Is God a Violent being?

reply to post by CagliostroTheGreat


I would think that "God" could never be described in human terms because in reality, we have absolutely no idea what "God" is other than what has been passed down to us through the centuries.

To ask the question, "Is God a Violent Being" is really asking is god human. These types of questions are the beginning of the human need to believe in a god that is human and/or human like so that we can attach ourselves to he/she/it.

The concept of God isn't about God. It's about being human and the need to believe in a higher power. The belief in the higher power provides, law, order, structure, hope, love......etc. God does not need us. We need he/she/it.

Originally posted by framedragged
A lot of you seem to be missing the point the OP made...

To survive you must kill. You're an omnivore? Animals and plants died for you to live. You're a vegetarian? Plants died for you. You're a fruitarian? That's a lot of plant abortions you're committing to sustain yourself.

Life does not exist without taking it from other sources and concentrating it.

If you read the following Bible verses you will see that living things and plants are placed into two totally separate categories: living things, and food. Before the flood, everything, man and animal, lived on a totally vegan diet:

Genesis 6:19&21(KJV)
19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

21 And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them.

In the Bible plants are not referred to as alive, like humans and animals are. It never says plants die. It says they wither:

Psalm 37:2(KJV)
2 For they shall soon be cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb.

Mark 11:21(KJV)
21 And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away.

Creatures of flesh are the only things that are said to have life in them:

Leviticus 17:14(KJV)
14 For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off.

Since Adam and Eve, all the way up until Jesus was crucified, the children of God have known that the sacrifice of clean animals was to signify that they knew and accepted the fact that someday a Savior would come to be the ultimate sacrifice, which will take away the sins of the world. When Cain and Abel brought their offerings before God, Cain's offering was not accepted because he simply brought part of his harvest. Abel's offering was accepted because it was an animal which had blood that could be shed for the remission of sin:

Hebrews 9:22(KJV)
22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

When a person maintains a vegan diet, the way God originally intended us to, we are not killing anything because by God's standards, plants are not alive to begin with.

OP: In the Garden of Eden, everything lived on a vegan diet. It wasn't until Adam and Even sinned that the world began to deteriorate. People used to be very tall, but are now much shorter. People used to live for close to 1,000 years, but now do not live anywhere near that long. Even the animal kingdom was affected by man's fall; one such way you have already mentioned. God did not create it this way. Man brought it into the world when he fell into sin due to Satan's temptation.

When all is said and done, and everything is made anew, animals and humans will go back to the original diet.

Isaiah 65:25(KJV)
25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord.

reply to post by jeramie

Hi Jeremie

You Wrote: QUOTE

"If you read the following Bible verses you will see that living things and plants are placed into two totally separate categories: living things, and food. Before the flood, everything, man and animal, lived on a totally vegan diet:

Genesis 6:19&21(KJV)
19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female. " etc.

UNQUOTE

What do bible verses have to do with any universal idea 'God'?

Presumably when YOU speak of 'god' you refer to YHWH the post Exilic clan-god of Yisro'el.

You know...a CLAN god of an origiinally illiterate tribe of semi-nomads lost in the desert (with their portable tent-dwelling deity) who had to steal (or more politely, 'borrow') an aleph-bet from the Canaanite Phoenecians since they had no written language of their own...

And the reasons you're citing words pertaining to that vicious clan god (whose obscene hobbies seem to include genociding Amalekites) are ___________ (fill in the blank)

What about all those other 500 million gods & goddesses like Vishnu?

Or the god Dagon? or the goddess Astarte?

or the god Ba'al? or the god Brahma?

or the god Enlil? or the goddess Aset?

or the god Zeus? or the god Wodin?

or the goddess Hecate? or the god Nebo?

or the god Allah? or the goddess Nephthys?

or the god Wusir (Osiris)? or the god Bast?

or the goddess Diana? or the god Pan?

or the god Cronus? or the goddess Hathor?

or the god Cerrunos (Kherunah)? or the god Apollo?

or the god Aten? or the god Ganesha?

or the god Loki? or the god Rama?

or the god Krsna? or the god Shamash?

or the god Yam? or the god Lotan (=post exilic Heb. 'Leviatan')\

or the goddess Asherah? or the god Attanuzzi (=Attamuz or Attanuz/Adonis) ?

or the goddess Venus (Aphrodite)? or the god Ares-Mars?

or the god Poseidon? or the goddess Kore?

or the god Attis? or the goddess Kubaba?

Why do you ALWAYS defer back to YHWH the clan god of the Jews when talking about the idea of 'god'? Is there a reason you can give me that makes any sense at all?

