Not 'Hundreds'--DHS Released Over 2,000 Illegal Immigrants

reply to post by intrepid



If we can believe Carney.
Considering it's politics ... you never know.

Hopefully it really was all just nice lil' ol' family types that were let go
and not the heavy duty drug dealers and criminals released from
the Mexican jails.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by jibeho

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by jibeho
Funny, how no one is commenting on the difference between the White house "couple of hundred" to the reality of 5,000.

Dude, do you read your own sources?

The White House has said it was not consulted about the releases, and Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano has acknowledged they occurred in a manner she regrets.

DHS, not the WH.

Dude! Didn't Carney say this?

White House spokesman Jay Carney on Wednesday said the government had released "a few hundred

Carney = the official mouth piece for the White House. All in the same source

Right. Now read the part of YOUR source that is in my quote. It's basic logic. He wasn't informed. Napolitano says that.

Basic logic tells me not to believe a word based on the 4 years of this same type of garbage in the first term.

What a crock of BS and you know it. Just arguing for arguments sake eh? The White House was not informed? Every move is just as coordinated as the defense for it the when the move gets busted. This control obsessed administration has its finger on everything. They seem to even control your response... hmmmm..

Originally posted by jibeho
Just arguing for arguments sake eh?

Nope. I do it for the visitors. So they can see that there are still some people here that are still able to think. Maybe they'll join up. I don't care if I make a dent with any of you. That's impossible but maybe I can help others.

reply to post by intrepid


I get it. Wait a minute... You're from Canada... So your whole argument is moot... You don't have to live with Obama's BS everyday....I'm tired of the constant attempt to hoodwink our nation's gullible...

Good luck with your ATS membership campaign...

Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

Carney said the immigrants released were "low-risk, noncriminal detainees," and the decision was made by career ICE officials.

*snip*

The immigrants who were released still eventually face deportation and are required to appear for upcoming court hearings. But they are no longer confined in immigration jails, where advocacy experts say they cost about $164 per day per person. Immigrants who are granted supervised release — with conditions that can include mandatory check-ins, home visits and GPS devices — cost the government from 30 cents to $14 a day, according to the National Immigration Forum, a group that advocates on behalf of immigrants.

bigstory.ap.org...

I cant wait to see the expense for tracking the illegals down who dont bother going to court hearings, slip the gps ( which is not unheard of.. and they have to know that) and etc. I dont really believe that all of these measures will be taken in the first place to monitor them. I just retired from the PAs office here in my county... doesnt work like youd assume. Cant wait till they try these home visits with that amount of people at once. The majority of the time, mandatory check ins and etc.. they last for a very short time and they go noncompliant. With sex offenders here... almost impossible to track and expensive. To cut costs here, they allow a period of a reg sex offender being noncompliant and THEN doing a sweep. Obviously most are long gone by time that occurs. Removing a reg sex offender living in a place that looked onto the elementary school here took the state police and not local to address due to manpower problems. Just ONE case of that.. and I can list many. I guess the person "monitoring" him and doing "home visits" didnt see that huge elementary school in spitting distance. These are people who are beng "monitored" in similar manner as they are proposing for these folks they have released en masse. The manpower costs for GPS jumpers is going to figure in.. because people DO do this... and these days there is a market for those with the know how. This isnt foolproof by ANY means.. particularly when police manpower is low and stretched thin to begin with. Locally they couldnt even afford the gps tracking and etc with the damn equipment they were using on our overpass contruction to prevent its theft.. and were talking heavy equipment!
Speaking of GPS.. there was a HUGE snafu here with GPS with a cell phone given to a woman in the midst of a court case as an emergency device. She called screaming in the phone to the police. They responded by surrounding a house when the GPS info was blocks off from the persons actual location. Its not always as accurate as you are led to believe... or she was lead to believe.
ALso add in the cost for support and housing each of them will receive.


I imagine it will be a little more than 164.00 a day. If they want to cut down on per day incarceration costs for inmates, I can think of MANY people Id release that are easier to track and less likely to bolt or cause a greater burden on the system in the long run.

reply to post by Advantage


Lets just cut to the chase here, this was a purely politically motivated stunt, done just before the sequester cuts, so that it could all be blamed on the uncooperative republicans in congress.

It was an ill conceived stunt, because it is backfiring on the administration and they are trying to distance themselves from it now.

Simple enough?

Originally posted by ausername
reply to post by Advantage

 

Lets just cut to the chase here, this was a purely politically motivated stunt, done just before the sequester cuts, so that it could all be blamed on the uncooperative republicans in congress.

