This unbelievable video just made the front page of AOL.com

The solution to this problem would be to have confiscatory taxes on estates over say $15,000,000

Then the excess would revert to the government. As part of that arrangement, the government would be obligated to auction off the property acquired from death taxes.

I put the limit at $15,000,000 because I do think that people should be able to inherit family farms and businesses within reasonable limits.

guys, just give up money. soon it will be useless anyways.
learn to grow your own food in your back yard and you'll prosper.
till then, some inspiration

The point in this post is not the Middle class hard workers, its about the 1 percent who get huge sums of money from out government ever month, the 1 percent can't fail... the GOV won't let them.... they play by a different set of rules then the middle class.

If the middle class got inside info to trade on, Government contracts, endless credit from the banks just think about what we could do..

Just think the banks get 85 billion a year in money from the gov, that's more then is spent on food stamps in the same time frame and that's just the Banks,,, look how much Oil company"s get

You see if the Big banks did not get GOV money they would be bankrupt right now... Don't you guys see that. The Banks went BK already in 08 and the 1 percent gave them self's bonuses the same year...

Now what would happen to you if you make a big mistake at work do you get a BONUS or do you get fired..

Originally posted by JuniorDisco

Originally posted by Bearack


I'd be curious to where socialism has worked? Spain? France? Maybe Greece? You could say UK, but it's a form of Hybrid socialism/capitalistic society such as the US is progressing to.

Not sure if you read to the end but he already gave you something of an answer. In the Nordic countries and Germany - all of which arguably have higher standards of living than the US - there exists a vibrant welfare state that many Americans would term 'socialist'. It works there.

Even in France, which free-market ideologues would have you believe should have collapsed around 1986, things still pretty much work. Certainly the casual visitor wouldn't notice much difference between there and the US. Apart from the superior food obviously!

One of the things that hasn't been mentioned is that tremendous inequality is actually rather economically and socially inefficient. It tends to have a corrosive effect on growth. And the downside of not educating, say, a potential cancer-cure discoverer because it's 'too expensive' should be obvious.

But as I sampled the UK, those nations are not pure socialist nations. They are hybrids with capitalist motivations woven into them. That's how China has become a financial mecca, adding a capitalistic element to their economy. It's also benefited their people as their household incomes have risen exponentially over the last 2 decades.

The reason the middle and lower class are getting squeezed more and more in this country is for the fact that we are becoming more and more a socialist nation. And being a capitalist society, these new cost are passed down to the consumer. FDR was the father of this mediocrity and the more we Europeanize the more the government is required to grow and the more that wealth will diminish.

Originally posted by Bearack

But as I sampled the UK, those nations are not pure socialist nations. They are hybrids with capitalist motivations woven into them. That's how China has become a financial mecca, adding a capitalistic element to their economy. It's also benefited their people as their household incomes have risen exponentially over the last 2 decades.

Fair point. I'm certainly no advocate of socialist absolutism. But the thing is that those countries are successful despite what you seem to imply should be a gigantic brake on their economies.

Your argument seems to be that moving the US closer to their model will weaken the US. But those nations are arguably better places to live than America, with higher standards of living and much less poverty.

The reason the middle and lower class are getting squeezed more and more in this country is for the fact that we are becoming more and more a socialist nation. And being a capitalist society, these new cost are passed down to the consumer. FDR was the father of this mediocrity and the more we Europeanize the more the government is required to grow and the more that wealth will diminish.

I can't see this is necessarily logical. Doesn't the relative success of the mixed European economies mentioned above suggest you might be mistaken?

And what's your take on my point about the inefficiency of inequality?

reply to post by pslr2301


Whose fault is this?

Is it the fault of the system or is it choices the individual has made?

I would support a different kind of welfare that helped people to get jobs where they could actually contribute to society. I think that it would be better to pay for an education for the person that you describe, as long as it was in a field that had high demand for workers and it paid a good wage.

Also, your example is the one that is always used by people making these argument. Through no fault of her own, a woman with children is trapped in the system.

If you don't want to be poor, graduate from high school. Don't have children before you are married and have a good income. It's really pretty simple and it's not rigged against anyone.

