I want to be a CHEMTRAIL DEBUNKER

Originally posted by bluestorm
reply to post by wmd_2008

 

really, okay that explains everything, thanks for clearing up the years of debate and personal observations on this subject, i feel so much better knowing the truth

I don't understand. The facts that have been presented in no way discredit anything you have seen, they only solidify WHY you see what you see. Do you just really, really want to think someone is out to get you?

reply to post by Phage


they sometimes fly through the sky and sporadically leave persistent contrails here and there then later coming back through to touch up areas where they missed, slow and steady instead of dropping big huge obvious lines across the sky, sneaky if one isnt paying attention, but obvious if one is...

reply to post by Painfulhead

Yes this is a hard one to answer with to much certainty but would it cover half or all or would 40 miles be a small bit of the sky?

Pretty easy to answer. How's your trig?

Angular size of 40 miles at a distance of 26,000 feet is about 152º. Pretty near horizon to horizon. Not a "small bit" of sky.

reply to post by network dude


i think geoengineering is more than a concept ,and we are not being told and personally im not against geoengineering but i want whole truth not this obvious illusion..

reply to post by bluestorm

then later coming back through to touch up areas where they missed,

Sure they do.

Originally posted by bluestorm
reply to post by network dude

 

i think geoengineering is more than a concept ,and we are not being told and personally im not against geoengineering but i want whole truth not this obvious illusion..

edit on 5-3-2013 by bluestorm because: (no reason given)

and that is a perfectly reasonable theory. As long as everyone understands that until proven otherwise, it's still just a theory.

I swear we are close to fixing this confusion.

reply to post by Painfulhead

I want to be a CHEMTRAIL DEBUNKER

Debunking is the process by which fact is separated from fiction. If you are searching for the truth, it is a necessity to be a "DEBUNKER". Unfortunately, most "chemtrailers" will deny that as being the ABSOLUTE TRUTH!

See ya,
Milt

reply to post by bluestorm

they sometimes fly through the sky and sporadically leave persistent contrails here and there then later coming back through to touch up areas where they missed, slow and steady instead of dropping big huge obvious lines across the sky, sneaky if one isnt paying attention, but obvious if one is...

I do not wish to incite your wrath, so understand that I am trying to help.

Phage seems to have lost his patience, and I can't say that I totally blame him.

But you are a really good person that is really close to freeing themselves from this crap that has been torturing you for so long. I want to see things change for you.

You have to understand the ramifications of what you are suggesting, and then weigh that against the simple science that these folks, I call then the 'Midnight Crew', are offering to you as an explanation for what you are seeing.

The idea of these pilot's spraying 'Chemtrails', and simultaneously keeping quiet about it while still being concerned enough to be 'sneaky', is way more baroque and complicated than, say, humidity and temperature diff's at different altitudes.

I know that you might feel as though you are giving something up, and you are, but what you are giving up is an 800lb gorilla that has been keeping you down. You may not be ready to give up the Gorilla, but I just wanted to be here in case you do.

Keep asking questions, you are doing great. Don't allow the Midnight Crew to spin you out so that you get banned. That will make you feel worse, and it will only re-inforce the Gorilla.

I promise you they are telling you the truth.

It's going to be ok.






P.S. Ok, I know you guys are dying for it; check my signature.

reply to post by Bybyots


sometimes knowledge is a burden and ignorance is bliss, i know its easier to forget what im seeing but i will keep my gorilla for now, thanks for the kind message

Originally posted by Painfulhead
reply to post by Phage

 

Could you give me you best thoughts on how long 40 miles would appear from ground level looking up to 26 thousand feet?
Yes this is a hard one to answer with to much certainty but would it cover half or all or would 40 miles be a small bit of the sky? Best guess.

Here's a page that shows you how far away various distances are when viewed from the ground - it includes this grid, as well as many "worked examples":



Forgot to include teh alititude of the gridlines is given as "6 miles up" - which is about 30-31,000 feet

Originally posted by bluestorm
reply to post by flyswatter

 

my eyes tell me its a cloud that is undeniably formed by the spraying of persistent contrails or what ever one wants to call them, my eyes tell me that there is less sun making it to the earth and my skin because of this, it doesnt take a scientist to make these observations, and it should not take a scientist to be able to discuss it either, whats is wrong with ats, im newer here but almost everything i see written smacks logic in the head?...

