Novus Ordo Seclorum - Novae Tabulae - E PLURIBUS UNUM - Implicatio

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posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 05:43 PM
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Symbols are neither arbitrary and ambiguous, unless you are misinterpreting them. They do have multiple levels of meaning. I was not giving my own view of the meanings of the triangle. I consulted the source of masonic pages explaining the connections to Osiris, Isis and Horus. This is a common theme running the course of most Masonic authored books that I have read. Seems to be neither arbitrary or ambiguous.


Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by OutonaLimb
 

What you and Enoch don't seem to understand is that symbols are arbitrary and ambiguous; no symbol has a single, fixed, or exclusive meaning. Symbolic meanings differ depending on culture, temporal context, and personal knowledge. The eye within triangle can also represent the characteristics of God, the Holy Trinity, and so on. What a symbol means to you or anyone does not mean it means that with everyone else.

Far too many try to reduce everything down to some sexual context and demonizes it as such. Such behavior is demeaning and ignorant.




posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 05:48 PM
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Attacking those who hold a faith in something openly is not nearly as meaningful as providing context around your reasoning against. Tell us why you connect those who profess faith in Christ as nutters.


Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
THIS LINK


Is from a bunch of Jesus-nutters and has nothing to do with your misunderstanding of Latin.



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 05:54 PM
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Originally posted by EnochWasRight
Tell us why you connect those who profess faith in Christ as nutters.


I connect with nuttery the ones who happen to feel the need to lie to prove a certain point. There is a rather lengthy thread I authored that addresses religious zealotry and its hypocrisy, feel free to ask your questions there.

People who claim to be Christian who lie to prove a point are not really Christians, they are just liars.



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 05:57 PM
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Very interesting perspective. You are one of the few here participating in a discussion of the OP directly. I have a verse to go along with this:

Revelation 6

15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us[f] from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their[g] wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”

I am not thinking they will be laughing much while they breath in their life support.

Also, Carbon has 6 protons, 6 electrons and 6 neutrons. It is the mark of mankind and the mark of our technology. Our technology is the fruit of knowledge. The apple we took kills the oxygen and nitrogen cycle. Oxygen has 7 protons, 7 electrons and 7 neutrons. Oxygen is 888. Both God and Jesus have connections within the word of God to these two numbers. The breath they give is overcome by the carbon, yet Jesus says this:

Matthew 24

22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.

Faith has a hope.


Originally posted by NeoVain
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


I´m sorry i was with you until this part




The final definition: A New Nobility to set In Order what is Cut.


Complete bollocks. it is "

Novus - New, fresh, young. A field reploughed. Political change and revolution. New account books.

Ordo - Line up. Order. Rank. Politically and socially, an order, rank, class; senatorius, or amplissimus, the senatorial body. The body of knights.

Sec - Sever, separate, disassemble.
Lorum - What holds something together, like a leatherstrap, but also like bracers, a bottle, or even EARTH(Holds ecosystem together).


A new way of life when we sever the Earth from it´s ecosystem.

Complete tyrrany to survive by murdering for oxygen for the few that survive..

A world ruled by the few with foreknowledge and instant access to oxygen, as well as a pressurised chamber where he will live out the last of his days as the last surviving human. He will laugh good before he die.
edit on 4-3-2013 by NeoVain because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 06:03 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
Tell us why you connect those who profess faith in Christ as nutters.


I connect with nuttery the ones who happen to feel the need to lie to prove a certain point. There is a rather lengthy thread I authored that addresses religious zealotry and its hypocrisy, feel free to ask your questions there.

People who claim to be Christian who lie to prove a point are not really Christians, they are just liars.


What was the lie exactly? One person's perspective says there is a lie. Another persons perspective views the argument from a higher axiom. Holding on to the paradox of lower axioms can appear to be truth until higher axioms are known. Perspective and frame of reference causes these disagreements. You can only deny ignorance with truth. The person with the higher axiom holds the higher ground. Attacking people only builds ground for your opponent and says nothing about the axioms you hold.

edit on 4-3-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by EnochWasRight
What was the lie exactly? One person's perspective says there is a lie.


Read my thread. The typical tactics used be religious zealots are outlined. The site you linked is no different.



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
What was the lie exactly? One person's perspective says there is a lie.


Read my thread. The typical tactics used be religious zealots are outlined. The site you linked is no different.


I think most of what you would consider lies are founded on the premise you build your beliefs upon. Like I stated above, our ideological views create axioms for the basis of our beliefs. From a Masonic worldview, this basis for your beliefs and ideology must be kept secret and guarded. You cannot speak openly. Your only alternative is to deflect anything that might require you to refine what is said with redirection or doublespeak. From a Christian standpoint, it is entirely possible that much of what is said is based on an ill-founded platform (to you that is). We would never know because of one simple fact: You cannot reveal what you know. I have seen this many times in Masonic threads. When fellow masons start to push the boundary, other Masons step in and quiet them down. I have actually witnessed you doing this very thing in a past thread.