It was an ill conceived stunt, because it is backfiring on the administration and they are trying to distance themselves from it now.

Simple enough?

Simple enough?? Grow up... Im well aware of the sequester excuse that was used and WILL BE used concerning cuts in manpower. I dont have to rehash it as its already been addressed in this thread and numerous others. I was responding specifically to Intrepid's ( WHO I QUOTED) article concerning how they were to track and monitor the folks they released. It it simple enough for you to realize that they are already released and now it comes to enforcing the things they claim they can do... and the fact that it will be more expensive than the savings of 164 a day that was offered in the article?

Im so sick of those not capable of having an adult discussion.. Im just responding to them as they respond to me anymore.

reply to post by Advantage


I'll have my hat for lunch now, thank you.

Good day to you, nonetheless.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
So.. What happened to command level people taking the fall for the utter failures of their subordinates? Janet should take a fall on this (If she really didn't know something so important, happening in her own Department) and I think Obama owes the nation at least a passing acknowledgement that accountability for action completely broke down here.

By that logic Bush is responsible for 911. I don't think anyone in this thread will go there.

As to the detainees, the source I provided said that they were "non-criminal" prisoners. Basically their crime is being in the country illegally.

No one needs or wants to go into Bush and 9/11 as a 9/11 event..outside the forum for the purpose of course.

Excepting the very unique nature and circumstances though ..and looking at it as strictly a collasal failure during a given President's watch? Of course it was his fault in that clear sense. Everything that happens beneath a President IS ultimately that President's fault or credit ...where it's happened within the Executive Branch and agencies.

I'm just fine with expressing that fault by firing the subordinate most responsible for the screw up. I don't say the President need personally take the fall for underling mistakes. It is getting old though when NO ONE...high OR low..takes the fall for anything. Screw ups still happen, as this may have been. It's the lack of anyone being pinned for them that seems to have changed.

Great. So we release non-violent, ILLEGAL immigrants to pollute our nation further, while we still keep our non-violent LEGAL CITIZENS locked up. Bravo Obama. Is the integrity and security of our nation worth a few bucks? And even then, why release the illegal immigrants before U.S citizens? Just doesn't make sense. I know it's federal and state, but come on. You can't tell me they didn't drop the ball on this one. I'll tell ya man, the things these crooks do without our consent. Every bill or order or law or anything should have to pass a popular vote by the people. I'm sick of the crooks for telling us what we want to hear just to get in office, and I'm even more disgusted by the people that listen and vote. Just one time, for ANY election, I would like to see NOBODY vote. This democracy is broken as is, so why still put faith in the people that run it?

reply to post by ThePeopleUnited

That's a whole different aspect that hadn't even occurred to me. Without even mentioning the T&C related, most obvious example of non-violent people being incarcerated, there are A LOT of others aren't there? Hmmm.. There are plenty of white collar criminals for instance. (Since we have to stay at the federal level for prisons to keep a viable comparison), and gross tax offenders who actually get prison sentences. There are plenty of fraud convicts too. Why give all of those people 3 free meals a day they don't have to earn? Make sure they're truly broke, where guilty and appropriate, and put them out before the illegal 'non-violent'. let them go hit the halfway house or whatever, rather than what I understand is quite a HIGH price to keep federal inmates by the day.

Very good point!

I saw pictures of some of the prisoners that were being released, and it seemed very odd to me. The people were all young Hispanics, carrying their little bags of belongings, and wearing shabby clothes, and they all looked scared. They were being marched through tall grass out in the middle of nowhere, and in pitch dark, like they were being taken somewhere secretly during the night. They were being herded along by men on horseback and there were no lights like a city or anything showing in the pictures. Just the prisoners marching along in the dark, and out through the grass to "nowhere". Obviously, reporters were there to take pictures, but it didn't even show a lot of those. If they are being released, why weren't they coming out of a building somewhere, and walking off , and why not in daylight ? Where were they taking them, and why ?

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

The problem is, when they've made these millions upon millions of criminals legal ...what happens with the one who swims the river the DAY AFTER that is passed? The week after? it's all about giving and handing out to those already here ...while they are blinded to the PROBLEM we will have as much after, as we do now. They never stop coming ...so what do we do? Open the borders 100% and freely....as no nation in the world has or will do? (For damn good reasons, I might add) or promise each other that we really really really will do something about enforcement...right after we give free passes to everyone already here?

