Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by adjensen
Now, here we come with a book (and a thread) called "The Myth of Persecution: How Early Christians Invented a Story of Martyrdom", which is a fairly condemning title. We are aware how little some people read, think and discern, so it is not unlikely that there are those who will file that title away without the slightest consideration of what it means, apart from some vague "the church lied about the Romans killing them", and then, if the subject ever comes up, they're likely to say something like "oh, I heard all those martyr stories are BS, no one really died."
That's my issue.
(The thread title is the book's title).....
so, it's 'condemning' of whom?
Yes, we are aware of how little some read, think, and discern......
are you suggesting that we don't dare bring these publications to the public, because some will just accept the title as "truth" without reading it and considering the evidence?
How, my friend, is that any different than saying the Bible is "the true word of God"?
False Flag Number Two the Burning of Rome
Yet there was a problem, what to do about the real Christians? While they were relatively small in numbers in Rome, and influential as they were all slaves, and originally came from a remote part of Britannia it would do little good to have any who could actually deny that their God Christ was not from Jerusalem or attached in any way to the Hebrews.
Ruthless campaigns against the Celts and Druids by the Roman Legions in Britannia could solve the first problem.
Silencing the real Christians in Rome would be more problematic.
So Emperor Nero set fire to Rome to kill two birds with one stone. He would place the blame squarely on the Christians and have them all rounded up and killed, and raise the religions stature for the first time to the eyes of the average Roman even while Josephus would be defining the Hebrew myths through his fabrications that would be a parent to the Christian Religion.
At the same time, Rome would benefit from some much needed remodeling in the congested city center, as far as Nero was concerned.
With almost every district of Rome touched by the fire, and many consumed completely by it and a death toll in the hundreds of thousands, the survivors wanted their pound of flesh and someone to blame.
Nero would give it to them in the form of the Christians. He would sentence them all too spectacular deaths and martyrdom and silence the roots of their religion at the same time.
They would be drugged in advance, to meet their fates stoically, in fine Roman fashion, meant to impress the average Roman of the power of their virtually unheard of and little worshiped God but for Slaves from Britannia.
She's a scholar, with a doctorate, for crying out loud!!
Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by wildtimes
Moss, however, exposes that the “Age of Martyrs” is a fiction—there was no sustained 300-year-long effort by the Romans to persecute Christians.
Based on what again? The records kept by those who committed the atrocities?
LOL. Enough said.
Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by wildtimes
Being thrown to gladiators and lions for sport, to the roar of the crowds, and being boiled alive in oil and burned at the stake and nicknamed by Nero a "roman candle", isn't what you call persecution? Rome always did have a tendency to downplay what they were doing. Martyrdom did happen and it still does happen in places like China and the M.E.edit on 3-3-2013 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)
Perhaps you skipped the un-highlighted parts? Did you even look at the links?
The following account was written by the Roman historian Tacitus in his book Annals published a few years after the event. Tacitus was a young boy living in Rome during the time of the persecutions.
"Therefore, to stop the rumor [that he had set Rome on fire], he [Emperor Nero] falsely charged with guilt, and punished with the most fearful tortures, the persons commonly called Christians, who were [generally] hated for their enormities. Christus, the founder of that name, was put to death as a criminal by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea, in the reign of Tiberius, but the pernicious superstition - repressed for a time, broke out yet again, not only through Judea, - where the mischief originated, but through the city of Rome also, whither all things horrible and disgraceful flow from all quarters, as to a common receptacle, and where they are encouraged. Accordingly first those were arrested who confessed they were Christians; next on their information, a vast multitude were convicted, not so much on the charge of burning the city, as of "hating the human race."
Saint Stephen, Protomartyr, was stoned c. 34 AD.
Saint James the Great (Son of Zebedee) was beheaded in 44 AD.
Saint Philip the Apostle was crucified in 54 AD.
Saint Matthew the Evangelist killed with a halberd battle axe and spear in 60 AD.
Saint James the Just, beaten to death with a club after being crucified and stoned.
Saint Matthias was stoned and beheaded.
Saint Andrew, St. Peter's brother, was crucified.
Saint Mark the Evangelist, was dragged in the streets of Alexandria then beheaded
Saint Peter, crucified upside-down.
Saint Paul, beheaded in Rome.
Saint Bartholomew flayed alive and crucified.
Saint Thomas the Apostle was killed by a spear in Mylapore, Madras, India in AD 72.
Saint Luke the Evangelist was hanged.
Saint Simon the Zealot was crucified in 74 AD.
Saint Antipas of Pergamum, according to tradition, roasted to death in a brazen bull during the persecutions of Emperor Domitian, c. 92 A. D.
John the Baptist was beheaded by Herod.
Martyrs of Japan
Francis Taylor, 1621
Vietnamese Martyrs 1625 - 1886
Magdalene of Nagasaki 1634
Lorenzo Ruiz, 1637
Canadian Martyrs, North American Martyrs, 1642–1649
Arthur Bell, 1643
Isaac Jogues, 1646 (French Jesuit in New York killed by Indians)
John de Britto, 1647-1693, born in Portugal and beheaded in India
Francis Ferdinand de Capillas (Dominican missionary to China), 1648
King Charles I, beheaded after the Second Civil War - 1649
Diego Luis de San Vitores and Pedro Calungsod, 1672
Feodosia Morozova (Old Believer), 1675
Oliver Plunkett, 1681
Felipe Songsong, 1685
Devasahayam Pillai, 1712-1752, Indian martyr.