Originally posted by Wildbob77
reply to post by JuniorDisco

 

Please show me how the "system" is designed to keep anyone down

I put myself through a University and got my degree in Engineering. I worked a series of crappy jobs and lived in very modest accommodations, usually with 4 or 5 other students tying to make their way to their degree.

It's not easy but it's also not that hard. Now, I'm in the top 10%. How does my success hold anyone else back?

Sorry, I meant to remove the first part of the quote in my reply to you. I agree the system is not 'designed' to keep people down per se. But it does, I think.

Anecdotal evidence aside you must concede that the kids in the school you mention are at a disadvantage not of their own making?

reply to post by Bearack


By no means am I supporting a socialist agenda, but you asked where socialism is successful...

Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark. It's called the Nordic example and they seem to be doing just fine. There needs to be a a clarification though. They have much smaller populations.

You asked.

The larger the population, the less likely socialism is to work.

I still say the answer to our problems is freedom. Get the GOV out of the middle of the picture and let the people do what they need to do to take care of themselves...and yes, this means dropping a ton of stupid laws and regulations...but it is the only remedy to this issue.

Oh well. People can wait for someone to fix it for them or they can explore what needs to be done for themselves.

The answer is NOT wealth redistribution by force. The answer is creating or inventing things that people feel they cannot live without (whether they can or cannot is irrelevant) and get them to willing give you their money for your product or service...this is what makes the wheels go around...

Originally posted by Instructoralpha
SHOULD HAVE?

I really hate this statement in the video...

Who is anyone to take what i earn and say someone else SHOULD have it?

To me it is just delusional to think this way...

We as americans are becoming the spoiled brats weve been coddled to believe we are. Im sorry but people are successful, people fail, and some people, if their lucky, balance the two. I personally do not give one lead lined hot bucket of crap what the rich do with their money. ITS NOT MINE. Sorry fellow americans, we dont always get to win because were american. Last time i checked it takes a hell of alot of hard work to get ahead in this world and unless you are willing to do that...its simple...you wont. But to cry about the balance of wealth is not only delusional it diminishes the value of the things that people have earned and worked for.

Theres no personal pride left in this country evidently.....i may not make as much as Bill Gates, but i dont cry and think its unfair....i take pride in the job i do and the ablility to provide for my family. Because ive worked hard for what i have...and therefore value it.

So sick of this i want what hes got ..but dont want to earn it mentality.

So if you want wealth....you SHOULD go out and find it...but dont cry to me that its hard to find and try to "redistribute" mine. Welcome to the real world...if you sink or swim...its all your fault.

Grow Up America

Your post really rustled my jonathons, in fact it enrages me how blind you are. Yes Bill Gates earned his money, he's a great success story for the American Dream. What you fail to grasp, is that the top 1% do not show their faces, you do not know who they are. They hide behind astronomical amounts of wealth that you couldn't imagine, they have been inheriting money, buying out government, investing in wars and banks, taking zero risk and making HUGE investment returns that are unattainable for me and you.

You just don't get it. Once you have such a ridiculous amount of money, laws don't apply to you as they apply to the middle class. Add to the fact people have been passing money through their families for thousands of years and you can't begin to comprehend the amount of money we are even talking about. It's pure greed. It's not what your country was founded on.

reply to post by JuniorDisco


I concede that stupid parents make the lives of their children harder.

It has nothing to do with the system.

reply to post by SneakyStyle


Wow.... You want to put salary caps on people while being unable to control the printing of money and rampant inflation? It doesn't matter how many Federal Reserve Notes you have if they aren't worth the paper they are printed on. We have to fix the central bankers by introducing competing currencies, deregulate the market place and liquidate the debt... so average folks have to chance to start up a business.

I also believe by introducing a gold standard it would automatically cut the size of Gov't because there isn't enough gold in the world to fund this bloated sucker fish! Plus it would end this croney capitalism that gives free market economics a bad name by allowing wall street to rig the game in their favor.

The video in the original post never discusses the central banks,Federal Reserve, Derivatives or the continued devaluation of the U.S. dollar. These elites don't have any allegiance other than to their power over us

reply to post by Wildbob77


Or a progressive Tax system after the 5.25 million starting point that already exists. 10% starting at 5.25, and an additional 5% for each successive million. That would do some good.

