NATO Helicopter Kills Two Children

Originally posted by Kram09
Accidents do sadly happen, but how they can mistake two young boys collecting firewood for insurgents, is anybodies guess.

Personally I'm of the opinion that NATO should be disbanded. In fact it should have been disbanded with the collapse of the Soviet Union.

absolutely agreed

Listen, guys are idiots, and their kids are fanatics, too.
Even here, in Jagodina, Svetozarevo Former, Serbia Former, Former Yugoslavia, one night I heard some kids shouting that theirs, A. A., you know what... They are carrying something that attacks the brains of others... Other agressive religion, we are not Muslims here!

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
I fully agree that Western Forces and particularly, NATO forces, love their standoff and longer range weapons. Drones, Rockets, Bombs ..... Just about anything that allows the killing of others with little risk of numbers to report on casualties back home. Pretty cowardly and chicken crap, if anyone asks me. I can't help think back to the quotes attributed to General Patton about 'push button warfare' and think he was right in more ways than he could have known in nightmares for that time period.

Having said that... Where is the outrage when Taliban terrorists murder villagers for 'collaborating' or set up civilians to be slaughtered in the cross fire..in battles they chose the timing, ground and circumstance for? Where was the outrage when the Taliban were shooting women in the head, for sport as much as anything else, in a public stadium on such horrible crimes like teaching a female to read? The videos of their execution stadium aren't for the weak of stomach, to be sure....but were seen world wide at the time. In fact, Mullah Omar was cheeky enough to tell the UN, upon complaints about using the UN funded stadium for executing the citizenry, that if they wanted a stadium for games, they could build another one. That one was for administering justice.

It's a crappy war that never should have started and NEEDS TO END. Lets never make the bad guys out to be better than Western forces though. However bad Western forces get with animal acts, the Taliban have a PROUD and self declared history of much much worse by declared policy, and not just individuals getting outrageous or going too far.

The outrage for the taliban and their atrocities have come in the form of drone strikes, bombings and occupation.

Wow! This must be the first case of collateral damage in the entire history of human warfare! And the U.S. is to fault to boot! What an incredible story!

reply to post by Corruption Exposed
This does not require a long draw out explanation; the United Nations and NATO are the number one enemies of humanity, of free peoples and sovereign nations, and that goes for everyone with them, including their cats, dogs and hamsters.

how about the idea of someone accidentally firing on their children who are out gathering water for their families so that they can stay hydrated. those jerks probably fired on the kids for fun, because most of those pilots are sickos, who joined just to shoot people, if you havent see the video "the war you dont see" watch it, it is graphic but the begining shows just how heartless these people are.

Hey OP, just for your edification, I wanted to read this post, but I could not get past your first paragraph...

I put this in the "War On Terrorism" forum for a reason, that reason being is that NATO is a terrorist organization just like the Taliban they are there to kill supposedly because of 911 which I think is a load of BS

Therefor, I figured the rest of your post would be infected with this crap as well, and could not read it. You are biasing your audience before presenting facts, and that is pretty much a journalistic no-no. IMHO.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed

I've seen video of US forces hooligans driving down an Iraq highway firing live ammo at cars for no good reason, rock music blaring in the background..

"Trigger happy" - how many murders have occured, not because of "accidents", but just a situation where someone's in their line of sight..?

"Hey look, a couple of donkeys and people - let's make a kill.."

War.. and as if it served to tamp down Islamic Radicals hell bent on killing Americans or launching terrorist attacks, if anything it fostered increased radicalization instead of moderation.

What was needed was an army of Students, Teachers, and Journalists to infiltrate Islamist centers with IDEAS generative of a moderate Islam, not the killing of 100's of 1000's.

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

Yes the Taliban are certainly evil, but so are the invading forces. Not all, but many of these soldiers take pride in killing "rag heads". Do you remember the video where they urinated on the dead "insurgent"?

Obviously you have never been in combat or any kind of situation even remotely similar.
You, who have likely led a violence free life, have not had to deal with the mental aspects....

When you are faced with just such a situation as war you have to survive, both mentally and physically. Hence you brainwash yourself into believing in the righteousness of your actions, death, war...

You are part of a group of guys who will lay down their lives for you, and you for them...when you watch them die, a part of you dies as well....

