Why I cannot bring myself to believe in a God

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posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 09:54 PM
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There is still so much for us to learn about our humanity and what makes us who we are. When we see suffering around us it is easy to be negative about it. The difficult thing to do is rest in the knowledge that we determine the future and that what is to be is directly under our control today. Perhaps, if you take a step back from the situation and truly forget about this whole “God-thing” you can find fresh strength to see in it what you can do to make a positive impact on this family in the troublesome days ahead of them. Keep your vision clear and your heart open.

Thank you for sharing and best of luck.




posted on Mar, 3 2013 @ 12:18 AM
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I cannot and will not believe in such a horrible God. If there is a God, I will have nothing to do with him. I can see what he has done all around us and I cannot imagine someone as powerful as God allowing it to happen unless they were terribly cruel.
reply to post by StruggleTogether
 

Struggle, I see so much of a younger me in your story. The anger, the passion tells me a great deal about the journey you are destined to follow. You are a truth seeker as am I, and you will never quite seeking the truth. The only difference my journey started 30 years previous to your own. Your dilemma is one that I can add some insight to, as your anger is natural to the human struggle. Don't get a big head but I've followed ATS for the past 3-4 years at times I've been much more vigilant than at other times, but this is my very first post. I've read thousands of comments to ATS and yours was the first to inspire me to comment.

As a child my parents dragged me to Church very much against my will, they raised my brothers and myself in the Baptist Church. We were involved in Sunday School and as a kid 3 hours out of my Sunday in a boring, and uncomfortable setting was not what I wanted to do with my Sundays. Maybe it was just extreme boredom I don't know but I do know, that I wanted nothing to do with the Baptist Church as an adult and never went back. At 22 I wanted to make my future wife's parents happy so I tried to get involved in the Catholic Church, that didn't work either, but I will say the Catholics get it, they keep the Priest's accountable for the length of the message 10 am Mass will be over at 10:45, Catholics, unlike Baptist's understand that we are in Church but we won't be next Sunday if you don't have it all wrapped up in 45 Minutes. The Baptist's have a way of handling stuff and beating the # out of a kid is not at all child abuse. I also was witness to the results of the Baptist Church especially on what it did for my dad who had not problem being an Alcoholic and beat the # out of his kids in addition raising his children to be hoodlums was OK with his way of doing things. The # my Dad did to his kids weren't something I even knew was wrong until I had kids of my own, and the # he did to me were things that wouldn't even cross my mind as a parent of 4 children. Religion and the message he got from the Baptist Church, is incomprehensible. If you don't have an understanding of god, exactly as the Baptist Church {although you could substitute any organized relision in that statement} bad things will happen to you, namely they teach you are going to have an eternity living in hell. Seems a little stringent for simply not following the rest of the sheep. My rebellious nature simply doesn't allow me to be told how to think. My idea about God and Jesus just doesn't work in absolutes, in addition it's not about ritual and stringency but rather what's in your heart do you help others.
My thoughts in regards to your dilemma is that God certainty doesn't enjoy human suffering, my thought on God and Jesus is they are loving, and they love each of us, they created us in their image. More important than being created to look like God we are allowed free will to make our own choices on Earth and with that comes death, and disease. The privilege of free will comes with unfortunately the flip side of the coin, pain and suffering. If God came down and took away all suffering on Earth wouldn't that be a form a heaven. Without free will we live in a very sterile place, a World without disease and suffering sounds alot like what having faith in God and Jesus and taking care of your fellow man through love and compassion has been promised to us heaven. We have imperfect bodies that need all kinds of things to work correctly in this realm we are slaves to a body that once given to us immediately starts to die. Being prisoner to the constraints of our bodies is something we won't need to deal with in the next life. God is good and created perfection in my opinion but we must show faith and deal with life in this realm with all the pain and suffering that accompanies life as we live it, the woman who's body was ravaged with cancer is in a place that doesn't have suffering of any kind, I'm sure here family while missing here is comforted by not only that fact, but maybe God is working something out for them who are we to say.
Keep the faith, seek the truth, love your neighbor along with all the creatures on our planet. I'm pretty sure if you live like that, you will find the best of what's around when the time comes and it's coming.



