BBC News: Why have the white British left London?

Originally posted by JuniorDisco
Read the thread. I have answered it.

Indeed you did concede that Indians wouldn't like it if the majority of people in New Delhi and Islamabad were not Indian.

Nonetheless you then went on to argue that the UK has no city in which the British are less than 50%.

It appears you are arguing that Indian people wouldn't mind high levels of immigration until it reaches 50%. Once it does, you agreed that they would mind.

Do you really feel that 50% is a magic on/off trigger?

Are you perhaps missing the point that Indians would still object to high levels of immigration if 37% of New Delhi and Islamabad's populations were foreign born?

37% of London's population is foreign born, with the foreign born population in inner London being 42%.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Indeed you did concede that Indians wouldn't like it if the majority of people in New Delhi and Islamabad were not Indian.

Now you're just making stuff up. Where did I say this?

Nonetheless you then went on to argue that the UK has no city in which the British are less than 50%.

I didn't just 'argue' this. It is factually true.

It appears you are arguing that Indian people wouldn't mind high levels of immigration until it reaches 50%. Once it does, you agreed that they would mind.

Show me where I said this. I didn't, because it's absolute nonsense.

Why are you obsessed with what Indian people would think in an impossible world anyway? You keep coming back to it, as though it has some relevance.

Do you really feel that 50% is a magic on/off trigger?

Nope. I have no idea why you would think that.

Are you perhaps missing the point that Indians would still object to high levels of immigration if 37% of New Delhi and Islamabad's populations were foreign born?

37% of London's population is foreign born, with the foreign born population in inner London being 42%.

So you now agree about the fact that no British city has fewer than 50% British citizens? We're getting somewhere.

Originally posted by JuniorDisco

I agree.But that doesn't change the fact that there is no city in Britain where the British are in a minority. So I don't understand why you asked the question about people in India not wanting to be in a minority. What relevance does it have?

The point another poster was trying to make was that Indians wouldn't like to live the multicultural experience that London is going thorough.

You conceded that Indians wouldn't like it if more than 50% of residents were not Indian. London currently has a foreign born population of 37% (42% in inner London).

Originally posted by JuniorDisco

Fair enough. But you have no evidence to back up what you're saying. It's just vague conjecture on your part.

Not a single statement you have made on this thread has been backed up by any evidence.

Originally posted by JuniorDisco

Now you're just making stuff up. Where did I say this?

Here

You conceded that Indians wouldn't like it if foreign born residents were more than 50%.

reply to post by JuniorDisco

I don't care about the website's terms and conditions

That's unfortunate, because you run the risk of having your account closed down; and what a terrible loss to ATS that would be. *sarcasm off*

If you say that Britain is a "white country" you are a bigot. This is simply a matter of fact.

No, if I say something that is untrue it simply means I am mistaken, not a "bigot".

Again you persist with your unnecessary ad hominem attacks. Are you incapable of arguing your point without attacking people who disagree with it?

You know very well that Britain has been overwhelmingly a white country....at least since the last ice age. It's only since mass immigration got under way at the end of WW2 that the demographic makeup of the country has begun to change - but even now you would agree that whites make up the majority, so what's your beef?

England - traditionally white country
France - traditionally white country
Nigeria - traditionally black country
Pakistan - traditionally Asian country

That's how we roll here on Planet Earth.

some obscure and irrelevant set of principles that you've invented applies in "New Delhi and Islamabad" just shows the poverty of your position.

And still he skates around a very simple question; you're beginning to sound like a politician.

Ok, let's make it easier for you.

If mass immigration of mostly white people from around the world were to take place in New Delhi and Islamabad (the respective capital cities of India and Pakistan), do you think it would work?

Now, most people on this thread are quite sure about the answer to this. You are the only poster who claims ignorance - strange that, because you seem to be quite sure in your overall knowledge on this topic.

You know very well that it wouldn't work, which is why it's not happening over there.

But at any rate, it's not a level playing field.