I've never argued that persistent contrails can and do block the sun at times; only a fool would try to make that claim. The issues begin when someone is using "only their eyes" and makes the claim that they are sure that the trails are "chemtrails" instead of contrails. The fact is that using your eyes, you simple do not know.

Observations like you have made are a great starting point, but it requires more than that to have any sort of proof for chemtrails.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


So looking at this it would seem that 40 miles is no where near horizon to horizon.
Or am I not seeing this correctly?
Thanks……………….Painfulhead

Originally posted by ShotCaller
People making claims that can't be supported by credible evidence, you say? Yeah...that's the tactics you both use.

Yeah - that is why I link to articles and papers.....and chemmies do not...

Your sources are "credible" and everyone else's is false.

I don't think everyone else's sources are false - in most cases chemmie sources simply do not exist - they have made up the information to jsutify the hoax! But where sources are presented they deserve proper analysis.

Do you have any actual sources??

A source is as good as it is - if it presents data, shows how the conclusions are made from analysis of the data then I give it a great deal more credence than someone saying "we all know that contrails do not last more than a few minutes" without any evidence to back up the claim.

Who's the one outting themselves? All that "quoting" and you didn't even bother to answer the questions, simply because: you have no answer as to how long they should "persist" for. Better go check your manual. It's probably on page 1776.

the answer has been given many times on ATS - sorry you missed them all.

Contrails persist for exactly as long as atmospheric conditions allow them to.

This may be seconds, minutes hours or conceivably even days.

This page discusses the conditions and frequency of contrail persistence

This paper from 1972 notes that they sample contails up to an hour old.

This abstract notes up to 17 hours

Originally posted by Painfulhead
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

So looking at this it would seem that 40 miles is no where near horizon to horizon.
Or am I not seeing this correctly?
Thanks……………….Painfulhead

The answer is, I think.."it depends"!

20 miles eitehr side of directly overhead spans quite a lot of sky that someone might describe as "horizon to horizon" - but 40 miles from 60-100 miles is obviously nothing like it.

If you get a chance check out this Operation Popeye

If they can do this during the Vietnam War, imagine what they can do now. We live in a very strange world. Keep on doing research because research is the only thing that will allow you to find the truth and as we all know, the truth will set you free. Thanks! Good Post.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

The math shows that 40 miles would stretch 152º directly overhead.

But using the description from the pilot's report really isn't any indication of how long the contrail persisted anyway. In addition to differing atmospheric conditions at a given flight level you need to consider that the contrail would not start forming until the favorable altitude was reached. We know the contrail started when the plane reached the appropriate altitude or hit appropriate conditions. Presumably that occurred 40 miles before pilot noted the contrail following him.

Also, consider the speed at which the plane would have been flying. It wasn't flying at 600mph. The plane that set the altitude record in 1916 had a maximum speed of 77mph. Flying at that altitude would have reduced the efficiency of an internal combustion engine so the plane probably wouldn't be able to fly that fast that high but let's give "our" pilot the benefit of the doubt and say he was flying at 100 mph, just for the heck of it. The end of the contrail would have been formed 24 minutes behind him.

Planes have produces long lasting, spreading contrails ever since they have flown high enough to do so.

reply to post by 1337s0lja

Cloud seeding has nothing to do with "chemtrails".

Originally posted by 1337s0lja
If you get a chance check out this Operation Popeye

If they can do this during the Vietnam War, imagine what they can do now.

there was nothing particularly technologically advanced about Operation Popeye - and since then weather modification for warfare has actually been outlawed by international convention - to which the US is a signatory and ratified in 1980.

You can write to Weather Modification Inc (it is a real company) and ask them all about cloud seeding, or look it up on google and wikipedia.

There are cloud seeding operations in many places around het world - the Thai's are very proud that their King actually holds a patent fo a particular method.

reply to post by Phage


thats exactly what they do, they also are known to make the trails 10 miles + into the mountains where you cant see them being made and letting them float into the more populated flat areas of my state unsuspectingly

Originally posted by bluestorm
reply to post by Phage

 

thats exactly what they do, they also are known to make the trails 10 miles + into the mountains where you cant see them being made and letting them float into the more populated flat areas of my state unsuspectingly

Ok, so they make trails in the mountains that then drift to where you are in the valley.

There is still nothing to say that those are anything other than normal contrails. Neither side can be absolutely sure, and anyone claiming otherwise is a fool.