This is your paradox. I have a feeling that many Masons know aspects of the Christian faith that they do not divulge openly. The simple question needs to be asked: Are your platforms of belief founded on the correct presuppositions? Again, this is yet another problem for you. You will note a lie from others if your presuppositions do not match the person you call a liar. As we can easily see with most truth and most symbols, there is a mirroring effect when you get close to the center line of truth. You are ALWAYS forced to make a choice between the the image and the thing that casts the image. How can you be sure?

The only sure way to know is by choosing the side that is founded on the Cornerstone of giving rather than taking. As I point out in the OP, this IS the defining factor. You are calling people liars. Don't be so sure you are not the one with the pretext rather than the proper context.

edit on 4-3-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 06:21 PM
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Originally posted by EnochWasRight
I think most of what you would consider lies are founded on the premise you build your beliefs upon.


Nah, the tactics outlined in that thread can only be construed as lying.


From a Masonic worldview, your basis for your beliefs and ideology must be kept secret and guarded.


Huh? What is a 'Masonic worldview' and when have I ever claimed to have one? My worldview is the Golden Rule.


You cannot speak openly.


I always speak openly, about everything. I have no issues answering questions or discussing any topics.


You cannot reveal what you know. I have seen this many times in Masonic threads. When fellow masons start to push the boundary, other Masons step in and quiet them down. I have actually witnessed you doing this very thing in a past thread.


Link the thread and what I was attempting to 'quiet'. The only 'secrets' are five handshakes, five passwords and some particulars about candidate preparation.



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 06:21 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
What was the lie exactly? One person's perspective says there is a lie.


Read my thread. The typical tactics used be religious zealots are outlined. The site you linked is no different.


What type of tactics would you use to describe your words against me? Could you be considered a masonic zealot? Keep it in mind that judgment is a mirror you see yourself by. My aim in this thread is like all others--have a healthy discussion of views. Rarely will we agree on views that diverge by our worldview. The discussion itself should center on the one holding the higher truth and not the bias we use to rip the other person apart. Tell us what you know of the subject and simply leave the person you dislike out of the mix. This is always the best approach.
edit on 4-3-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by EnochWasRight
Could the same be said for a Masonic Zealot who refers to me, on many occasions, as a rapist?


I never refered to you as a rapist. I refered to you as a martial rape advocate due to your comments condemning an individual and his efforts to halt this barbaric practice.


Should I link the posts you made that were then deleted by moderators when I complained?


My posts in your thread are still there and you can link them if you want.


What types of tactics could I outline for you when discussing the nature of truth, giving and taking listed in the OP?


You honestly cannot teach me anything about truth as you have been flagrantly decietful as evidenced above by claiming I called you a rapist. I parse my words carefully and with forethought, they are still here to read if anyone cares to see which of us actually travels the path of bullcrap. Prove me wrong and link where I specifcally called you 'a rapist'. I dare you.



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 06:30 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 




I always speak openly, about everything. I have no issues answering questions or discussing any topics.


How do you, as a Mason, define Jesus? How do you connect Jesus to the characters in your studies and do Christians believe a lie in your opinion? If they do, define the lie with details from your studies. How do you see current world events by a comparison to Matthew 24? The Pope? World Government? Lastly, how do these ideas fit into the nature of the declarations of intent listed on our money and seals? Do Masons have any connections to this and if so, what are those connections specifically? Who is Helios in relation to Jesus?





edit on 4-3-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 06:39 PM
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Augustus, why do you speak to a complete stranger in such a way?



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 06:40 PM
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In this post, you called me a rape advocate and changed the reply behind my name: LINK 1

The others were deleted when I complained to the moderators about what you were doing. What was that about truth again?



Originally posted by EnochWasRight(religious hypocrite/Satan-believer/marital rape advocate)
And here is where you fall on your face on ATS. We don't need their names.




Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
Could the same be said for a Masonic Zealot who refers to me, on many occasions, as a rapist?


I never refered to you as a rapist. I refered to you as a martial rape advocate due to your comments condemning an individual and his efforts to halt this barbaric practice.


Should I link the posts you made that were then deleted by moderators when I complained?


My posts in your thread are still there and you can link them if you want.


What types of tactics could I outline for you when discussing the nature of truth, giving and taking listed in the OP?


You honestly cannot teach me anything about truth as you have been flagrantly decietful as evidenced above by claiming I called you a rapist. I parse my words carefully and with forethought, they are still here to read if anyone cares to see which of us actually travels the path of bullcrap. Prove me wrong and link where I specifcally called you 'a rapist'. I dare you.
edit on 4-3-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 06:45 PM
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Originally posted by EnochWasRight
How do you, as a Mason, define Jesus?


Do you mean, 'how do you, as a person, define Jesus?' Because my beliefs on religion were established long before I joined Masonry.

To answer your question I define him as a man with some viewpoints worth following and others that I do not think are worth following.


How do you connect Jesus to the characters in your studies and do Christians believe a lie in your opinion?


