someone die I know the thought had crossed her mind. She told me so.
And now I have experienced the Alzheimers ward and it is not pretty. Dont judge until you have seen and know all the facts.

reply to post by thePharaoh


BS I work in an old dears home and the family are involved in every decision, they have to be unless the old dear is fully capable of making his/her mind up.

sorry

"Facility Nurse Watches Patient Slowly Die, Refuses CPR"

I think that this is one more seriously jaded individual about to join the other 7.7% unemployed.

I also think she should be charged with culpable homicide due to dereliction of duty.

Hippocratic oath states "I will do no harm" not i will do nothing!!!

Poor woman has paid tax and national insurance all her life and for what???

Where was the help required, where was the humanity???

Originally posted by James1982

Originally posted by nothingwrong

Originally posted by James1982
. I hope the woman who refused to help gets AIDS and dies. I'm serious. She deserves to suffer and die for what she did. I cannot put into words how disgusted I am with her.

I stopped reading at this point. You should be ashamed of yourself. I am disgusted that anyone would say something like this no matter what the provocation. Terrible, terrible thing to say. Shame on you.

you have a right to your opinion

in my opinion once people cross a line of doing something so evil, they loose any and all rights to be treated as a human, or even as a living creature.

I stopped reading at this point. You are obviously already dead inside. I pity you.

I have a 97 year old who wants to die, she is on morphine for pain but it does nothing and they can not give her anymore or she will overdose. She crys when she is awake and has begged me to let her go, but I have to keep her alive.
It breaks my heart that we can put animals out of their misery but we will keep fellow human beings in pain 24/7.
Every day I hope that she has passed In fact all her family do the same and they have told me If it was legal they would help her go.
It isn't all as black and white as people think, many grey areas in looking after old folk.
I just hope when Iam at that age they will allow living wills to make sure people do not have to go through what this poor old dear has to every day.
Keeping people alive in pain so you can make money out of them isn't right. (Home owners, Med's makers etc)

Originally posted by paleorchid13
sorry

edit on 5-3-2013 by paleorchid13 because: (no reason given)

I have had 2 very close family members die in hospice care. they did not want their life prolonged. this was made clear to everyone and they had dnrs. i respected their wishes and wouldn't want them to continue living in pain.

while visiting with the second one on an almost daily basis, i also did several hours of help each day for free for the facility. they had me cleaning aparments and taking laundry down to laundry area. there were a few elderly people in bad health that i became somewhat close with an i have the same feelings about them, if they didnt want their live prolonged i would never dream of forcing them

that is not what this story is about. you are skewing the whole thing. this woman died NOT because she had a DNR, NOT because she told the woman she didnt want help.

she died because this facility has a rule against helping patients, because they evidently dont have any nurses on staff

they knew she did not have a DNR. they would have to know the DNR status of all their residents, or else they could get in a serious trouble if they call paramedics for someone with a DNR

i dont know if you are purposefully ignoring what really happened here, or just misunderstood, but i say again this woman did NOT have a DNR. she did not tell the staff woman to not help her.

the woman didn't help, and stopped others from helping because of company policy and thats it

if someone wants to die i would support their choice. even if they werent elderly in bad health. there is zero evidence this is the case here, and in fact the evidence shows this woman did not want to be left for dead

reply to post by andy06shake


You are reading hype and that's the common knee jerk reaction. You wanna hang the nurse on a cross? Go ahead, but how many others will follow if policy is not changed? How many other clinical decisions are made on the behalf of policy ??? Are you going to go after the big fish, or fry the little ones?????

Originally posted by nothingwrong

Originally posted by James1982

Originally posted by nothingwrong

Originally posted by James1982
. I hope the woman who refused to help gets AIDS and dies. I'm serious. She deserves to suffer and die for what she did. I cannot put into words how disgusted I am with her.

I stopped reading at this point. You should be ashamed of yourself. I am disgusted that anyone would say something like this no matter what the provocation. Terrible, terrible thing to say. Shame on you.

you have a right to your opinion

in my opinion once people cross a line of doing something so evil, they loose any and all rights to be treated as a human, or even as a living creature.

I stopped reading at this point. You are obviously already dead inside. I pity you.

why pity someone you cannot possibly understand? you read two lines from a post and think you know me?

you go have fun hanging out with pedophiles and murderers, i bet you all have a lot of fun together high-fiving and playing ping pong.

dont pity me, pity people in this world who have been victimized. your priorities seem backwards, that you care about people who commit evil, and don't care about victims.

