Hiding homeopathic placebos behind deceptive titles

Originally posted by Neopan100
My 7 year old was coughing and hacking for like a week..no fever..really nothing else other than the coughing. It was so bad it would wake her up in the middle of the night. While at the store I decided to check out some cough meds for children..I usually don't like giving the kids any meds at all so I stood there for I swear what seemed like hours looking at each drug..comparing the boxes and doses and amounts..finally on the bottom shelf..WAAY down there just inches from the floor there were these little purple boxes of all-natural cough meds. I picked it up read the entire box..put it down..picked it up and finally after another 5 minutes or so I put in the cart..along side with some other better known cough syrup.

I got home and gave her the syrup and she quite coughing immediately...didn't cough again either after only one dose..sure she could have just gotten over it naturally but before I gave it to her she was still coughing pretty bad.
Now I recommend it to everyone.

The syrup is:
ZARBEES childrens nighttime cough syrup
ingred. Proprietary blend of dark honeys, water, ascorbic acid, natural flavor, tartaric acid, malic acid, zinc gluconate, mesg-pg (plant extract to preserve freshness), melatonin

I love the stuff and feel like it DID work. I know some stuff is probably bunk..but I won't discount all products just because they say homeopathic or all natural..

I did the exact same thing at the store. It was also by the floor. I will never use another cough syrup. This stuff works better than anything else Ive ever tried.

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by texasgirl

 

I don't use it. I think the theory is flawed. Even if there were something to the idea that the active ingredient leaves its imprint in the water, there is nor reason why this would trigger anything that hasn't already been triggered by the illness itself.

Here is an interesting trial putting allopathy, homeopathy and placebo against each other.
St. Ptersburg homeopathy trial

The ‘no treatment’ patients, in fact, did better than those in both the allopathic and homeopathic wards. The trial had important implications not just for homeopathy but also for the excessive allopathic drugging and bleeding that was prevalent. As a result of the report, homeopathy was banned in Russia for some years, although allopathy was not.

That is interesting, to say the least. But we don't know how many people were used, what exactly they used, how they dosed, etc...

But it is interesting. Thanks!

Originally posted by crankyoldman

Originally posted by texasgirl

Originally posted by crankyoldman

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Homeopathy is, of course, nothing more then placebo therapy - but who wants to pay out money for placebos?? apart from the faithful folowers of het cult of course - they will pay for anything.

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No it is not, it is vibrational therapy, in which a similar vibration to the ailment is given to stimulate the body's entire system to create a remedy for itself. Does it work for everyone, no.

No one has ever died from homeopathy. Big pharma on the other hand kills, yes, out right kills, 100k people a year in the US due to prescription errors, and the AMA establishment kills 200k plus a year, by their own admission. World wide, that number is over a million. Vioxx, thalidimide are fun examples of non homeopathic treatments.

This is mainly why I feel better using homeopathy on my animals. I also work with animals and I see the illnesses in pets that are taking drugs like Prednisolone, Rimaydl, Baytril...and it's not helping. A client's cat lost his vision from taking Baytril. (Baytril can also cause seizures, elevated liver enzymes, vomiting) Another client's dog had a bad reaction to Leukeran where he couldn't breathe.

If homeopathy doesn't work, it just doesn't work. And it most likely doesn't work because of improper dosage or the symptons and behavior doesn't fit the kind used.

edit on 5-3-2013 by texasgirl because: deleted a wrong word.

All true, a lot of animal issues can be traced back to diet. Dogs and Cats eating raw food resolves most issues rather quickly, but that scares people more then homeopathic cures do. We're all upside down.

Yes, raw food scared me, too. But I now use it as part of a rotation diet for my cats where I feed raw in morning and canned holistic wet food at night. They look great and they are 12 and 13 years old.

Unfortunately, feeding dry food is convenient and less time consuming.

I am allergic to all antibiotics and pain killers. Not all products are placebo.

I cure a tooth abscess and pain with oil of oregano. It works. Placebos do not take away tooth pain like that or cure an infection.

Chronic UTIs and kidney infections cured with lemon grass and daily Vit c. (changes alkalinity of urine more than cranberry)

Strep throat gone by gargling with 1/2 peroxide and 1/2 listerine. Works in 24 hours.

When you have no medical options, you search the ones that work I agree some things do not work.

There are though many that do. A lot of medications are made from things from nature.

Originally posted by amatrine
I am allergic to all antibiotics and pain killers. Not all products are placebo.