posted on Mar, 3 2013 @ 01:00 AM
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reply to post by Sharpertwo
 





At 22 I wanted to make my future wife's parents happy so I tried to get involved in the Catholic Church, that didn't work either, but I will say the Catholics get it, they keep the Priest's accountable for the length of the message 10 am Mass will be over at 10:45, Catholics, unlike Baptist's understand that we are in Church but we won't be next Sunday if you don't have it all wrapped up in 45 Minutes.


Then you would have a very difficult time being a christian 2000 years ago if you cannot handle the word being preached for more than 45 minutes. Back then the Word was preached all night, from dusk till dusk with worshipping in between and it was a joy to worship the Lord, not considered a bothersome task like many of you folks today and all of it done while running for their lives from the same Romans you hitched up to, more often than not holding services in tombs and catacombs while the ones who were caught by Nero and Domitian were boiled in oil and burned alive or thrown to gladiators and lions to the roar of the crowds.



posted on Mar, 3 2013 @ 02:18 AM
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Originally posted by Tardacus
god is busy he has a whole universe to take care of he doesn`t have time to micromanage every second of every life here on earth.
The bible says that the entire life span of a man is but the blink of an eye to god,our entire 80 or 90 years of life on this planet is less than 1 second in god time.
in the grand scheme of eternity 1 second is nothing, so does it make sense to think that god is going to micro manage our lives and intervene in them just to save us from 1 second of pain and discomfort?

I imagine it`s kind of like when a baby gets a vaccination, it`s just a quick little prick with a needle and in the grand scheme of the baby`s entire life it`s really insignificant, but to the baby it`s the worst pain that has ever happened to him in his short life and probably seems like it will never end.by the time he is 50 years old he won`t even remember getting the vaccine and he sure won`t remember the pain.

a million years from now we won`t remember the pain and turmoils of our lives here on earth.
so, i think that preventing us from experiencing pain and turmoil here on earth is probably pretty low on gods priority list.
edit on 2-3-2013 by Tardacus because: (no reason given)


I'm not necessarily saying that God needs to micromanage each and everyone of us (although being the creator of everything, time should be of no obstacle to him). If you were to set up a scientific experiment you would remove everything that could potentially harm/alter/destroy/cause unintended side effects towards what you are trying to observe*. You wouldn't leave unnecessary/harmful objects in your experiment and just ignore them because your busy doing something else. In this sense, why can't God just remove these harmful things in life? Why even have disease or starvation? *I understand God may not be observing in a scientific endeavor, but I felt it was a decent allusion.

reply to post by Lionhearte
 


My sympathies go out to you and your mother, I am sorry for your loss. With that said, please do not interpret my following comments in a negative light. I am not trying to display any sort of insensitivity, especially for such a sensitive subject area.

I am happy to hear that you were able to relieve your mother of pain through the power of prayer, but I have never witnessed such a sight. My mother has been a devote Christian since I was born and she too, has never witnessed anything of this nature. It is becoming increasingly difficult for her because of this. She has been losing faith and has grown depressed because she hasn't had her prayers answered or the pain she feels lifted. I do not talk about these matters with my mother because I don't want to hurt her beliefs, but why has she not experienced what you have? Why have so many prayers gone unanswered, so much pain gone unnoticed, and so much death gone unwarranted? I am terrifically happy for the what you got to experience during that moment, but I feel as though your case is not the norm.