After you grant them amnesty, acknowledge their presence, give them fair wages, benefits, and safe working conditions - which kind of defeats the purpose for why they are actively recruited to come across undocumented and take those sub-standard jobs and conditions - THEN they can be ignored, passed-by, and treated like any legitimate American resident trying to make a fair and honest living.

IF these undocumented immigrant workers truly were not wanted in the US and the political gas-passing about taking steps to keep them out was not just a bunch of hooey, then Americans must face facts that their information technology is backwards, unsophisticated, and still in the stone ages compared to more technologically advanced countries, like Mexico, where unauthorized immigrants cannot obtain legitimate employment or government services without the proper authorizing credentials issued by immigrations services.

Blame them for your economic woes if it helps you make it through your day feeling superior, legitimate, blessed, and truly wanted in your home country but it is your politicians, corporate leaders, and anyone willing to hire them for cheap labor that are feeding you a crock of crap claiming they are truly wanting to keep them out of the country. Efforts to stop those immigrants are just a show put on for your benefit and for your vote but are otherwise meaningless.

Those workers come from a place where the work is hard, the pay is low, working conditions are tough, and benefits are few. Most of them have a good work ethic, are not lazy, will not complain about getting dirty, and are thankful to make the kind of money offered them there. Many of the services in their country are cheaper by a factor of 8 to 10 or so - wages as well - and the money they can take back home will go a long way in taking care of their families. Few benefits are offered for free by their countries and people are thought to be lazy or stupid if they do not go stand in line and sign-up for those benefits when they are offered to them, which is why you see them taking advantage of the programs offered in the US - considering a visit to a doctor's office costs under $3 in their home country compared to how much in the US without insurance (?) it is no wonder they will take advantage of what is offered to them.

And yes, they are being actively recruited to cross the border to go work there. Many if not most of them have promises of jobs with seemingly great pay before they even consider leaving home to travel into the US just on a whim they can cross over into an unknown land, deal with the cultural and language barriers, find their way, and make all the right contacts when they arrive. Only the young and adventurous who have big dreams and little or no prospects at home are willing to take on such bold challenges without promises beforehand.

A few decades back in time those migrant workers could easily get their proper visas to go perform those tasks most American workers mostly refused to do. Then came minimum wage laws, OSHA regulations, farm labor unions, and other workers' rights actions that made it more desirable to have undocumented workers performing those task without all the legal bureaucratic rigamarole afforded legitimate workers. When a worker has to present a phoney Social Security number in order to get a job and have that deducted from their pay, who ultimately complains when thousands of workers pay into that system and never draw the benefits out?

reply to post by Erongaricuaro

There are any number of arguments that are emotionally based and hypothetical to what we'd like to see vs. what actually is and has happened.

Specifically for what I mean there is how we'd like to think employers up here are recruiting these illegals for who THEY are or their work ethic or their ethnicity itself. Phooey...
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They're recruited by scumbag employers (Who NO ONE is enforcing diddly on.... Bush and Obama have both done token efforts) up here specifically because they CAN be exploited and generally must suffer it in silence. Substandard wages, company supplied housing at exorbitant costs (I've seen that in the produce country of California) and more to get max labor for minimal outlay. That doesn't even count the crap like "Rape Trees" and crossing the desert with human predators to get here.

Perhaps if employers suffered DEARLY and MEANINGFULLY for hiring and recruiting illegals, it really would reduce it. I'm 100% for that approach too. Make the penalties so severe, it's not worth the loss of profit to even risk it ....and use the fine money to offset public benefit/schooling costs of the illegals who are here.
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When amnesty has been granted to every one of the illegals currently here, the employers will no longer need OR want them. Why? They'll be able to outright demand the same wage, treatment and conditions as any full American citizen. All the draw of using them is gone ...and the biggest problem is here. The NEXT WAVE of illegals necessarily comes to fill the void the previous illegals had served...before becoming full rate labor.

It's not even guessing. This has happened before in this nation and in the same set of choices. That was Reagan and Congress wrangling over immigration and what amounted to an amnesty in 1986. That was supposed to be a two part deal where enforcement would come second to seal the obvious problem to the whole plan as I listed above.
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There are some estimates that put the number of criminal aliens here as high as 20 million or more. I'm realistic enough to know that no 'one size fits all' like straight deportation can possibly cover every one of them.

Until enforcement is in place, strong and WORKING though? NOTHING ELSE IS VIABLE. It's all a warped joke without control at the entry point.....Enough with this having to completely guess at how many are even here. We're suffering record unemployment. The numbers DO matter now more than normal times, as it happens.

We're unique in the world for having a declared policy SO far out of control to the reality.