I cure a tooth abscess and pain with oil of oregano. It works. Placebos do not take away tooth pain like that or cure an infection.

Chronic UTIs and kidney infections cured with lemon grass and daily Vit c. (changes alkalinity of urine more than cranberry)

Strep throat gone by gargling with 1/2 peroxide and 1/2 listerine. Works in 24 hours.

When you have no medical options, you search the ones that work I agree some things do not work.

There are though many that do. A lot of medications are made from things from nature.

I used Clove oil to cure an absessed tooth. But these are essential oils and aren't diluted the way homeopathy is. I also used Uva Ursi (herb) for a chronic UTI infection and haven't had one since 2000 (and that was only using it once!) Again, an herb and not homeopathy. But I do use homeopathy on my cats and have had success with it.

In my opinion alternative medicine is definitely better (and cheaper) than using drugs.

Originally posted by crankyoldman

Okay, so you don't "get it." If you were alive 100 years ago you wouldn't get the nuclear bomb either, and if you were alive 20 years ago you wouldn't get the iphone tech either. Okay, because you don't get it does not mean you need to go on a campaign to stop it. I don't get vaccines, I don't get how including cancer virus' in each stick is useful to the goal of "helping" the immune system - just don't get it.

Oh, I get it. And as I say, it doesn't make any sense, by its own rules. Or the ocean would be the cure for everything, instantly.

What 'cancer virus' are you babbling about "in each stick"?

But......... in exchange for me quitting the homeopathic silliness, you have to stop crusading against things you know little about, and stick to things you have experience with. okay?

Oh, I do, though, and that's in science. You state that something's "vibrating"...ok, what? How? How do you know? You see, it isn't, and you don't. So, by your own rules, that's it for you posting in the thread, I suppose, or in any other science based thread.

As for crusading against something, your threshold for 'crusading' must be quite low.

Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by OmegaLogos
Personal Disclosure: And hence they are indeed ultra low dose ... to claim otherwise is not logical ok!

The ultra low dose of naltrexone in the study that you posted for a 176 pound person would be 12.74 billion to 12.74 trillion molecules. Below is the math:

molecular mass of a naltrexone molecule is 378 dalton = 0.000000628 fg or .0000000000628 ng

the dose cited was (100 fg/kg-10 ng/kg) or 8000 fg - 800 ng for a person weighing 80 kg (176 lbs)

8,000 fg/0.000000628 = 12,738,853,503.18471
800 ng/.0000000000628 = 12,738,853,503,184.713375796178343949

That is so far from the single digit amounts that might be present in a homoepathic dose that you can't possibly consider them to be the same.

edit on 5-3-2013 by daskakik because: (no reason given)

Explanation: Uhmmm?

Yes I can because as I detailed in my last post ... ALL of the following various dosages ARE indeed homeopathic remedies of varying concentrations ...

And just as in medicine there are many levels of dosage in homeopathy ...

And many of those homeopathic diluted solutions listed above ... would have a higher concentration of 'original atoms' dose derived from the mother solution ... than the naltrexone example I supllied and which you have studiously broken down mathematically for us [thanks for that good work ]!

Now if you want to get that picky then I qualify that any diluted solutions between 8X/4C and 24X/12C as ultra low dosages ... beyond that level I think a new classification is indeed needed ok.

Personal Disclosure: I have taken Bach flower remedies aka Rescue Remedy when I was in shock and it definately worked for me [placebo or not] ... but everyone elses 'milage' may vary and I strongly recommend that people take medicines they can afford and are comfortable with taking and that have a noticable benefit to them ok.

reply to post by OmegaLogos

No they would not be. From your Bach flower link:

They are often labeled as homeopathic because they are extremely diluted in water, but are not true homeopathy as they do not follow other homeopathic precepts such as the law of similars or the belief that curative powers are enhanced by shaking and repeated diluting ("succussion").

They are diluted herbal medications and do not use the toxic effects to trigger a immunological response from the body but instead:

Bach believed that dew found on flower petals retain healing properties of that plant.

It is a whole different technique and as the OP points out they just switch around names and labels as they see fit.

Now if you want to get that picky then I qualify that any diluted solutions between 8X/4C and 24X/12C as ultra low dosages ... beyond that level I think a new classification is indeed needed ok.

I don't think so. The amounts are still way different.

Times of India

Originally posted by Quantum_Squirrel

Times of India

edit on 5/3/13 by Quantum_Squirrel because: (no reason given)

Thanks for posting this. I wonder if England is more accepting of homeopathy than the US? I noticed the article is from India.