When they accept mass immigration in the same way as London, Manchester, Birmingham, and all the major European cities, I'll eat my words.

What i would like to know is where are all the immigrants that never made it? The mentally ill ones and the one's living on the street's of London, because they can't get home as they have had their passports nicked?
What about the indiginous people of this country who have had breakdowns because they can't keep up with the shyte this stupid government keep throwing at them?
Put it all in one pot and is is one big mess. Something has got to give!

IT's no good the government trying to paint a pretty picture of it all and putting caps on immigration. It's too late!
Primark does well in Nigeria and i don't think they have even landed there yet lol I know of rows of houses owned by foreigners, charging extautionate rent. I won't go into detail, otherwise i might be labled racist and that i am not, but open your eyes people. We are being mugged off! ..... just an old saying! lol

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by JuniorDisco

Now you're just making stuff up. Where did I say this?

Here

You conceded that Indians wouldn't like it if foreign born residents were more than 50%.

That says nothing of the sort.

In that post you say you think Indians "would be less welcoming if they were a minority in their own cities" and I answer that there is no city in Britain where this is the case.

I make no comment whatsoever about what Indians would think. Indeed when you go on to say that...

"I could be wrong. But then so could you."

...I actually took pains to agree that you could be wrong. That we indeed don't know what Indians would think.

The post in fact says the opposite of what you claim it does.

Originally posted by ollncasino


The point another poster was trying to make was that Indians wouldn't like to live the multicultural experience that London is going thorough.

Agan you make a false equivalence. The India that you envisaged would not be going through "the muliticultural experience that London is going through", because British people are not in a minority in that city.

That's my point about the slyness of the question. It says that

- Indians wouldn't like to be outnumbered by immigrants

- Therefore Londoners must be outnumbered by immigrants

It starts from a false logical premise.

You conceded that Indians wouldn't like it if more than 50% of residents were not Indian. London currently has a foreign born population of 37% (42% in inner London).

See above. I did not.

Not a single statement you have made on this thread has been backed up by any evidence.

Point out a statement that is unfactual.

In any case I haven't had to, because several times you have introduced evidence that has backed up my point for me. eg "London currently has a foreign born population of 37% (42% in inner London)."

Originally posted by CJCrawley


That's unfortunate, because you run the risk of having your account closed down; and what a terrible loss to ATS that would be. *sarcasm off*

Perhaps you could get your dad to give me a ticking off as well?

Again you persist with your unnecessary ad hominem attacks. Are you incapable of arguing your point without attacking people who disagree with it?

Yes, as I've shown with every other poster. Because they aren't bigoted, at least not obviously. Whereas you are.

You know very well that Britain has been overwhelmingly a white country....at least since the last ice age. It's only since mass immigration got under way at the end of WW2 that the demographic makeup of the country has begun to change - but even now you would agree that whites make up the majority, so what's your beef?

England - traditionally white country
France - traditionally white country
Nigeria - traditionally black country
Pakistan - traditionally Asian country

That's how we roll here on Planet Earth.

Of course I know that most people who live and have lived in Britain have been white. What I was taking issue with was the notion that this therefore means that state of affairs should continue. "Tradition" is not in itself an argument to persist with something. Otherwise bear baiting would still be more popular than the cinema.

If mass immigration of mostly white people from around the world were to take place in New Delhi and Islamabad (the respective capital cities of India and Pakistan), do you think it would work?

Why wouldn't it? Western people are going in droves to India anyway - something like 200,000 work visas issued in Germany and the US alone in 2010. To put it in context that's more than a third of the total Indian people who live in London. In one year!

Now, most people on this thread are quite sure about the answer to this. You are the only poster who claims ignorance - strange that, because you seem to be quite sure in your overall knowledge on this topic.

I'm sure this thread is filled with erudite people, but their opinion on this is both irrelevant to the matter in hand and worthless, since the answer to the question is literally unknowable.

Explain to me why it is important what Indians and Pakistanis would feel about mass immigration into their countries. What relevance it actually has, logically, to what we are discussing.

