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posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 01:35 AM
reply to post by MagicWand67

Point taken,
But what for what reason would geoengineering be beneficial, and why keep it a secret if it's really going on ?

posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 01:48 AM
reply to post by Raffles

why keep it a secret if it's really going on ?

Because they are still conducting tests on its effects.

There is no way to know what the long term negative impacts are.

They keep it a secret in case something goes wrong and people would demand that they stop.

They would be blamed and sued by all kinds of countries, industries and people for loss income or property.


The testing and deployment of climate remediation technologiesisintended to have beneficial impacts on climate . .The consequences of climate remediation activities, however, are likely to transcend national boundaries . .Climate remediation research, therefore, implicitly hasinternational ramifications . . Because unilateral actions by one or more individual countries could have far-reaching consequences, early effortsto engage other major nations and to launch an international dialogue on relevant policy issues are essential . .The United States must play a pivotal role in this process

edit on 4-3-2013 by MagicWand67 because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 01:51 AM
reply to post by MagicWand67

I asked you for sources. You provided none. Mind if I offer something?

Here's a 1996 study which covers exactly what we are talking about.

The right engine burnt a fuel with very high sulfur content S of 5500 ppm. Higher than the specificaion limit of 3000 ppm, about 10 times larger than the average value of 420 ppm, and 32 times larger than the left engine (170) ppm.

The study finds differences in the contrails which are formed by each engine. Among them, this for the high sulfur fuel:

6) a slight reduction in optical thickness of contrails after the first kilometer and earlier contrail evaporation

The high sulfur contrails evaporated sooner than the low sulfur contrails. Interesting.

edit on 3/4/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 02:00 AM
reply to post by Phage

What section was your cherry picked quote taken from?

I would like to actually see it in the correct context.

Forgive me of I don't just take your word for it.

That may be the case regarding extra sulfur in the fuel.

What altitude were these studies conducted at?

What was the atmospheric conditions?

And as recommended in the Aurora cost efficiency report, sulfuric acid would be injected into the exhaust gases. Similar to an after burner.


4.2.4 Thrust Augmentation via Sulfuric Acid Injection


In the case of the present system, a significant quantity of sulfuric acid will be stored on the aircraft and ejected into the atmosphere during flight. This liquid could be injected into the engine to provide additional thrust at high altitudes to combat thrust lapse. As discussed in the previous section elevated sulfur content is detrimental to engine component life, and consequently traditional liquid injection techniques (compressor inlet injection) would not be appropriate for this system. However, some thrust augmentation may be realizable by injecting the sulfuric acid downstream of the turbine, in a manner similar to a modern afterburner. By this approach, to achieve thrust increases the turbine exhaust gases must be hot enough to vaporize the sulfuric acid

edit on 4-3-2013 by MagicWand67 because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-3-2013 by MagicWand67 because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-3-2013 by MagicWand67 because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 02:02 AM
reply to post by MagicWand67

rereading my post will help you to see the error in yours.
the same hand,,, you dig
thanks......................... Painfulhead

posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 02:09 AM
Try this - in a Bing or Google window type stratospheric sulfate aerosol and or geoengineering. There are literally TONNES of very good info and NOTHING is being hidden. It's getting rather old seeing folks freaking out when they can read for themselves and research it easily.

Try these I found:

Explains pretty much the back info and leading into some basic info about delivery systems etc. and maybe a faint word or two about negative consequences and ethics. As usual read for yourself and follow links that led to REPUTABLE information. Disregard crap links, tho I didn't find any on this wiki.

This led me to here:
where they DID explain more about the geoengineering and possible positive and negative effects in the science.

If you look further there are also links available for employment in the field so...get going if you WANT TO KNOW!

edit on 4-3-2013 by Opportunia because: grammar oops

posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 02:12 AM
reply to post by inverslyproportional

my last reply before its nite nite for Painful is for you sir ..
thanks for your words and honest portrait of your self and others. your subject feelings and mine are similar and this means we will exchange again...
bravo ............... Painfulhead
edit on 4-3-2013 by Painfulhead because: spelling

posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 02:15 AM
reply to post by Painfulhead

I guess I am confused.


posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 02:29 AM
reply to post by MagicWand67

Oh, so you added that to the list. A typical "chemtrail" crowd tactic, move the goal posts. Lets back up to where this started.

Because moisture in the air is absorbed better by certain substances than others. Particularly substances like sulfur dioxide.

So now "chemtrails" are persistent not because of hygroscopic CNN, but because of sulfuric acid being dispersed.

But this is vaporizing the sulfuric acid. I thought the persistence was because of the CNN produced by burning high sulfur fuel. Are you telling me that sulfuric acid molecules are large enough to act as condensation nuclei?