The top 1% are the share holders of the military industrial complex and their subsidiaries, its the only way they could have ever amassed these wealth's, for their hands are directly in the peoples pockets, on every open available level and the only way to stop them, is to shut the government down and audit, then start seizing their accounts and give them only what is necessary for their businesses to successfully operate, and incarcerate the guilty for destabilizing the nation, starting with obama

Originally posted by Wildbob77
reply to post by JuniorDisco

 

I concede that stupid parents make the lives of their children harder.

It has nothing to do with the system.

You still don't get it do you.... but I don't expect you to. Even if you did work your way through college, you still had to be accepted into the University. When the playing field is tilted to favor the "haves" over the "have-nots", how would hard work make any difference?

“We claim to be part of the American dream and of a system based on merit and opportunity and talent,” Mr. Marx says. “Yet if at the top places, two-thirds of the students come from the top quartile and only 5 percent come from the bottom quartile, then we are actually part of the problem of the growing economic divide rather than part of the solution.”
~Anthony Marx - President of Amherst College

Hard work has nothing to do with prosperity these days. I know plenty of people who work from sun up to sun down and can barely afford a living. The children of these people do not have the same opportunities that children form well to do families have. They do not have access to the same networks that rich families have.

...and that's just the educational aspect. There are many other factors involved.

Propaganda comes from both sides, just remember that peeps.

reply to post by Wildbob77


Okay. But I suspect that not every single poor person is stupid. Nor every rich person affluent because of merit. Which means that despite your somewhat rosy view, inequality does exist. And not solely because of merit.

I will post and try and make the best sense that I can. First off, governments and corporations do not exist.

Governments are bodies of individuals who have been granted the power to hold a gun to other's heads to accomplish some goal or purpose. Whether the structure of that body of people could be described as Communist, Democratic, Republican, or any other nonsense doesn't matter. The point is it is and has always been an elite group of people who are granted special power over other people.

Corporations are business structures that are made up of shareholder's and a board of directors that make all the decisions. They exist only because of government tax and liability laws. In many ways corporations are the same as governments and are just as dysfunctional. Anyone can take a look at the largest corporation and be able to tell that something is very wrong with a system where a business is able to reach over 1 trillion in assets.

In the absence of government monopolies corporations would not exist. Business units in general would be much smaller as it is impossible to sustain unrealistic size of that proportion forever. Also, if there wasn't a separation of liability and backlash from the owners/investors no owner/investor would accept the company growing to mammoth proportions because they would be personally liable. Big business exists because of laws that allow them to.

This is also not taking into consideration the slew of other laws and taxes that make it increasingly difficult to be a private business owner. Topics such as employer tied health insurance, tax breaks, and a slew of other areas forces the majority of people to choose big business instead of going into business for themselves. The orchestrated moves toward this type of system were quite brilliant and encompass so many areas. Now the world of real business and the free market doesn't exist.

Going back to the the original point: governments are all oligarchies regardless of their label. They have always been oligarchies and will always be oligarchies. There is a small minority that lives well and doesn't have to do too much to live that way, other than being lucky and born into good money. Laws and governments are systems of slavery set up to benefit a small number of people at the expense of the slaves they control.

reply to post by Blarneystoner


I do get it. But, your argument lacks substance.

You say that the system is set up to favor certain people. I say that the system does not play favorites. People's decisions affect their circumstances and the circumstances of their offspring.

You cannot take personal responsibility out of the equation.

reply to post by JuniorDisco


You statement is true.

Not every wealthy person is smart, especially if they inherited their wealth.

Not every poor person is stupid. That's also true. However, if you're smart and poor, you have a much better chance of figuring out how to get out of the poor lifestyle. If you're stupid and poor, your chances are very limited and if you bring children into the world, what chance are you giving them?

Thanks to the OP for posting the video. To my mind it demonstrates a fundamental flaw in the American system. This flaw has existed in the system from the very beginning. The sort of inequities that have built up in America have taken a long time to accrue, but have become more noticeable because the process has been accelerating in ways that are noticeable to ordinary people now, not just the accountants of the wealthy.

America's problem is that the people at the very very top have lost interest in America. They have moved on to bigger and better things. They no longer feel the imperative to administer America in ways that will ensure its continued health and stability. They are like the teacher who takes the afternoon off and lets the class run wild.

It's not going to end well, but it will end.