I haven't mentioned Satan because I simply haven't felt it necessary really. If I don't believe in God I don't believe in his opposition. So God sends 1,000's of missionaries to Africa to help alleviate the problems there. Why does he not simply end it all himself? Why did he even let it begin in the first place?
edit on 3-3-2013 by StruggleTogether because: (no reason given)


reply to post by Lionhearte
 


But aren't we created in God's image? Why would we be created imperfect? If God intends for us all to go to Heaven and live an eternity of perpetual serenity, why not just create that? It seems rather odd to have this two step process of sorting us out when he is creating us in his own image.
edit on 3-3-2013 by StruggleTogether because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 3 2013 @ 02:46 AM
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Originally posted by Philodemus
Perhaps if you told us what sort of “Christian” you were it would help us understand more precisely what angle you're approaching this from. There is a world of difference between the denominations and a Catholic is in no way a Baptist.


I was baptized Catholic, but my mother was not a fan of Catholic churches (they were what she grew up attending). All of the churches we attended were non-denomination Christianity churches. I also attended a Methodist youth group off and on for awhile.


Both of these statements are true. However, they are not sympathetic. Religion is a man-made structure of beliefs based on an presupposition of the perceived nature of God. Religion doesn't intrinsically mean a personal relationship with God, but it should. I am sure you were aware of that and you only meant only what you said. One recommend reading that will probably blow your mind is a selection from Ludwig Feurebach called, “Religion as Illusion” from his “The Essence of Christianity”. Read the one translated by George Elliot. It's stunning.


You are correct. I simply hold that a belief in God, or religion as we have defined it, to be a personal pursuit. I am trying to find that translation you mentioned as I'd like to read it.


I am going to try to say this with as much human love and compassion as I can because I can see that these events have moved you in a very deep way. First of all, know this, that there is no correlation between good people/good happenings and bad people/bad happenings outside of natural laws of cause and effect. If you live your life in a selfish state as lonewolf admittedly did, then you will invariably spiral into depression as every last hope you had flees you and every good friend turns their back. This has nothing to do with sin. It's cause and effect. If you live a life of debauchery and get stricken with cancers and venereal disease due to the choices in lifestyle that you made, this is again, cause and effect. It is not sin.

The friend of your father's got cancer do to cause and effect. Not because of lifestyle choices (I'm guessing, since you didn't mention anything to make us assume such) but because of the fact that she is a woman living in the 21st century when this sort of thing is becoming the genetic regularity rather than the exception. It is not her fault, not the fault of a God or devil. Plain and simple.


If God created us, then he created her genetics. Her cancer was predetermined according to a belief in God. I'm also aware that it had nothing to do with lifestyle choices, they are very healthy and have been very conscious of what they eat (same goes for their children). So then why was it genetically supposed to happen?



posted on Mar, 3 2013 @ 03:06 AM
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Originally posted by Philodemus
And truly my brother, understand this, that if you don't grasp the fact that good can still come out of this, you too will be eaten by a cancer of a different sort. This is your opportunity to get in there and make a difference. You have a connection through your father, so get in and make yourself available to the family, and specifically the children. You seem to be worried most about how they will handle this and how they will come to blame their father. If this is your human concern, then you are obligated to act on it as best you can. Be part of the solution. If you don't, you will hate this make-believe God even more, and your life will be crippled for it.


If I am wrong and there is a God, then I refuse to believe in him. I refuse to believe in an all powerful, all knowing, omnipotent God that willingly allows this to happen, not just to this family, but many, many others. A God that sends those who do not believe in him to Hell, an eternity of suffering.


If you understand that there has to be a governing attribute to the Christian God, and that the only attribute that makes the whole of the theology synergistic is Holiness, then this sort of thing would make far more sense to you. I do not believe in God. But if I did the most logically sound concept that I can see that would be in harmony with the totality of the scripture, both old and new testament, would be a Holy God. If I can discount scripture completely (as I do) and still felt the need to believe in God (which I do not) I feel I would be inclined to think of God they way Charles Hartshorne does. I highly recommend reading his ”Time, Death, and Everlasting Life” (Chapter 10 of “The Logic of Perfection, 1962) if you want a balanced and not so dogmatic approach to considering ideals like reward and punishment, heaven and hell.



