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I have a question for those of you who believe in God.

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posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 02:26 PM
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Well, not even necessarily believe in God more than a Holy Book such as The Bible that is so commonly used as a "proof" to God's existence. I'll keep this nice and short. Why do you guys who follow the Bible or whatever Holy Book constantly use verses and phrases from said book when debating?

It's not proof. I'm sorry, but I'm still waiting for irrefutable evidence that the Bible is anything more than just a book that tells stories. Key word: IRREFUTABLE. And I'm sorry, but the burden IS on you. And no, you're subtle attempts at "The Father will bring the light, friend. It's all in God's hand and he will show you the truth through Christ," are ridiculous.

I don't believe in ANY organized religion. People spend their entire lives studying a book, and they become so engrossed in symbolism and underlining themes with confusing names, dates, places, etc; it becomes a mess. Furthermore, how many despicable actions were done by this "God?" Why are all of his murders justified yet you lash out when 20+ children are murdered at a school?

Why is it that our current state of political corruption and government infringement on our rights always so suddenly and outright dismissed? Yet people can put something as important as an afterlife into one of countless books that they know nothing about, and there is NO evidence reconciling the claims made in these books.

You say you believe in UFO's/Aliens: "Pics or GTFO. Wow these pics suck you should have focused more. Obviously CGI. Bug."

You say you believe in conspiracies; suddenly you must concoct the most intricate and flawless theory based on unbiased sources that fit together flawlessly, or else you're nuts, a government shill, or you "need to get out more."

Now, you say you believe in Christainity? Hell yeah man, I got my Bible and that's all the proof I need! Lets quote some verses from a book people don't believe in so that we can prove to them this book is legit!

I'm sorry, I just don't get it, and I'm not trying to be rude but I'm quite tired of other people being rude to me because "I hate God and am some pissed off kid who needs to find God/love." It's a massive leap in logical fallacies; to sit there and demand evidence on every little thing then to just bury your head in the sand and not examine your own faith and realize the double-standard you're playing on.

In synopsis, your Holy Book is not proof, of anything. It's subjective, and furthermore, IT'S A BOOK. Who are you to tell me it's God's word? Who are you to tell anyone what IS God's will? So, prove it, prove me wrong. All I ask is that you don't use the verses found in the Holy Book as proof as the Holy Books "holiness."

This whole "question everything, don't believe anything unless vigorously verified, ignore any/all speculation because it's not proof, yet I'll sit here and believe this Holy Book and all of it's murdering and non-sensual fallacies, and anyone who disagrees with me should be showered with verses from this Holy Book about how God is light and God is good and he'll come us all!"

My idea? Believers should spend less time memorizing and regurgitating passages and verses; and spend more time being kind to others and offering their guidance rather than offering their very, VERY biased and subjective belief that doesn't have any proof.




posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 02:29 PM
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reply to post by RomeByFire
 


Why do you even care what others believe??

Worry about what you believe in and allow others to believe what they want.

Threads like this are borderline antagonistic and silly.



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by DrumsRfun
reply to post by RomeByFire
 


Why do you even care what others believe??

Worry about what you believe in and allow others to believe what they want.

Threads like this are borderline antagonistic and silly.



Because I have the want to understand how other people work and why they believe what they believe?

And last time I checked this forum's backbone is debate between opposing viewpoints. And judging by your reply, you didn't even read my post.

Why do you even care to reply to my post if you believe this is antagonistic and silly? I can play that little game too

This thread isn't about you, or me, so I'll leave it at that.



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 02:37 PM
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I see children dying for no reason. I see infants being born a little over a pound in weight, only to die days later. I see wars being fought in the name of a god. I see people across the globe starving. I see so many things that shouldn't be, but are. If there is a god, he isn't doing a good job right now.



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by RomeByFire

Originally posted by DrumsRfun
reply to post by RomeByFire
 


Why do you even care what others believe??

Worry about what you believe in and allow others to believe what they want.

Threads like this are borderline antagonistic and silly.



Because I have the want to understand how other people work and why they believe what they believe?


Some people choose religion as a way to get through life.

My boss was a born again christian and although he never told me what reason made him go to church one day, he has told me that praying to god has helped him get through some tough times.

It isn't my cup of tea but if it makes him happy and his life more comfortable then that's up to him.

edit on 4/3/2013 by SilentE because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 02:44 PM
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reply to post by RomeByFire
 


From the OP,which I did read.




My idea? Believers should


You are mad at how people want you to do something they think is important but then have your own idea on what others should do??
Pot meet kettle.

Very typical when "debating" (and in this case i use that term loosely) religious beliefs.
I have seen many of these threads and am sick of the idiocy,which is why I bothered to reply to your thread.
Good luck and take care.



