a very informative video i stumbled upon today and i found it highly informative and love the fact that it corrects some of the often quoted gun myths
that are brought up in the standard or "high capacity magazine ban" debate that i feel are soundly disproven in the above video.
some highlights for those that do not like to watch videos or can not due to being on mobile devices or at work
video starts off silently and shows a few tidbits of information on magazines( " denote text from video")
Standard: as originaly designed for that firearm model
Extended:Larger then original design,Usually after market vs OEM
Restricted:Reduced to less then original design due to legal or regulatory requirement"
the video then continues to explain police shooting situations and compare them to civilian shooting situations
(further quotes from video)
"Civilians defending themselves frequently do so under conditions similar to those experienced by Police officers.
Most US law enforcement agencies have shifted to firearms with larger capacity magazines because:
70-80% of rounds fired by officers in lethal force encounters miss the intended target
many rounds that DO impact the target Fail to achieve immediate incapacitation"
and one final snipped before the real part of the video begins
using the NYPD as an example and remembering the above statistics(70-80% miss rate ) the video cites that in 2010 NYPD officers fired a total of 368
rounds to stop 24 attackers(6.5% hit rate) it is of note that 27% of these attacks required less then one shot ,it futher goes on to cite and example
in which nypd(4 officers) inside of an apartment building fired 24 rounds and hit the suspect 3 times (14%hit to86%miss ratio) further of note in a
seperate case in 2010 four officers fired 46 times hitting one suspect and wounding the other 21 times as well as 3 bystanders and i belive a few
officers each.video then goes on for several more informative slides until about 1:45 seconds into the video the officer starts doing the comparison
between standard(15 in this case),10 round and 6 round magazines in a pistol(glock by the looks of it)
the results are as follows for both shooters starting with the male shooter "jim" and then "Christy" each shooter for the pistol section shoots 30
rounds total with each type of magazine
in the first test jim fires 30 rounds(baseline for pistol test) from two standard capacity (15 rounds) mags in 20.64 seconds
for the second test jim has 3 ten round magazines(either standard or Restricted depending on state) and completes the test in 18.05 seconds(much
faster then the two 15's and the estimated federal limit of magazine capacity)
Jim then does the test with 5 six round magazines(restricted) and completes the test in 21.45 seconds(1 second aprox difference between 2 15 round
magazines) pretty informative if you ask me it is of note that the officer when starting off Christys test states that the first shooter was the more
experienced of the two shooters(i read that as older) Christys results are as follows
time for 2 15 round magazines(standard) 22.90 seconds
time for 3 ten round magazines(standard or restricted depending on state) 25.51 seconds
time for 5 six round magazines(restricted) 26.93 seconds
the second test in the video inviolves an AR-15 and uses 20 rounds as the baseline for comparison with the test being 1 20 round mag and two 10 round
Jims time with 1 twenty round mag(standard or restricted depending on juristiction) 12.16 seconds
Jims time with 2 twenty round mags(standard or restricted depending on jurisdiction) 10.73 seconds(1.43 seconds faster)
Christys time with 1 twenty round mag was 12.26 seconds
and her time with 2 ten round magazines was 14.63 seconds
the next test is one i found quite interesting as it is them disproving(in my and the videos opinion) the common held myth that smaller magazines will
increase the chances of taking out an armed shooter during a reload.and is a demonstration where the shooter fires then has to reload before a person
standing to the side of them can get to them from 25 feet away,the runner starts when he percieves a reload and then stops when the next round is
Jims results are as follows the runner got about nine feet until jim was able to reload time is not given so you will have to watch that part of the
Christys results are not stated but are shown
the third demonstration in the video is of a revolver and starts off with basic info on loading a revolver and a bit about their history then using a
six shot revolver as an example you see a gentleman shooting at three targets with a bag on his hip,he then proceeds to pull (i couldnt count exactly)
what looks like 5-6 revolvers from the bag and continually engage the targets until he is out of guns,what the officer refers to as a "new york
reload" and what that means that in 18.80 seconds he fired 30 rounds from 6 shot revolvers by discarding them and grabbing another. thats 4.10
seconds faster then JIM could fire 2 fifteen round magazines from a Glock and done with revolvers.... ill let that sink in for all the anti gun people
the final test is a replca of what the army did in 1912 to test the colt 1911 pistol where you start with an empty pistol and have 3 Seven round
magazines on a table,the object of which is to fire 21 rounds in 12 seconds.
they made the following changes to the standard test by adding target requirements(you have to aim not just spray and pray) and the time was as
Jim fired 21 rounds ON TARGET in 9.78 seconds(w three reloads) for comparisons sake jim fired 20 rounds in 12.26 seconds with the AR_15 and 14.63
seconds with a reload
i found this highly informative and figured with the ongoing debate some of our members would find this as interesting as i did
thank you for your reply
yeah i also like how the video was presented politely and to the point and not for lack of a better term "with screaming and yelling" ala alex jones
style,firther more it refuted two key claims of the anti gunners that smaller magazines will lead to people being able to "take down an active
shooter while unarmed" and that further restrictions to civilian's in regards to magazine capacity just serve to hurt us as opposed to criminals.
And it has to be remembered, those stats don't take into account the misses due to the blind panic and terror being felt by say for example a lone
woman at home, being attacked by several attackers in a surprise / shock situation.
She's likely to be terrified, in shock, and probably not going to be as experienced or trained to the same standard as a Police officer.
The miss rate would no doubt go up considerably then... standard capacity Vs. higher capacity in a situation like a home invasion, IS going to mean
the difference between life and death, no doubt about it.
exactly and i liked how they had a vetran trained shooter doing one side of the test and then a younger more inexpirneced shooter do them as well to
almost explain it as Jim represents the police and military and highly trained gun owners responses where as Christys was more for the casual
shooter(home owner) or those that do not put as much time into training as other people do so we could have a comparison for highly trained vs
inexprienced but still competent if that makes any sense
This certainly does point out the non-seriousness of the arguments made by the anti-firearms crowd. It was professional and well thought out. Thanks
to the people who made it and to the OP for sharing it here so I could find it. This will be used by everyone with any sense to drive the point home
that gun control/safety legislation being proposed is about incremental power grab by the corporatist government minions.
I would also point out that the government is not a homogenous organization. There are good people that started out wanting to do good but you can not
crawl into a barrel of bad apples and think you are going to somehow not rot yourself while you try and change it from its rotten inside core.
It seems to me that many cops cannot hit the broadside of a barn from the inside when it comes to firing their firearms. Most lack the proper training
because it is not in the city/county/state budget.
Training is key here. Otherwise you end up with the spray and pray folk. Up here in Cleveland, 137 rounds were recently fired at two people who were
involved in a high speed chase. One of the LEOs actually jumped up upon the hood of the car and fired through the windshield. Tell me he wasn't
freaking out somehow.
I never saw anything like that in Iraq.
It really does boil down to, training, training, training.
that is an important and often over looked point you bring up,cops cant train with out money to train and shoot and if they cant train and shoot they
are far more likely to miss.
its something that will continue to effect not just police but private citizens with all this ammo panicking that is going on and with the price of
ammo on the rise practicing is going to become a bit more expensive then is used to be for all of us.
found an additional link and more info the officers name in question is Sheriff Ken Campbell of Boone County, Indiana and evidently this video was
funded by ArmaLite
Sheriff Ken Campbell of Boone County, Indiana, oversaw testing that magazine limitations have little or no effect on a shooter’s ability to
deliver aimed fire. Funding for the video was provided by ArmaLite.
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