I cannot and will not believe in such a horrible God. If there is a God, I will have nothing to do with him. I can see what he has done all around us and I cannot imagine someone as powerful as God allowing it to happen unless they were terribly cruel.


Again, I can see where you are coming from, but I don't think you truly understand the arguments made by those who would defend this God. If it isn't enough to accept this God based on all the good done in His name then it isn't enough to reject Him based on all the evil done in His name either. You must be fair. If you wish to reject the idea of God you must be ready to dig deeper than this and find more substantial reasons for doing so. This is my clarion call to you, a fellow atheist. Dig deeper. Make stronger connections that lead to more steadfast conclusions.


Why do we need to believe in a God? Why can't we just practice being decent human beings? Do the right thing because it is the right thing to do. Help someone because it is nice. Don't help someone because its what your religion says is the right thing, help someone because they need help.


These are actually, much more difficult question then they first appear. You make them hypothetically, as if they answer themselves, but they don't. Why do we need to believe in God? Well, for that answer I recommend Daniel Dannett and his book, Breaking The Spell.
Why can't we just practice being decent human beings? Well, for starters, what makes someone “decent”? In other words, what determines “good”? For this you must plumb the very depths of mankind’s humanistic knowledge. For this you must acquaint yourself with all that is humanity in it's totality. Try reading some David Hume.


Help someone because it is nice.

The deeper issue here is whether or not any action is truly motivated from altrusitic intention. Is there such a thing as a completely selfless act? I don't think there is. For a good view of these concepts pick up some Neitzsche. Specifically, read the first part of “Dawn of the Day”.


I have started reading more about the teachings of Buddhism because I find a lot of them to align with what I believe. I don't believe in a heaven or hell.


I advise you to keep a distance. Buddhism is no innocent lamb.

I believe that we live on through the memories of others. Why should we not make those memories the best we can? Fill the people around you with happy memories, reach out to a random stranger and change their life forever. They will remember what you did. Surround yourself with your friends and family and just be a good person for the sake of being a good person. Not so you can go vacation in Heaven for eternity.


Again, please read Hartshorne's “The Logic of Perfection”, chapter 10.



Sigh. All my reponses lost due to a security error. I will try to fix this up tomorrow or something, but I have a strong distaste for attempting to retype everything again
edit on 3-3-2013 by StruggleTogether because: (no reason given)
edit on 3-3-2013 by StruggleTogether because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 3 2013 @ 03:27 AM
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reply to post by Sharpertwo
 


Because when you were younger you were closer to the truth, as most are. Then they are forced into church to become brainwashed and before you know it they are justifying the actions of a God that seeks to destroy the planet, and to have humans as slaves of eternal worship.



posted on Mar, 3 2013 @ 02:59 PM
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Sorry that you lost your responses to my post. I don't like re-typing either, so I get it. Just do yourself a favour, hunt down that reading material I suggested. It really will help you.

I was raised in a very strict Baptist home/school/university so I understand freeing ones mind from a strong and well developed world view. The reading I suggested will really help you do this.


Much brotherly love,
Daniel



posted on Mar, 3 2013 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by StruggleTogether
 



If God created us, then he created her genetics. Her cancer was predetermined according to a belief in God. I'm also aware that it had nothing to do with lifestyle choices, they are very healthy and have been very conscious of what they eat (same goes for their children). So then why was it genetically supposed to happen?



Have you considered the possibility of Karmic debt?




posted on Mar, 3 2013 @ 06:16 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by StruggleTogether
 



If God created us, then he created her genetics. Her cancer was predetermined according to a belief in God. I'm also aware that it had nothing to do with lifestyle choices, they are very healthy and have been very conscious of what they eat (same goes for their children). So then why was it genetically supposed to happen?



Have you considered the possibility of Karmic debt?