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by RomeByFire
 
You know, there are many people that spend their lives studying the US Constitution and go about constantly quoting it as proof of our inalienable rights. But the truth is that every day we are seeing more and more of it becoming unprovable as our rights are not upheld and are disappearing. One day in the not so distant future someone, somewhere will be posting a rant about people constantly quoting the Constitution as proof of our rights- when by that time it will be evident that we have none left. When that happens someone like me will reply to that post and say that if you don't want to read it then by all means skip those posts that you aren't interested in and disregard those which you consider a waste of your time.



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 02:48 PM
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i completely agree the bible has probably been manipulated over the years anyways also it its now outdated i dont understand how anyone can relate to it anymore i myself believe in the goodness of the heart and creation itself whatever there is out there we will all surely find out one day in the meantime love one another and remember where all on this planet having our own life experience and doing the best we can. We all make our mistakes the best we can do its stop hating



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by Quibbler
I see children dying for no reason. I see infants being born a little over a pound in weight, only to die days later. I see wars being fought in the name of a god. I see people across the globe starving. I see so many things that shouldn't be, but are. If there is a god, he isn't doing a good job right now.


according to the rules of the bibles and whatnot.. god just watches us suffer and everything happens for a reason supposedly and we have free will and all to control what we do. So if babies are dying that is our fault and if we are having wars its our fault he isnt going to fix it. He will just judge you for being naughty or nice much like santa clause who is also of course real.

The funny thing is there is probably VERY few people who read the bible and live by it that actually do it in the manor that if it were true they would actually get into heaven.

I think people who believe in bibles and gods just need something to put their trust into becuase they cant handle life without thinking that there is some man in the sky judging them so they have to be good and they will get into a magical place called heaven when they die rather then rotting in the ground and dissapearing into nothingness while their body decays.

I believe in good and evil. There are people who are good and help people and live good lives and there are bad/evil people who do not, then there is always people who live in the greyscale like myself. I do allot of good things but I do some "illegal" things that really shouldn't be illegal in the first place, and I don't hurt anyone by doing them which is the most important thing.



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by Quibbler
 


"But that's not God's fault, that's human's free will." Is typically the response to this. So, I say.
"If God is omnipotent/omniscient he would know free will and its implications." Their response, "Oh that's now how free will works."

Okay. So you a claim all-knowing all-loving all-everything. He invents a race, knows exactly what each and every person in the history of forever is even thinking, yet any atrocious actions are caused by humans free will? That's not free will, folks. IF God knows everything, that will wasn't free. It was determined.

The catcher is, free will, determinism, it all is subjective. As humans really play an arrogant role when WE determine what God is, his will, power, etc. We are all trapped in our own beliefs, because that's where they came from.

I just find it ironic how so many people who claim the need for "logic" just turn a blind-eye to logical inconsistencies in their own beliefs.



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by SilentE

Originally posted by RomeByFire

Originally posted by DrumsRfun
reply to post by RomeByFire
 


Why do you even care what others believe??

Worry about what you believe in and allow others to believe what they want.

Threads like this are borderline antagonistic and silly.



Because I have the want to understand how other people work and why they believe what they believe?


Some people choose religion as a way to get through life.

My boss was a born again christian and although he never told me what reason made him go to church one day, he has told me that praying to god has helped him get through some tough times.

It isn't my cup of tea but if it makes him happy and his life more comfortable then that's up to him.

edit on 4/3/2013 by SilentE because: (no reason given)


Please don't get the wrong idea of me. I am all for personal faith, it's what I would consider myself. One of my closest Childhood friends is a devout Christain and he's the most selfless man I've ever met.

My question is more towards sites like ATS, people who really delve into the ideology and pick it apart in a sense. I don't understand how a political conspiracy can be so heavily scrutinized for its 'logic,' yet a thread on religion can prosper without the notion of logic being mentioned.

I guess I'm having a hard time trying to say what it is I want to say?



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 02:59 PM
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reply to post by RomeByFire
 

Rome,
You are correct in what you say about believing a book just because of what it says. I believe the Bible because
of what it has done for me in in my following what it says. When I accepted Jesus Christ as God and began
to follow the instructions in the Book, my whole life started changing, so I knew that the Bible was true.
There is no way I would believe any book if I did not see the reality of what it said.
This is in no way meaning to insult you or say I am right and you are wrong. I am only agreeing with you when
you ask why anyone can believe some book just because of what it says.



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 02:59 PM
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reply to post by RomeByFire
 





I am all for personal faith


Faith is called faith for a reason,its not fact or proof,its faith and its personal thing for all of us.
You can't prove what I believe just like I can't prove what you believe is right or fact for a reason.

Its faith,to each their own.
I know you get that to each their own thing but I am just saying.