Don't any of these far less Nature loving, and far less-vicious and hateful, sexist and xenophobic deities count for anythnig?

reply to post by CagliostroTheGreat


This is a tough question to answer, no matter what your faith is. It is perfectly valid to wonder why nature wasn't created in some manner that did not require death in order to live. Normally when somebody asks why there is death in the world or why the gods allow death, I answer by explaining the cycle of nature and the wheel of life and death but... you asked why nature itself is like that. That sort of stumps me.

Again, I'll answer with "that's nature" but that doesn't explain the why of it. There needs to always be something to strive for in order to perfect our species. I am optimistic in humanity and fully expect it to be taboo to eat meat or commit violence someday in the future. So maybe my answer would be that getting humanity to the point of non-violence is such a divine goal and task that it's the ultimate test of our worthiness. Just a guess.

As far as how I reconcile that question with my own goddess, I just tell myself that "it's nature".

Originally posted by WhoKnows100
A lion, with it's talons and...

Just curious... do you think this is a lion?

All of you are acting like spoiled deities. And squabbling. ?why dont you all ask sirE what she thinks. She would probably say "it's all random, sweetie!"

reply to post by Sigismundus


You didn't mention Cthulhu. Cthulhu mad!

religion is a sickness of the mind.

It afflicts the weak and the lost.

it's main symptom is ignorance and apathy.

It leads to delusions of grandeur, and finally if combined with weapons, spreads itself to others by force.

Nature is survival of the fittest. A swarm will devour a single creature.

Sure it's nice to be pleasant to others. We have that luxury. We've fabricated a world where the lucky need for nothing and confuse need with want. But we've made it possible to live without having to really put much effort in.

nature is thriving in excess, and perishing in depletion.

god.. without religion is nature.

Look at how we trash our living quarters. The Landlord has to evict the tenants once in a while.

Yes, god destroys mankind when needed, not the devil. The devil only tests us, he cannot personally kill us. He can deceive us into do his bidding. Greed of man and desire for power causes much suffering and death. This is not the doing of god.

How would this question be asked if the who asked it had power to move - Grow energy that IS eternal. Even if that energy being moved didn't fully understand the process. Due to it being the Created and Matured.

Great questions and ideas posed by the original poster....I would encourage people to look at Steve Wells' site where he keeps a great blog and also has published a book called Drunk with Blood

He just outlines, one by one, the genocidal, homicidal, incestuous, psychopathic, and sexually deviant acts that "God' i.e. Jehovah/Yahweh committed as described in the Bible.

Read the list. You'll see it's no different than crazy Zeus, insane Ra, nasty ass Marduk, or any other of the famed gods and goddesses of yore.

Same entities. Same nasty behavior.

And this is who we hold up as a guide about how to be good people? We use these insane beings as a measuring point, to help shape our own attitudes and behaviors?

Jews, Muslims and Christians all worship the god of Abraham -- Yahweh or Jehovah. And if you just look at al the things he is said to have done, and then you compare that, say, to what Marduk is said to have done in the Sumerian texts -- it's clearly the same being, just talked about in different time frames or in different cultural traditions.

Marduk of course was one of the Sumerian ET's or interdimensional beings who messed around with humanity in ancient times, setting themselves up as our gods and goddesses. Marduk was also Ra in ancient Egypt and the feathered serpent god of Meso-America. And most likely, he was Yahweh/Jehovah, too.

Just look, coldly and logically, at all this entity is said to have actually done as outlined in the Old Testament.

Why would anybody follow the "guidance" of a clinical psychopath?

We all need to be firing our gods and reclaiming our spirituality, which has been hijacked for aeons by a host of nasty, inverse, and evil beings.

reply to post by Tindalos2013

Hi Tindalos

Poor Chthulu - I also forgot to mention the godThor & the male sex god Priapas and millions of others that surely are as worthy of worship as some middle eastern racist god YHWH whose priests tout genocide and place commands of extermination into the god's mouth as part of their core beliefs document (aka the Torah) -

see this discussion of mine for an eye-opener about YHWH's racist extermination laws, which is why 'devouut Torah abiding Jews' in antiquity were regarded as 'misanthropes and haters of humanity'

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I suppose if the Torah was not the absolute core of Judaism none of this would stick, but there you are. These passages make Adolf Hitler look like PeeWee Herman !

reply to post by CagliostroTheGreat


Could a world where only plant eating animals exist allow for animals to develop human type consciousness? By that I mean absolutely no predators and these animals are allowed to reproduce, with no real threat to there lives except old age? My impression is that there are consistencies in nature that allow for development and that "survival of the fittest" is probably very relevant.

One way of looking at creation is in relation to a farm, with God as the farmer. This being that God created the conditions need for life to form.