Karmic debt answers 99% of all questions (you have no control) over your fate and destiny. With the other one percent, I place my remaining hopes on the roulette wheel 11 black.
edit on 3-3-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 3 2013 @ 06:19 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by StruggleTogether
 



If God created us, then he created her genetics. Her cancer was predetermined according to a belief in God. I'm also aware that it had nothing to do with lifestyle choices, they are very healthy and have been very conscious of what they eat (same goes for their children). So then why was it genetically supposed to happen?



Have you considered the possibility of Karmic debt?



No such thing.




Without reincarnation karma falls apart.



posted on Mar, 3 2013 @ 06:20 PM
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Originally posted by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by StruggleTogether
 



If God created us, then he created her genetics. Her cancer was predetermined according to a belief in God. I'm also aware that it had nothing to do with lifestyle choices, they are very healthy and have been very conscious of what they eat (same goes for their children). So then why was it genetically supposed to happen?



Have you considered the possibility of Karmic debt?



Karmic debt answers 99.9 of all questions (you have no control) over your fate and destiny. With the other one percent, I placed my remaining hopes on the roulette wheel 11 black.


I agree... though I tend to think love can solve the remaining 1%

27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.

30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.

34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.

35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.





posted on Mar, 3 2013 @ 06:33 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


You believe whatever you like brother...

That video shows nothing by the way... based solely on Christian dogma...

Karmic debt can be resolved over your incarnations, its not forever accumulating...

He says "these religions don't believe in God" which is just bullshmutt...


Not only is reincarnation in the bible, but it was likely taught by Jesus as well...

Both reincarnation, and resurrection exist... You disagree?

Well apparently that means "ALL things are not possible with your God"

edit on 3-3-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 02:23 AM
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StruggleTogether,

God loves you very, very much, more than any human person. Believe in Him.

Everyone in this life will suffer, Our Lord who is God suffered horribly. Suffering is redemptive, for ourselves
and anyone we wish to offer our suffering to God for.

February 7, 2013

..."Jesus said: “My people, it is not easy to bear the daily burdens of living this human condition. By offering up all of your little troubles and trials, you can gain redemptive graces for those people who you are praying for. Remember not to waste any pain, but offer up your sufferings to help others. By doing even these little things in life, you can make big steps in improving your spirituality.”...

www.johnleary.com...



posted on Mar, 4 2013 @ 02:53 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 

While I don't believe in the Bible I fully support and am surprisingly impressed by your language and use of "your god" and other things you said.

Intrinsic to "your god" is the acknowledgement individuals hold unique beliefs about "god". That's important. It's all too human. Something people should keep in mind. We are limited. Everyone has their version of "god". Sometimes it's non-existence, sometimes it's based biblically, sometimes neither, but it's always unique. It's always unique because deep down no one is satisfied with any particular book as a final explanation. This is great. Don't try to encapsulate the infinite, no on can.
edit on 4-3-2013 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2013 @ 12:20 AM
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Originally posted by StruggleTogether

But aren't we created in God's image? Why would we be created imperfect? If God intends for us all to go to Heaven and live an eternity of perpetual serenity, why not just create that? It seems rather odd to have this two step process of sorting us out when he is creating us in his own image.
edit on 3-3-2013 by StruggleTogether because: (no reason given)


Which God's image? Your human image? Or Your other image that you experience when you have a dreamless sleep?
edit on 5-3-2013 by dodol because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 01:29 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 



If he's all-knowing, all-powerful, and perfect, why does he need this reinforcement of his greatness from a bunch of insignificant beings that he created? It's illogical and irrational, IMO.


It is perfectly rational when you know the background to why we were created and why Satan was not killed straight away but instead became temporal ruler over Earth.

I have posted on this issue recently, here you maybe able to find some answers and a new view to consider (which is the Truth of the situation). If you have any issues with what I wrote let me know.