You know very well that it wouldn't work, which is why it's not happening over there.

The reason mass immigration is not happening there has nothing to do with whether they want "whites" or not. It is purely economic.

When they accept mass immigration in the same way as London, Manchester, Birmingham, and all the major European cities, I'll eat my words.

Actually Delhi probably already has more immigrants than London. So better get eating.

reply to post by ollncasino


It's happening Europe wide unfortunately. Major European cities are becoming less and less ethnic. As immigrants come to a country, they flock to the cities. This often means the third world filth that they bring with them (crime) gathers in one place leaving the ethnic populace in a bind. Either stay in place risking a lot or move.

Most choose to move. Oslo has seen this in certain parts (the Grønland area) and in Malmø in Sweden. Mass immigration into these countries are killing them. I'm not against immigration at all, however I am against this forced mass immigration.

this post reminds me of what happened in jordan *i think*
where the population was mostly jewish then arab immigrants started to flock to jordan
to the point where there were more arabs than jews, so the arabs elected an arabs leader which placed sharia law *i think but i'm not sure* point being that most laws were biased towards jews where it was as if jordan had become an arab state rather than a jewish state.

i could be wrong though.

anyone?

reply to post by JuniorDisco

Because they aren't bigoted, at least not obviously. Whereas you are.

I'm obviously bigoted, am I?

The only bigoted poster on the thread, indeed.

Do feel free to provide evidence for this.

Not that it matters a jot whether I am or not, as we are supposed to be debating a topic

You seem hell bent on personal attacks and obfuscation - typical smokescreen tactics by pro-immigrationists when dealing with people who disagree with the great injustice of mass immigration.

Of course I know that most people who live and have lived in Britain have been white.

Oh you do! Oh excellent.

So Britain is a "white country" then?

Or am I still a "bigot"?

CJCrawley "If mass immigration of mostly white people from around the world were to take place in New Delhi and Islamabad (the respective capital cities of India and Pakistan), do you think it would work?"

Why wouldn't it?

Fail.

Must try harder.

Western people are going in droves to India anyway - something like 200,000 work visas issued in Germany and the US alone in 2010. To put it in context that's more than a third of the total Indian people who live in London. In one year!

Oh but they wouldn't be Indian people going back home, would they?

Difficult to know who's who any more.

Besides, it's small potatoes compared to the half million or so cramming into my tiny overcrowded country every year.

Explain to me why it is important what Indians and Pakistanis would feel about mass immigration into their countries.

Well, the distinct lack of a multicultural element in their society might cause one to question their enthusiasm, let's say.

Why aren't they multicultural?

And, more importantly, why do you think it's ok for them not to be?

The reason mass immigration is not happening there has nothing to do with whether they want "whites" or not. It is purely economic.

But India is a thriving economy!

One of the BRIC countries, has its own space programme, a middle income country with more billionaires than the UK.

No. Must be something else?

Actually Delhi probably already has more immigrants than London.

Oh, wouldn't you love that?

That would help your argument so much.

But sadly, unsupported by any evidence.

According to the wiki page on Delhi, the ethnicity is

.....Punjabi and Hindi.

I see uncontrolled diversity may be well on its way to destroying England like it has in the US. genetic diversity is good because it keeps the species healthy. cultural, religious and ideological diversity, without an overarching unifier, is always destructive.

That's actually a bit of an odd question when you see vast quantities of them weekly on the likes of *A place in the country*. London seem's to be the place to go when you are young to rake in the cash these days and probably has been since the 80's, after that you can pack up your money and run to buy a loverly home in the country where you will be lucky not to be despised by the populus due to perptuating the trend that denies it's own young an affordable place to buy a home where they were born and wish to raise their own families.