You, sir, are not even remotely qualified to judge soldiers in the field.

As far as war goes...our govt places such restrictions on the actions of the military that they are incapable of winning in the quickest most efficient way. Hence wars that should be over in months or a couple of years get dragged on and on and on.

If you compare the civilian deaths of the last few wars vs any war previous up to and including the Korean war what we are fighting are the most humane wars possible (I know...there is no such thing, but for some reason the military is expected to conduct war with surgery-like preciseness).

You will never see a war conducted without civilian casualties...It is odd that the only side that is expected to conduct such a war, the only side that catches crap when they fail to conduct such a war, is the US and their allies.

Name any country the US have fought against in the last 40 years and you will see 10 times the atrocities committed by the enemy...but the media insist on focusing on anything resembling an atrocity by US forces.

War is war.... We should not act as the world's police, but sometimes we are faced with the situation where no one else will step up to the task.

I know there are many factors involved in why a country enters into a war, no matter what war, and we, as citizens, should recognize when the cause is just and when it is not. When it is not, we should blame our politicians, not the soldiers following orders or just trying to survive what they have been thrown into.

I am of the Vietnam generation, and I salute the Marines, Sailors and Soldiers who have fought our battles.
I spit on the politicians who would throw away good men's lives for politics or to enrich themselves and their cronies.

Imagine there is a contract out on your life. It could happen anywhere at any time. I'll give you two hand held weapons.

Try to stay alive without causing someone elses death. You'd find it difficult because paranoia, (the same you display here), will get you in the end.

Originally posted by charlyv
Hey OP, just for your edification, I wanted to read this post, but I could not get past your first paragraph...

I put this in the "War On Terrorism" forum for a reason, that reason being is that NATO is a terrorist organization just like the Taliban they are there to kill supposedly because of 911 which I think is a load of BS

Therefor, I figured the rest of your post would be infected with this crap as well, and could not read it. You are biasing your audience before presenting facts, and that is pretty much a journalistic no-no. IMHO.

edit on 4-3-2013 by charlyv because: (no reason given)

He's not a journalist.

Originally posted by MajorKarma
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

 

This does not require a long draw out explanation; the United Nations and NATO are the number one enemies of humanity, of free peoples and sovereign nations, and that goes for everyone with them, including their cats, dogs and hamsters.

No, it doesnt require a long drawn out explanation.
Words such as Moronic, ignorant, elitist come to mind...oh, did I say ignorant?

Meanwhile civilized free people who saw peoples heads off are alright in your book, right?
Civilized free people who take non-combatant Americans and then torture them until they die and then hang them up for all to see...they are alright too eh?
Civilized free people who dance in the streets when American civilians die, they are just alright upstanding civilized folk just living their lives in a moral fashion...right?
Civilized free people who will extol the virtues of blowing themselves up in order to take out the enemy, to THEIR CHILDREN...these are just good people teaching their children how to live (die) a moral life, right?

reply to post by jcarpenter


cool story dude. yet another one who ignores facts and inserts opinions, then calls them facts. you may call it whatever you like, but the President and Congress have both authorized the military engagement in Afghanistan. you don't like it, write The Hague or Congress or whomever your little heart desires. I don't care to be called an invader or an occupier or a terrorist or a war criminal. Have there been atrocities? yea, sure. on both sides. but don't tell me what I did was illegal, because unless I'm sorely mistaken, you're not any form of judicial authority, and your opinion on the legality of what's happening really carries no weight, does it?

Watch No Place to Hide narrated by G Edward Griffin. Dont fall for the trap

Originally posted by Shamrock6
reply to post by jcarpenter

 

cool story dude. yet another one who ignores facts and inserts opinions, then calls them facts. you may call it whatever you like, but the President and Congress have both authorized the military engagement in Afghanistan. you don't like it, write The Hague or Congress or whomever your little heart desires. I don't care to be called an invader or an occupier or a terrorist or a war criminal. Have there been atrocities? yea, sure. on both sides. but don't tell me what I did was illegal.....

History shows us that the victor determines the definition of justice. Right now, criminals on DC are calling the tune. That could change quite literally overnight.