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 02:00 AM
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reply to post by StruggleTogether
 



There are a whole range of scientific reasons for why I don't believe in God and those were what definitely pushed me over when I was 18. I said I was agnostic for awhile, but recently I have just felt there is simply is no God.


There are also a whole lot of scientific reasons that there is a God that we and the whole milky way galaxy are a product of supernatural creation...that we are not a result of naturalist processes. I could take you through multiple lines of information showing the irreconcilable holes in the supposed naturalistic model that would have brought us here (if there was no God). Massive holes every step of the way, from cosmic evolution to stellar and planetary evolution, then onto chemical and biological evolution. The naturalistic model breaks down every step of the way in trying to explain our life and existence


This is essentially what I'm saying about God. How can he be a loving, caring God, but allow so much pain and sorrow in this world? It goes against him fundamentally and serves to reason that either he doesn't exist or is not the God we think he is.

The answer to this is more in line with your latter statement, "is not the God we think he is". Unfortunately people have mistaken the purpose of our creation on Earth and do not understand the full dimensions of the conflict between God and Satan and what it is all over. Many have a wrong expectation of why we are here and can not see how a loving God has allowed a world where all these kinds of terrible things can take place. This current life is a merely a dress rehearsal for the next and what is occurring on Earth is more of an black mark against Satan's rule and principles than God's.


I don't understand though. Why must he go through this? What benefit could this possibly serve him?

I will also draw you to a post covering this issue as well here



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 03:43 AM
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reply to post by StruggleTogether
 



She was attending various treatment programs and trying to avoid chemo, but no matter what they did, things kept getting worse. At this point, Lauren has cancer in almost every part of her body. There is virtually no chance that she will be able to make it through this

This is a very sad story indeed

The best methods for fighting cancer I am aware of was technology developed by a person can Royal Raymond Rife in the 1920's and 1930's that was mostly suppressed from the public and mainline medicine. You may be interested to learn more about this here and here

and this video documentary


The other treatment method is lifestyle based where cancer is fought based on the principles that it can not grow in an alkaline environment or when surrounded my oxygen. The most complete form of this treatment is something called Gerson Therapy. There are a number of youtube videos about this treatment you can check out and this is also their main website.

My aunty has cancer and while she is not on full Gerson therapy (which I think is mostly US based and can get pricing) with the coffee enemas and other supplements that are unique to them, she is on the more alkaline based diet, makes vegetable juices and the like (the information she is basing her treatment on is from a women how runs a health retreat in Australia that has had much success in curing cancer at all its stages).

Here are a couple of videos you may find valuable (and want to pass on to your parents friend as well). This is Barbara O'Neill talking about cancer/disease in relation to its cause and how it interacts in an acid or alkaline environment

Acid Alkaline Balance


The True Cause of Disease



If I am wrong and there is a God, then I refuse to believe in him. I refuse to believe in an all powerful, all knowing, omnipotent God that willingly allows this to happen, not just to this family, but many, many others.


You have an honest and sincere heart.

There are forces at work performed by human agents on behalf of often Satanic allegiances that are the main cause behind the massive increase in cancer rates around the world and why effective technology against it gets suppressed from the general medicine. Fluoride in the water supply, artificial estrogen in plastics, genetically modified food, chemical toxins and many other (man) induced environmental factors are the chief causes for cancer in society. By researching this area carefully it should be more apparent that God is not so much the one to blame in this regard.


A God that sends those who do not believe in him to Hell, an eternity of suffering.

God does not send people to hell for eternity for not believing in Him. God erases people from existence (the penalty last forever, not the suffering) after they have died who have no interest in getting to know the real God, have displayed characteristics of evil that are not inline with His kingdom, or who have got to know the real God but have rejected Him. I would put you in the category atm of not fully knowing the true character of God just yet (so the God you think you have rejected is not really who He is) but displaying characteristics that are inline with His kingdom.