Constantin Brâncoveanu, 1714
Lorenzo Carranco, Spanish missionary to Baja California, 1734
Nicolás Tamarál, Spanish missionary to Baja California, 1734
Vicente Liem de la Paz (Tonkinese Dominican), 1773
Luís Jayme, Spanish missionary to Alta California, 1775
Cosmas of Aetolia, 1779
Francisco Garcés, Spanish missionary to Alta California, 1781
Martyrs of Compiegne, 1794
Andrés Quintana, Spanish missionary to Alta California, 1812
Chinese Martyrs (various Christian denominations), 19th and 20th centuries
Andrew Dung-Lac (Vietnamese Catholic), 1839
Hyrum Smith, 1844
Joseph Smith, Jr., 1844
Korean Martyrs 1839, 1846, 1866
Peter Chanel (Catholic priest), 1841
Andrew Kim Taegon, 1846
Marcus Whitman, 1847
Narcissa Whitman, 1847
Martyrs of India 1857
Lucy Yi Zhenmei, one of the 19th century Chinese Catholic Martyrs, 1862
Thomas Baker, 1867, English missionary killed and eaten, Fiji
Martyrs of Uganda, 1885–1887
Esther John 1929-1960, Found Killed in Chichawatni commemorated at Westminster Abbey.
Maria Goretti (virgin martyr), 1902
Grand Duchess Elizabeth Fyodorovna, 1918
Nun Barbara (Yakovleva), 1918
Saints of the Cristero War 1926-1927
Miguel Pro, 1927
Toribio Romo González, 1928
Manche Masemola, (1913–1928)
José Sánchez del Río 1928
Innocencio of Mary Immaculate 1934
Bartolome Blanco Marquez, 1936
Martyrs of the Spanish Civil War 1934, 1936–1939
Paul Schneider (pastor)1939
Maximilian Kolbe (Polish Franciscan, died at Auschwitz), 1941
Edith Stein (Carmelite nun, died at Auschwitz), 1942
Lucian Tapiedi (1942)
Franz Jägerstätter, 1943
Dusty Miller (Martyr), 1945, a Methodist layman killed as a P.O.W. of the Japanese in Thailand during WWII.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer, (April 9, 1945) Lutheran Pastor and member of the German Resistance
Theodore Romzha, 1947
Beda Chang, 1951
Zdenka Cecilia Schelingová, 1955
Jim Elliot, 1956
Nate Saint, 1956, killed while attempting to evangelize the Waodani people
Ed McCully 1956
Pete Fleming 1956
Roger Youderian 1956
Alan Castillo, March 34, 1956
Wang Zhiming (1907 - December 29, 1973) Chinese pastor, publicly executed
Janani Jakaliya Luwum (1922 – 17 February 1977), Archbishop of Uganda.
Óscar Romero (August 15, 1917 – March 24, 1980), Archbishop of San Salvador
Martyrs of Atlas, 1996
Kosheh Martyrs, Egypt 1998–2000
Ri Hyon Ok, Executed in June 2009 in North Korea for distributing bibles.
Nag Hammadi martyrs, Egypt 2010
Alufunzi Ziwa, 2011
did you include the 50,000,000 christians, jews, muslims and pagans of various types (mostly christians though), killed by stalin?
Its clear at this point that you just may have an agenda beyond a reconsideration of the extent of the martyrdoms. It looks like you are slowly creeping up on the suggestion that if the early martyer records were fabricated or hyped to a good degree then there is no reason not to believe the whole story of christianity is hyped up tall tales.
Candida Moss teaches New Testament and Christian Origins in the Department of Theology at the University of Notre Dame.
Specializing in Biblical studies and early Christian history, she holds an undergraduate degree in Theology from Oxford University, a Masters degree in Biblical Studies from Yale Divinity School and a doctorate in Religious Studies from Yale University. She currently serves as co-chair of the Healthcare and Disability in the Ancient Near East section of the international and national meetings of the Society of Biblical Literature and as a consultant and presenter for National Geographic Television.
She is the author or editor of three books and over twenty articles. Her first book, The Other Christs: Imitating Jesus in Ancient Christian Ideologies of Martyrdom (Oxford, 2010) was awarded the 2011 John Templeton Award for Theological Promise. The recipient of grants and awards from the Woodrow Wilson Foundation, the John Templeton Foundation, and the National Endowment for the Humanities, she has published numerous articles on various aspects of Biblical and early Christian literature, history, and thought.
She is currently working on a book on the resurrection of the body entitled "Heavenly Bodies: Resurrecting Perfection in Early Christianity" for Yale University Press, a popular book on early Christian martyrdom for HarperOne, and a commentary on Second Century Martyrdom Accounts for the Hermeneia Commentary series.