But you still haven't explained why the ice which is presumably condensing on the sulfuric acid molecules and freezing would not sublimate.

edit on 3/4/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 02:29 AM
reply to post by Phage

I asked you for sources. You provided none

Maybe none you actually looked at.

I provided 3 sources. The original paper by Mr Gaskill

and 2 different wikipedia entries.

posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 02:30 AM
reply to post by MagicWand67

I provided 3 sources. The original paper by Mr Gaskill

and 2 different wikipedia entries.

I must have missed the one which explained why the ice crystals wouldn't sublimate.

posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 02:34 AM
reply to post by Phage

Oh, so you added that to the list. A typical "chemtrail" crowd tactic, move the goal posts.

Look who's talking. I've seen you edit your posts when you were called out and corrected on the crap you post.

Sorry if you can't keep up to speed. But that's not my fault you try to swallow more than you can chew and have too much on your plate.

I'll get back to comment after I read the link you posted.

edit on 4-3-2013 by MagicWand67 because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 02:40 AM
reply to post by MagicWand67

I've seen you edit your posts when you were called out and corrected on the crap you post.

Yes. I edit my posts. But not after a reply has been posted. I see that you do some editing too.
That's not the same as moving goalposts.

But that's not my fault you try to swallow more than you can chew and have too much on your plate.

Explain why sulfuric acid vapor leads to persistent contrails. Explain why hygroscopic CNN lead to persistent contrails. Why that ice is so special that it doesn't sublimate. You've chewed but not swallowed that yet.

edit on 3/4/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 03:29 AM

Originally posted by MagicWand67
reply to post by Chadwickus

Then they constantly says

"Go fly a plane and collect a sample"

As if,
, it were so simple. Knowing full well it's completely impossible to arrange a flight with the equipment needed on such short notice.

How is short notice relevant?

There are persistent contrails all over hte world almost every day of the year, and you can predict them in advance to some degree.

The numerous lies about predicting contrails when it is clearly an imperfect science that has so many flaws even NASA needs school kids to be spotters for them.

What lies? And why wouldn't NASA use school kids to help refine the science? Science isn't like a chemtrail hoax - you can't just pull info from your posterior and say it is true - you actually have to have data, you have to examine it, and show why the conclusions match the data.

Any system to predict things that were wrong as often as the Appleman chart is would normally be rejected by science. Yet the persistent contrail crowd tries to treat it as the holy grail of weather anomalies.

Not at all - the inaccuracies of the Appleman chart are well known. It was a good attempt for the time - 1953 - but we now know that the actual variables that matter for contrail formation are Humidity with respect to water, and humidity with respect to ice. The Appleman chart tried to predict with temperature and humidity - which is sometimes a close surrogate - but often not.

I could go on and on about the tactics of lies and disinformation used by chemtrail deniers.

Pick any tactic on the disinformation checklist and they use them all.

As opposed to the outright lie that "contrails only last a few minutes at moist", or "rainwater should not contain aluminium"?? And you complaining above about the difficulty of arranging testing "at short notice" - which is completely irrelevant??

It doesn't matter what "dirty tricks" you think debunkers use - the fact remains there is simply not 1 single piece of credible evidence supporting the existence of chemtrails, and there never has been.

Go right ahead - I've already shown that your objection to the Appleman chart is well known and it is not a "holy grail" of anyone except deniers short on facts to support their claim.

Here's something that is better than the Appleman Chart -

how you like them apples?

edit on 4-3-2013 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 03:43 AM
reply to post by Phage

Phage, do you think any geoengineering is going on ?
Opportunia posted some quite compelling evidence in his post.

I was totally convinced chemtrails where nothing but a hoax, until i read his post.

Now i'm like .. i dunno ..

posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 04:58 AM

off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 05:11 AM

Originally posted by Painfulhead
My introduction to the whole topic of Chemtrails came from watching “Don’t talk about the Weather”. I must say I thought it was crazy talk, yet that same day I myself noticed for the first time the same sky as was talked about in the film (You tube video). That night I called my brother, he is the sane voice I often turn to and he told me about ATS and prompted me to sign up. That date was February 24 2011.
I was feeling sick from the whole idea of the films premise. I was a very excited new member of ATS and jumped right on to a Chem thread and made a comment. In hind sight I wish I would have read a few of the older threads to better prepare myself for what was to come. Any member that has read these threads knows with out me saying that these are some of the hottest threads on ATS. I was totally overwhelmed by this experience and never imagined the kind and way that members would respond. The whole grabbing of little chunks of members post and responding with a cut and paste collage of nit picking was new to me. Spelling grammar and anything else used to instigate and flame members. I am a crap speller and a slow ass on the keyboard. So all of this threw me off and flew over my head. Embarrassed and kind of pissed I stopped posting for the most part right then. I never stopped visiting ATS daily and have read a good portion of most Chem treads since. I have heard both sides and digested the info as best I could.
All that being said there are still things about this topic that leave me swaying on the most uncomfortable of fence posts. Most of these thing I cant argue because there is little to no actual facts to back up these oddities. Most skeptics wont facts and this I totally understand.