Maybe it's just my backward north of the Watford Gap mentality, but trully has anyone seriously seen London as as a good place to raise children or grow old in? Community is lacking everywhere these days, it's far too easy and lazy to lay the blame at the door of immigrants. Many of them have a true sense of community, it seem's to be purely us that allowed ours to go down the pan in an every man for himself fashion, a fashion fed by greedy consumerism and buying into a sense of being middle class and better than your neighbours. London's been slowly breeding that crap mentality for a God's age. It's a seething pot of writhing bodies, money and chaos. People from all over the world will always try to go to the place where the streets are supposedly laid with gold at least for a time, whilst those fortunate to have already made their pile will run a mile if given the chance.

Anyway,on a lighter note I thought most Asians plan to move to Blackpool at some point. Twinkly lights, donkeys, tack and swathes of idiot drunken tourists must be better than paradise. And no I'm not being racist, I do actually appreciate how they dig it so much.

Originally posted by CJCrawley

I'm obviously bigoted, am I?

The only bigoted poster on the thread, indeed.

I'm not certain of this. But I'm certain you're a bigot, yes.

Do feel free to provide evidence for this.

I already have.

You seem hell bent on personal attacks and obfuscation - typical smokescreen tactics by pro-immigrationists when dealing with people who disagree with the great injustice of mass immigration.

Where have I said I'm in favour of mass immigration? Where have I obfuscated? I've been specific about you and clear at every point in this discussion.

You on the other hand are busy erecting a straw man, and prattling on about what people in India might think in some theoretical universe of your own devising. And you have the nerve to accuse me of obfuscation.

Oh you do! Oh excellent.

So Britain is a "white country" then?

Or am I still a "bigot"?

That doesn't make Britain a "white" country. And yes, you are a bigot if you think it does.

CJCrawley "If mass immigration of mostly white people from around the world were to take place in New Delhi and Islamabad (the respective capital cities of India and Pakistan), do you think it would work?"

Why wouldn't it?

Fail.

Must try harder.

Good answer. Well done.

Note that if you have to write things like that it's usually a sign that you can't engage with the discussion. Which is usually a sign that you're wrong.

I'll ask again: why wouldn't it?

Oh but they wouldn't be Indian people going back home, would they?

No. Because then they wouldn't require a visa, would they?

Are you involved in an argument about migration without even the most basic knowledge of how it works?

Difficult to know who's who any more.

Besides, it's small potatoes compared to the half million or so cramming into my tiny overcrowded country every year.

Is it? There are only about half a million people of Indian origin in London and significant numbers were born here. So in fact it's not small potatoes at all.

Well, the distinct lack of a multicultural element in their society might cause one to question their enthusiasm, let's say.

Why aren't they multicultural?

And, more importantly, why do you think it's ok for them not to be?

They are probably more multicultural than you realise. Have you actually been to either of them? I suspect when you say "multicultural" you actually mean "why aren't there more white people there".

For economic reasons they have not until recently experienced large-scale immigration from Europe and the US. It has nothing to do with their attitude - an attitude you are pretending to know but which you seem strangely unable to give me any evidence for.

But India is a thriving economy!

One of the BRIC countries, has its own space programme, a middle income country with more billionaires than the UK.

No. Must be something else?

India is a growing economy, yes. And it is attracting more western immigrants.

Are you unaware of its recent economic history? Because if you are trying to argue that Delhi has been as rich as London for the last century then you are on very tough ground. Are you seriously trying to argue that immigrants don't come to Britain for economic reasons?

Your argument amounts to this. "Delhi and Islamabad don't have many white people per capita because the locals don't like white people. I know this because there aren't many white people there. India is as rich, if not richer than the UK, so their absence can't be for economic reasons".

This is utterly wrong. There is no other way to put it.

Oh, wouldn't you love that?

That would help your argument so much.

But sadly, unsupported by any evidence.

According to the wiki page on Delhi, the ethnicity is

.....Punjabi and Hindi.

So you can't be an immigrant if you share the same ethnicity or religion? Wow.

I imagine you don't mind most Eastern Europeans coming to Britain then? And since they make up the vast majority of the "half million" you mentioned earlier I'm not sure why you're employing that figure.