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 02:59 PM
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First off, i believe in God/YahWeh/The Lord or however you wanna call him. And NO i am not in the religion box. You don't need a religion to believe in God. So what is my proof that He/She/It exists? That's the problem with ya'll these days. I can't give you proof. But just because i don't have proof doesn't mean something doesn't exists. Few ages back they thought the earth was flat and everybody who said otherwise was a madmen. I know there is a God because he is inside each and everything and if u look deep within you will feel it. If you need prove then you could be waiting for a long time and in the meanwhile wasting your life and lessons you had too learn in this life. You won't find the answers you are looking for in religion. Religion is a key to keep the masses in check. Like sheep. God is withing you and not in some holy book.

And the reason why everything is so messed up on this planet and God is not helping us? Because WE created this craphole. God gave us paradise, food and water for everybody. And look what humans have done to the planet. And then ya'll still cry why is God not helping us. He will guide you but you have to do the rest yourself.



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by DrumsRfun
reply to post by RomeByFire
 


From the OP,which I did read.




My idea? Believers should


You are mad at how people want you to do something they think is important but then have your own idea on what others should do??
Pot meet kettle.

Very typical when "debating" (and in this case i use that term loosely) religious beliefs.
I have seen many of these threads and am sick of the idiocy,which is why I bothered to reply to your thread.
Good luck and take care.


You quoted four words out of my entire OP, come on man cherry pick much? Yeah, I do have my own beliefs. People should be more kind to one another compared to appearing kind to appease their God which may or may not even exist.

You seriously mean to tell me that's on the same page as being told you're going to burn in Hell because you don't worship my God?

Be kind to others versus believe in my Bible or my God will torture you forever.

Yeah, you got me. I am SO evil when it comes to me offering assistance on how people should treat others (we live in a effed-up world, we NEED more selflessness and kindness versus religious fanaticism and cynicism).



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by dugiewugie
reply to post by RomeByFire
 

Rome,
You are correct in what you say about believing a book just because of what it says. I believe the Bible because
of what it has done for me in in my following what it says. When I accepted Jesus Christ as God and began
to follow the instructions in the Book, my whole life started changing, so I knew that the Bible was true.
There is no way I would believe any book if I did not see the reality of what it said.
This is in no way meaning to insult you or say I am right and you are wrong. I am only agreeing with you when
you ask why anyone can believe some book just because of what it says.


Thank you.


You sound look a very-close friend of mine, and you and I aren't too far off par here. See, I tried picking it up and reading it but it just didn't do anything for me. Have I thought about giving it a go again?

Absolutely. And no, I do not mean this sarcastically at all, but I'm happy you found whatever it was you're looking for (or perhaps you weren't even looking in the first place?)

Haha, either way, take care. Thanks for the response.



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by dc4lifeskater
 


I also believe in good and evil. I also believe that evil is simply the absence of good.

And with that said, my interpretation of good and evil come from me. Sure, some ridiculously intricate chemic reactions are happening simultaneously constantly in my body that form my perception, but morality is more of that.

It comes from humility, the heart, the mind, the soul. It comes from you, and you alone.

It's like when something good happens and someone gives all the glory to God, I just want to be like "Come on, man. You did that. You did that.."



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by DrumsRfun
reply to post by RomeByFire
 





I am all for personal faith


Faith is called faith for a reason,its not fact or proof,its faith and its personal thing for all of us.
You can't prove what I believe just like I can't prove what you believe is right or fact for a reason.

Its faith,to each their own.
I know you get that to each their own thing but I am just saying.



And with that said, why can't the faith be left on a personal basis? And since it never is, why is it suddenly "okay" for logical fallacies to rise through and inconsistencies to be overlooked?

I get that's it's faith, it's baseless and I have nothing wrong with that. I have everything wrong with someone telling me on ANY topic I'm being illogical yet religion gets a pass when it comes to logic.

And then the same people tell me to suck it up and not worry about what other people believe?

Do you seem this problem with the logic or am I just losing it?



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 03:14 PM
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The World is the ''way it is '' ,wars ,abortion ,drugs,murders ,rape ,destroying and polluting the earth etc because in the beginning humans decided they wanted to rule themselves make their own decisions .......... and the Creator gave them a'' Period of time'' to prove whether or not they could or NOT ! thats why we live in a corrupt world that we live in, Its like the book Lord of the Flies where the civilized school children get shipwrecked on a island and turn into savages because they dont have adults to guide them until a Navy destroyer appears and they return to civilization .The Period will eventually end. and the Creator will step in, a put a stop to the mayhem on this earth, he will not allow it to continue forever ,and mankinds corrupt rule over the Earth will End, God will take it back and those refusing to live under his Just Laws for the benefit of all on earth, will be removed permanently ,and then the Earth will be the way it was intended ,no wars, corruption ,sickness ,pollution ,lies,etc



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 03:15 PM
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reply to post by Quibbler
 


How would you know what suffering is if you have never seen it or experienced it?

How would you know what love and hate is if you never experienced either?

How would you know the difference between pain and pleasure if you never experiened both?

Maybe you are to close minded to see god's work... AT WORK.

Life is about gaining experiences both good and bad IMHO.





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