Things that strike me as odd

I find that websites that debunk chemtrails have much more expensive looking web pages. Why is this odd? I don’t know for sure. Seems right that the people that would want to keep something like this quite would have more money at their disposal. Also seems right that grass roots whistle blowers wouldn’t have as much capital.

This might bring the heat but wouldn’t it be smart to head off any interest in the topic before people start to dig. My own story shows how effective this would be.

The Statuesque.
If the powers that be know something we don’t then keeping every thing running till the last second would be desirable. I have always felt that more important then money is knowledge, and who would have first bibs on knowledge? The rich. These crazies don’t think short term they think long term. If I was one I ,while no one was looking, would build underground bases for my bloodline, build an ark of all the seeds and animals. I would even store some seamen and eggs so a hundred years from now I could go back to a purer blood line from days gone by. (I know crazy talk)
Sky watching
Ever since that day in February I have watched and shook my fist at the sky. The sudden stop or sputter of the ’trail’. some jets leaving a trail and the next not. Two jets flying in close flight paths one with one with out. The crazy way that these trails fan out or apeir to cascade down like slow rain.

Wtf. All I can do is look at the floor and shrug my shoulders

I know that all of this add up to nothing and therefore is utter speculation.
I know that science has the upper hand when it come to FACTS
I know there are photos from years gone by of lingering contrails
I know I am inviting reticule and laughter
I know I will probable disappear again, maybe this time humiliated.

I can only hope to reemerge as a stead fast mind made up CHEMTRAIL DEBUNKER.
Thanks and yes I will take my medicine now……………… Painfulhead

as with all these operations, a large effort goes into the cover-up and disinformation
aspects. once you observe the trailing with your own eyes, there is no going back.
i have said it before, but those who consistently put effort into the constant debunking
of the reality of chemical trailing are agents. and ATS has its fair share, malheureusement.
you will find these same people have the same stagnant, non-conspiratorial stances
on most controversial issues, even the glaringly obvious ones. but remember, there are
also layers of disinformation and gatekeeping built into their treacherous schemings.
so far but no further, being the idea.

i notice an uprise in the number of planes leaving intermediate length trails (whith disappear
quickly). is there some arse-covering going on?

the other day, clear and bright at about 3pm, i could look straight at
the sun for a prolonged period without pain or effort. they are transforming our atmosphere
for what exactly, is still the big question?

posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 06:40 AM

off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 07:11 AM
reply to post by Painfulhead

Hi I have posted this link on other chemtrail threads.

That shows 24 hours of flights world wide in 1 minute of video.

I have 3 main airports and 1 small airport within a 35 mile radius of were I live, I have watched aircraft as a young boy in the late 60's till the present day what has change the most, the number of flights.
When I was young very few of my friends or family went on a plane now many have 2-3 holidays a year overseas or like myself may have 10-20 business flights in a year.

Flights flying over head can be watched with this Flightradar24

Here is a screenshot taken a few days ago with an aicraft selected in red with the details of the plane and flight on the left.

Now as for CONTRAILS how they forum depends of a few things.

Depending on the temperature and humidity at the altitude the contrail forms, they may be visible for only a few seconds or minutes, or may persist for hours and spread to be several miles wide

So unless you have the details of the conditions at the altitude the plane is at you cannot know if a contrail should or shouldn't form.

So as for one plane with and one without contrails you don't know the conditions around both planes.

posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 07:26 AM
reply to post by Painfulhead

Here's how to be a chemtrail debunker...

1) Have some common sense. (and be sure to know the difference between chemtrails and that's the kicker)...

2) Realize that IF someone was really trying to dose the populace, they'd also be doping themselves, their kids, their loved ones, etc.

3) If number 2 wasn't enough to convince you of its absurdity, then go back to number 1. If you did that, and still get back here to number 3, then go to number 4.

4) Realize that the amount of personnel who would have to be in on it is so vast and enormous (from ground and flight crews, to every paper pusher in the entire industry, that applying the rule of number 1, should then convince you how absurd the chemtrail argument is. If you're really determined then go to number 5.

5) If you STILL think we're being dosed, then face it, you're screwed, and there's nothing you can do about it anyhow, so lock yourself in the basement, secure your tin foil hat, and type up a manifesto or two....

edit on 4-3-2013 by Gazrok because: (no reason given)

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