Post WW2, we killed the Nazi leadership because we defined their conduct "crimes". Tomorrow, some group might be holding trials for the US leadership. I hope so. Drones, DU, torture, murder, rape and child rape deserve to be addressed and have the scales balanced.

If you have been part of the war-on-terror, you've supported state-sponsored terror. Period. Will you ever pay for it? Probably not. Does that make you any less guilty? No. Wrap your conduct in the flag or anything else, it does not matter.

Troop, you think your the first generation to play this tune?

Originally posted by bbracken677

Originally posted by MajorKarma
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

 

This does not require a long draw out explanation; the United Nations and NATO are the number one enemies of humanity, of free peoples and sovereign nations, and that goes for everyone with them, including their cats, dogs and hamsters.

No, it doesnt require a long drawn out explanation.
Words such as Moronic, ignorant, elitist come to mind...oh, did I say ignorant?

Meanwhile civilized free people who saw peoples heads off are alright in your book, right?
Civilized free people who take non-combatant Americans and then torture them until they die and then hang them up for all to see...they are alright too eh?
Civilized free people who dance in the streets when American civilians die, they are just alright upstanding civilized folk just living their lives in a moral fashion...right?
Civilized free people who will extol the virtues of blowing themselves up in order to take out the enemy, to THEIR CHILDREN...these are just good people teaching their children how to live (die) a moral life, right?

You are not seeing the big picture here. You're responding to people who do. Someone earlier in the thread made an appropriate analogy - if you break into someone's home, and then murder the homeowner by mistake, claiming "collateral damage" would be a ludicrous justification.

It is not speculation that these wars are intended for resource plundering and geopolitical strategy. I am honestly shocked that people - with access to the internet - can still champion such patently absurd notions as "The War on Terror" or some such.

If you have no justifiable reason to be in that situation in the first place, then there is no justification for any destruction you cause while in that situation. It's very simple logic, actually.

"“I offer my personal apology and condolences to the family of the boys who were killed,” General Dunford said. “We take full responsibility for this tragedy"

at first i thought it said he had went and offered an apology and i thought to myself yah your the last f ing piece of %^&* id want to see, then i realized it was just another blah blah for a news paper reporter, typical bs...


oh full responsibility, whats he gonna offer a couple hundred bucks for the mules and dead kids?



so i wake up one morning and my kids and live stock are dead, and i find out the government did it or a government agency allowed them to do it on my soil,,,,,,, how am i not to turn into a terrorist/insurgent the very next second?

gee i have no f ing clue how terrorism keeps spreading its real SHOCKING

Originally posted by charlyv
Hey OP, just for your edification, I wanted to read this post, but I could not get past your first paragraph...

I put this in the "War On Terrorism" forum for a reason, that reason being is that NATO is a terrorist organization just like the Taliban they are there to kill supposedly because of 911 which I think is a load of BS

Therefor, I figured the rest of your post would be infected with this crap as well, and could not read it. You are biasing your audience before presenting facts, and that is pretty much a journalistic no-no. IMHO.

edit on 4-3-2013 by charlyv because: (no reason given)

My first point was a fact...NATO is a terrorist organization. Biased or not, it's true so I did present fact before I offered my opinion.

Kudos to you for not being able to get past the first paragraph

I am not a Journalist by the way.

I hope the guys who did it have children of their own and that every time they look at them, they are reminded of what they have done, of the children who will never grow up because they 'just followed orders' with such amazing precision.

Deeply, deeply sad......But in no way surprising (and nor are some of the preprgrammed jingoistic responses in this thread). I hope those who post such things recall how well the 'just following orders' defence served members of the Waffen SS at Nuremburg.....Your time will come.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


So much of this reminds me of a doc I saw on HBO a while back called Children in War.

In Bosnia, kids were sent to gather water because it would spell certain death via sniper fire for any adult, and still they were getting picked off left and right because they knew where the water was going. It would not surprise me in the least if this is the same mentality being applied to these firewood gatherers.

The atrocities that went down in Rwanda are so grotesque that it is one of the few times in my life I wished I could "un-see" something as my memory is annoyingly retentive. The face of that little girl who was hacked by a machete and left for dead will be with me for the rest of my days.

*sigh* Great thread, S+F... so far I don't feel any freer when hearing the truth, but it is pissing me off more with each passing day.