Answer me this: is a Bangaldeshi in India an immigrant? Because I have a feeling that your prejudice and lack of knowledge about other cultures is suggesting to you that in some way they are not. Whereas a Bangladeshi in London is, even if born there.

Originally posted by Suspiria

It's a seething pot of writhing bodies, money and chaos.

Yeah, but it has its bad points too.

Originally posted by JuniorDisco

Originally posted by Suspiria

It's a seething pot of writhing bodies, money and chaos.

Yeah, but it has its bad points too.

Mwahaha

reply to post by Suspiria


I feel that "community" is very much a misnomer in relation to immigration. You could say that where I live the Pakistanis and Romanians are a community, whereas most in this area see it as a ghetto, designed purposefully to isolate the women. There should not be communities within communities, integration should be the driving force behind any immigrants wish to go to another country, in order to become a valuable member of that community not create their own. To all intents and purposes a lot of our immigrants are no such thing, they are colonists plain and simple.

We now have such an open door policy that the scum of Europe are being allowed to settle here, after of course crawling across broken glass and 6 other countries to get here. No stopping at the 1st friendly country for them oh no must get to England and the free housing mobile phones and benefits. We have a huge problem with Romanian criminals and now added to the pot the Romanians are fighting against the Pakistanis for control of certain areas.
Romanian crime soars
www.express.co.uk...

There are places in Yorkshire where a white person seriously cannot go, and even the Sikhs are having problems with straying into Muslim areas.
I have friends in Denmark and Germany and is most disheartening to hear them say that the UK is the dustbin of Europe!

No amount of legislation and passing of laws will make cultures compatible with each other. If we were all so compatible we'd all be the same and diversity would disappear. Is that what the POTB want? A planet of robotic nobodies all believing the same acting the same and worshipping the same? Who knows

i don't even like admitting im British sometimes! It is embarrassing. What with the immigration issues, plus having this terrible government and an apathetic population who say ''what can you dooo?' One minute cameron wants us out of Europe, then in .... depending on the issues! My mind has been boggling for years, how we let it all get to all this. Our high streets are just # holes, no wonder people shop on line. Going shopping used to be an enjoyable experience, not now. Every one trying to rip each other off. Nowhere to park ... scared of getting a ticket. It's just nasty. I got a ticket in staples the other day for being 6 minutes late ... £90 and rising! Is staples and English company? doubt it. Chicken toe nails hanging up in halal shop windows! what is that? halal??? There seems no respect for being here. Chucking grease and fat down our drains ... don't matter it's only England!
No wonder you hardly see old people out and about anymore. They're terrified and i probably would be too after fighting in two world wars, for my country to end up like this. Everyone else is loosing the plot, getting into drink and heavy drugs, just to get through the day!

Cheerful soul aren't I? lol
Speak to people at grass roots level and that is just how it is!

Originally posted by phyllida
reply to post by Suspiria

 

No stopping at the 1st friendly country for them oh no must get to England and the free housing mobile phones and benefits.

As a matter of interest how much do you think a newly-arrived immigrant can claim in benefits?

We have a huge problem with Romanian criminals and now added to the pot the Romanians are fighting against the Pakistanis for control of certain areas.

And there are loads of white British criminals as well.

I know several Romanians and it's true that they are quite an insular community. But with attitudes like yours it's not all that surprising. Many of them are extremely hard working and strive to disassociate themselves from the minority of criminals. Certainly the ones I have encountered are working, paying tax, and tend to be better and more diligent than many English people I've worked with in similar roles.

There are places in Yorkshire where a white person seriously cannot go, and even the Sikhs are having problems with straying into Muslim areas.

Where? Name an area where a "white person cannot go".

No amount of legislation and passing of laws will make cultures compatible with each other. If we were all so compatible we'd all be the same and diversity would disappear. Is that what the POTB want? A planet of robotic nobodies all believing the same acting the same and worshipping the same? Who knows

The point of a multicultural society is that everybody is not the same! How dull England would be with no immigrants.