My studies of what? And if Christians believed a 'lie' it would not make a difference to me, I have no concerns about what other people believe as long as they keep it to themselves and not try to get me to adhere to their beliefs.


How do you see current world events by a comparison to Matthew 24?


I do not use the Bible as a prophetic resource.


The Pope?


The Pope is irrelevant to me and my personal life.


World Government?


I do not want it.


Lastly, how do these ideas fit into the nature of the declarations of intent listed on our money and seals?Do Masons have any connections to this and if so, what are those connections specifically?


I have no idea what you mean. Be more specific.


How is Helios in relation to Jesus?


I have seen depictions of Jesus as Helios/Sol Invictus so I would make the leap that it was an attempt to attract the patronage of the Pagans into Christianity.



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 06:47 PM
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Originally posted by 3point14
Augustus, why do you speak to a complete stranger in such a way?


Seeing that this is only your third post I would think you would want to read the posting history before asking me that question as neither one of us is unaware of the other.



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 06:48 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 




I never refered to you as a rapist. I refered to you as a martial rape advocate due to your comments condemning an individual and his efforts to halt this barbaric practice.


I am an advocate for the unborn over any rights the mother might claim as choice. I do not advocate rape. I advocate for the one raped. There is a difference.

Advocate: one that pleads the cause of another before a tribunal or judicial court.

Compare this to the rights to choose life of the one unborn. Again, truth rests in our willingness to take or our sacrifice to give. You can't win an argument if you resort to tactics you claim to rise above. That's doublespeak.

Your twisting of this is to say that I advocate for the rapist. That's called a lie. Not only is it a lie, it was obvious to anyone reading that thread or this one for that matter. Know them by their fruit.

You speak on topics openly. Answer this question: Does the baby have a choice to live or die? Yes, I am an advocate for the unborn and proud of it! I would be an advocate for the prosecution of the rapist as well. I would advocate for the mother as well. Giving is better than taking any way you look at it. This IS the topic of the OP and we are still on toipic. Very much so.



edit on 4-3-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by EnochWasRight
In this post, you called me a rape advocate and changed the reply behind my name: LINK 1

The others are deleted when I complained to the moderators about what you were doing. What was that about truth again?


Seriously? You just claimed I callled you 'a rapist' and it turns out I called you exactly what I just said, a martial rape advocate because of your heinous condemnation of a man who fought to make it criminal to rape your wife.

Do you or do you not feel it should be criminal to rape your wife? If youo do then why would you condemn a man who fought to outlaw this horrific practice?

I stand by my comments, removed or otherwise.



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 07:01 PM
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In the previous thread you mention, you twisted what I said (like you are obviously doing here) to state your pretext below. Keep going though. You make it more clear with each word typed. Again, I can ask: Does the baby's right to life as a choice rise above the choice of the mother to kill the baby? As I stated in the last thread, when a woman is raped, there is a pill that keeps the pregnancy from occurring. As for the rapist, he should go to prison and share a cell with someone of his kind.

Are you seriously trying to make anyone here believe that I would advocate for the rapist? Really? Did you read the OP or any of my other threads at all? I think anyone reading this could simply consult this link to know the truth: Threads by EnochWasRight


Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
In this post, you called me a rape advocate and changed the reply behind my name: LINK 1

The others are deleted when I complained to the moderators about what you were doing. What was that about truth again?


Seriously? You just claimed I callled you 'a rapist' and it turns out I called you exactly what I just said, a martial rape advocate because of your heinous condemnation of a man who fought to make it criminal to rape your wife.

Do you or do you not feel it should be criminal to rape your wife? If youo do then why would you condemn a man who fought to outlaw this horrific practice?

I stand by my comments, removed or otherwise.



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 07:05 PM
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Originally posted by EnochWasRight
I am an advocate for the unborn over any rights the mother might claim as choice. I do not advocate rape. I advocate for the one raped. There is a difference.


This had nothing to do with abortion and everything to do with your vilification of Moses Harman who was imprisoned for fighting to stop marital rape.



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 07:16 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
I am an advocate for the unborn over any rights the mother might claim as choice. I do not advocate rape. I advocate for the one raped. There is a difference.


This had nothing to do with abortion and everything to do with your vilification of Moses Harman who was imprisoned for fighting to stop marital rape.


MOSES HERMAN

Are you speaking of the author of the Lucifer the Lightbearer (Liberal) Anarchist Magazine? My comments were pointed at his magazine and ideology and not the protest he did in Kansas (Chicago possibly?). You are again mixing one idea with another to create your own pretext.

He advocated anarchy in his magazine called Lucifer the Lightbearer. Again, this is the same Liber Al mindset that brings us full circle to the OP topic. Like I said, we are on topic.

Now that you mentioned it.

Moses Harmon and the Trials of Kansas / Chicago possibly??

Let me remind you. Jesus said to fish on the 'RIGHT' side of the boat. Peter fished on the 'Left' side. The left and right have been at odds for a very long time.

MOSES HERMAN STORY




edit on 4-3-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)





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