As a licensed nursing home administrator, with the expectation the facts in the article are as we see them with no extenuating circumstances I can honestly say I am beyond surprised and irate at what happened to this woman. To begin with resident rights trump company policy under most circumstances and definitely would in this situation. It looks to me like she had stated prior that she was a Full Code. The moment someone who is "Full Code" codes a person should tell another caregiver to call 911 and then start CPR. You do not wait for permission from your supervisor, you follow the wishes of the resident. Some states have a POLST or MOLST in place to ensure to clarify a persons choice.
As to the comment, blame the company not the employee, that is a load "of something" (can you tell this story has upset me lol). It is the fault of both sides. I cannot se how the community can get away with a No Code facility rule. If they are a licensed community I suspect they will have a investigative visit by state surveyors very soon. As for the so-called nurse...she is just as much to blame. When it comes to resident rights and abuse (yes I consider this abuse) I would expect my staff to question me and even go against my orders if I made a decision such as thIs. Long term care staff are expected to think for themselves, put their residents first and report abusive actions (or policies). Also while I don't know California regs I can say most states have Good Samaritan laws in place that would have protected the nurse from a lawsuit and I feel safe saying the nurse would have been protected by the Department of Health if she had followed the woman's wishes.
As I mentioned my two cents are based on the story not having any missing facts, but if the story is as it reads.....wow there is no excuse whatsoever for letting someone die without trying to follow their wishes.

reply to post by James1982


In what light you have told me ...the nurse abandoned her ethical duties. If what you say is true ...she was absolutely wrong in failure to act. It's a damn shame in order to work you have to make unethical decisions It's not fair to anyone ...unless you're the money maker ....

Couldn't watch it before as it wouldn't load for me and have now seen it. Look, typical MSM hyperbole but I see your point. I think it has more to do with the place being sued because a nurse didn't implement CPR properly than the Nurse protecting her job.
She would have been told by her boss not to use CPR but personally and I have been trained in first aid. I would have tried to save her knowing full well I am culpable if she dies.
Believe it or not we are told during the training that we could be sued if a person dies while trying to save them.
Blame the Lawyers and the Government and blame greedy get rich quick fraudsters for this issue.
I would say the Nurse was scared to assist which is a shame for all concerned.

reply to post by paleorchid13


"You are reading hype and that's the common knee jerk reaction. You wanna hang the nurse on a cross?"

Hang the nurse??? Where have i implied the use of capital punishment? LoL

"Go ahead, but how many others will follow if policy is not changed?"

My Gran and Grandpa are 88 and 89 respectively, life is precious when you are hanging on to the end of the rope.

"How many other clinical decisions are made on the behalf of policy ???"

Far to many thats the problem!

"Are you going to go after the big fish, or fry the little ones?????"

I would fry them all if need be. Empathy is a basic requirment for any medical health care professional. At the very least as i have allready stated the woman deserves to lose her job and have criminal charges brought against her for dereliction of duty.

What if was your grandparent? Wait to you get to that age, then tell me you dont want every last breath!

reply to post by James1982


You honestly don't understand do you?

You think I am pathetic because I say it is wrong to wish bad things on people? You say stupid things about who I would hang out with because you think I am defending...... who exactly do you think I am defending? Never mind brother. Think what you will.

Just realise that it is the bigger man who is able to look past the evil and still find a human being. Look into your heart and try to see what you have become when you wish for others to suffer and die, whatever it is they may have done.

Don't you understand? Really?

I don't condone what this woman did, it was a terrible thing and I would not have done the same. I know you would not have done the same either.

So grow up, stop throwing around stupid insults, and remember that compassion is something which blesses the compassionate as much as those for whom we feel compassion.

Originally posted by paleorchid13
reply to post by James1982

 

In what light you have told me ...the nurse abandoned her ethical duties. If what you say is true ...she was absolutely wrong in failure to act. It's a damn shame in order to work you have to make unethical decisions

It's not fair to anyone ...unless you're the money maker ....

i am only going by the information presented, and the recording, if new information comes out that shows this woman did indeed want to pass on i'll retract everything i said about the other woman

from the looks of it, there is no indication that the woman wanted to die. why wouldn't the nurse have said "she doesnt want to be revived" or something like that. i'm not asking you personally, just presenting the question in general

no hard feelings with my replies to you. everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if some people think i'm dead inside because i hope evil gets punished. that shows me how messed up this world is, that someone can tell me that I'm dead inside because my heart aches for a woman who was not allowed to live. if it didn't have empathy for the victim it would be impossible for me to get so angry, i guess by some people's definition those with empathy for victims are dead inside. what a sad world.