Would you be interested in reading material that will help you to better get to know God on a personal level and know His try character?
edit on 6-3-2013 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 01:13 AM
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Originally posted by StruggleTogether

Originally posted by Tardacus
god is busy he has a whole universe to take care of he doesn`t have time to micromanage every second of every life here on earth.
The bible says that the entire life span of a man is but the blink of an eye to god,our entire 80 or 90 years of life on this planet is less than 1 second in god time.
in the grand scheme of eternity 1 second is nothing, so does it make sense to think that god is going to micro manage our lives and intervene in them just to save us from 1 second of pain and discomfort?

I imagine it`s kind of like when a baby gets a vaccination, it`s just a quick little prick with a needle and in the grand scheme of the baby`s entire life it`s really insignificant, but to the baby it`s the worst pain that has ever happened to him in his short life and probably seems like it will never end.by the time he is 50 years old he won`t even remember getting the vaccine and he sure won`t remember the pain.

a million years from now we won`t remember the pain and turmoils of our lives here on earth.
so, i think that preventing us from experiencing pain and turmoil here on earth is probably pretty low on gods priority list.
edit on 2-3-2013 by Tardacus because: (no reason given)


I'm not necessarily saying that God needs to micromanage each and everyone of us (although being the creator of everything, time should be of no obstacle to him). If you were to set up a scientific experiment you would remove everything that could potentially harm/alter/destroy/cause unintended side effects towards what you are trying to observe*. You wouldn't leave unnecessary/harmful objects in your experiment and just ignore them because your busy doing something else. In this sense, why can't God just remove these harmful things in life? Why even have disease or starvation? *I understand God may not be observing in a scientific endeavor, but I felt it was a decent allusion.

reply to post by Lionhearte
 



...I am happy to hear that you were able to relieve your mother of pain through the power of prayer, but I have never witnessed such a sight. My mother has been a devote Christian since I was born and she too, has never witnessed anything of this nature. It is becoming increasingly difficult for her because of this. She has been losing faith and has grown depressed because she hasn't had her prayers answered or the pain she feels lifted. I do not talk about these matters with my mother because I don't want to hurt her beliefs, but why has she not experienced what you have? Why have so many prayers gone unanswered, so much pain gone unnoticed, and so much death gone unwarranted? I am terrifically happy for the what you got to experience during that moment, but I feel as though your case is not the norm.

I haven't mentioned Satan because I simply haven't felt it necessary really. If I don't believe in God I don't believe in his opposition. So God sends 1,000's of missionaries to Africa to help alleviate the problems there. Why does he not simply end it all himself? Why did he even let it begin in the first place?
edit on 3-3-2013 by StruggleTogether because: (no reason given)


reply to post by Lionhearte
 


But aren't we created in God's image? Why would we be created imperfect? If God intends for us all to go to Heaven and live an eternity of perpetual serenity, why not just create that? It seems rather odd to have this two step process of sorting us out when he is creating us in his own image.
edit on 3-3-2013 by StruggleTogether because: (no reason given)


Yes, it was God's plan, His one plan. We didn't start out with a fallen nature, Adam and Eve were given preternatural gifts which they lost when they chose to sin. But this is how merciful and loving God is, remember for yourself. In private revelation, it is revealed, part of those lost gifts, Adam saw the consequences of his sin on all of us. He still chose to sin. But, like Peter, he repented after sinning and is now with God in Heaven.

Here, 2 paragraphs from the Catechism, one of the footnotes (598) references is 1 John 3:2. I love paragraph
#1024.

~ ~ ~


II. HEAVEN

1023 Those who die in God's grace and friendship and are perfectly purified live for ever with Christ. They are like God for ever, for they "see him as he is," face to face:598

1024 This perfect life with the Most Holy Trinity - this communion of life and love with the Trinity, with the Virgin Mary, the angels and all the blessed - is called "heaven." Heaven is the ultimate end and fulfillment of the deepest human longings, the state of supreme, definitive happiness.





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