Moral of the story: learn CPR and other basic medical procedures yourself so you don't have to depend on people like this so-called "nurse" (complete with the accompanying bureaucratic mentality) when someone near you falls ill. If you get sued for helping someone, you get sued for helping someone. Wouldn't stop me.

Granted, at this patient's age, CPR might do more harm than good, but if doing nothing will definitely result in death, I don't see any reason not to try it.

Just to point out that giving CPR doesn't mean the person will live the success rates is only about 5% when dealing with eldery people, and even If you do save them they can die in pain from complictions due to the actual performing of that CPR (broken ribs etc).
Not saying I would not do it of course I would If the old dear had no DNR order.

reply to post by andy06shake

I quit my job when I saw how the elderly were treated. I'm in healthcare 12 years later, but I refuse to go back to that. When I think of myself at that age and that state of mind ...I want to have myself shipped to ORegon.

reply to post by paleorchid13


I have thought about quitting because of it too but If I leave the care standard may go down and heck I love my old folk they have wonderful stories to tell.
I just think a good percentage of ours If asked 20 years ago would not want to live like they do now.
We must allow living wills, I will not be like that when Iam in my 90's I will want someone to help me die without them getting in trouble.

First of all, lets examine the article using basic grammar and English comprehension skills. The deceased, according to the article, had expressed a wish that every effort be made to save her life, in the event of a risk being posed to it. That is pretty clearly written down. She had, to that effect, NOT signed a DNR order, and unless she was mentaly defunct, (which we cannot merely assume, given that there is no suggestion of that to be found anywhere in the article)she would have been the only person with any abilitiy to change that.

Now, the incident itself. Just reading the part of the article containing the discussion between the 911 operator and the "nurse", it is clear to see that not only was the "nurse" restricted by the terms of her employment, but by her own inhumanity. No where in that discussion does she show the least bit of regret, shock, or even the merest dismay at what the terms of her employment are "forcing" her to allow to happen in front of her. Her interests do not include the well being of the resident under her care, but focus, ONLY on her ability to continue her employment, and rigidly follow the formula response.

But it is clear from the 911 operators responses to this horrific set of circumstances, that even a person who has probably heard the last moments of several peoples lives over the course of thier employ, cannot fathom how someone could be so callously dogmatic when a persons life hangs in the balance. I completely understand that. This makes me sick to my stomach to be perfectly honest.

This is why I believe that there ought to be higher requirements placed upon people who work in ANY form of care based environment. The operative word is care, in that collection, or at least it bloody well ought to be. It is enough of an indignity that when one reaches old age, one is likely to loose independance, require assistance with toilet making, dressing ones self, feeding ones self, and all the other basic functions of biology. That is enough of an indignity on its own. The actions of this so called "nurse" forced a greater indignity on the person under her care. Being watched over as one dies, with a total stranger begging for ones life down a phone, and being neglected anyway is a new height of indignity.

If one wants to be working around the elderly, around the frail and the sick, or indeed in ANY caring proffession, one must be capable of caring in the first place. Not just capable of making the bed, and wiping the residents bottoms for them, but actually capable of caring, down in the pit of the heart, about what happens to the people under thier protection, people who are only in need of care because they literally cannot achieve it for themselves. Care is not about figures, forms, regulations and companies. It is supposed to be about people, both those in need of, and those who organise and provide, real care. There was no care here, there was no feeling, no remorse, no regret. Just cold, pitiless, unrelenting adherence to a set of rules which had more to do with the avoidance of legal ramifications, than they ever did to do with the actual wishes of the resident, or the demands morality OUGHT to place upon a person.

It doesnt matter if the deceased was eighty seven years old, or eighty seven minuites out of the womb. The compunction to save a persons life ought to be greater than considerations over ones own employment, over strict codes of conduct which are developed by lawyers not doctors and nurses, and which promote either by accident or design, the unecessary deaths of residents in homes like this. It is also worth mentioning, that if the deceased was paying any money toward this service, she just paid for someone to watch her die. Its like some totaly backwards snuff movie ring!

This is utterly disgusting, and I hope that warm feeling the nurse has in her gut right now, after being such a good employee, is one day replaced with the rather less pleasant, slightly more sulphurous heat reserved for cold hearted, ruthless, wastes of spirit and flesh, such as herself.