Does God have Free Will? Would you like to think of yourself as reasonably positive? Can you still be wrathful and jealous, even violent, at times? Is God a Macrocosm of you?

All worlds pass through cycles of death and re-birth, i.e. the generation of new life. It depends on which part of the cycle you are looking at. The start of life is a beautiful moment in any universe, but rewind the recording a little and you witness the previous 'death'. When a seed germinates, new life bursts forth, leaving broken bits of kernel at its heart. You may say, it was only a seed, but life would not have started without its destruction. Yes, God is violent (speaking of God as the energy of the universe) because the quest of all life passes through phases of violence.

reply to post by Chrisfishenstein


If god is not violent then why did he create hell? Why did he create us so we could sin and end up in hell for eternity? If "God" is all powerful then he had a choice in how to create life and he chose to make us capable of failing and ending up in hell. The "God" in the Holy Bible and most other fabricated religions are Evil beings like it or not.

Now having said that there is a small chance that their is a creator that is unlike anything described in mans mythical "Gods". The "Gods" as described in human religions simply do not make sense. They are not intelligent beings and definately driven by violence and Evil as defined by humanity.

reply to post by CagliostroTheGreat
Actions speak louder than words, don't they? So it's no surprise people get tired of the rhetoric about a loving, caring god, when 'his' actions show a different story. But then they give you the old "but we can't understand god's mind" crap. If that were true, god's morals aren't comprehensible when compared to the highest of our own, which makes no sense whatsoever. The god of the bible and koran shows all the traits of a megalomaniac... complete and total narcissism and sociopathy, demanding 'his' (surprise, they made him male) subjects grovel before him like slaves, while he accepts no responsibility for the world or our plight whatsoever.

As Carlin said:
"Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

But He loves you."

It is probably worthwhile to note that "Yahweh", is not the same thing as the One Infinite Creator.

Your Creator, the one you have called 'Yahweh', is not "God" inasmuch as your bible refers to him as being "the One True God". He is 'a' Creator (or Sub-Sub-Logos) rather than the One Infinite Creator. He is not even a Galactic level Logos, but rather, is the Planetary Logos for this one planet.

It is explained in more detail herein-

Yahweh, due to the fact that he had NOT (as was his right as Planetary Logos) handed down his own Free Will to "know thyself" to those incarnating upon 'his' planet, was having very little evolutionary progress therein. So we (Lucifer) were sent to help. Once the order was given from the Council of Elders, we "Fell", or Descended back to a place where we could, with hard work and focus, once again materialize a 3rd Density manifestation of ourself.

Yahweh had agreed to our coming, in fact it was he who had initially asked the Council for a "Catalyst" of change to enter into his Creation, and share the knowledge and wisdom we had attained through our Ascensions. In the absence of Free Will upon the planet, there can be no Polarity, and therefore, nothing to 'choose' between. Just as is portrayed in the book of Genesis, the planet was very "Edenic" in nature. Sure, it was a lovely 'paradise', yet the Beings incarnating there had no agitator toward evolving beyond the 3rd Density, and therefore, little hope of ever making the journey Home, to The One.

Yahweh has been happy to keep his own little pet Eden Project in effect, but with little chance of the Souls here making it Home, it had become in effect, an albeit very beautiful 'Prison'. Yahweh was, in modern parlance, running a benign dictatorship. ...... Without Polarity, (derived from Free Will), there is only the Unity of Love and Light, and no choice to experience 'other than' that. So, we were to be the Catalyst for change, in order to provide that choice, thus bringing Polarity. Yahweh agreed that we would introduce the concept of Free Will to Earth's inhabitants, by offering them an initial choice, as to whether they 'wanted' it or not. Hence, "The Tree of the Knowledge of 'Good and Evil'" (or more accurately, the Knowledge of Polarity, of Positive or Negative).

Yahweh takes his inhabitants to a new 'garden' and tells them you can do anything you like, except this one thing, thus creating the desire to do the one thing there are told they cannot. Hence, a "Choice". We provide the Catalyst by telling them the benefits of attaining Knowledge, they eat from the tree, and the rest is history. Yahweh thought that his 'Children' would still choose to obey him, and when he discovered they did not, he became angry.

As he himself describes in his scriptures, he is a "Jealous God", and he did not like it that his 'children' had chose to disobey him, and follow our advice. We're already committed to being here for a predefined set of "Cycles" to help provide the Catalyst for Human evolution, namely by offering you the Negative Option, or that which you choose to call "evil". Now that Free Will had been granted, Yahweh could not retract it, and we have to stay here as contracted to continue to provide the planet with the Polarity choice.

Since then, Yahweh has confined us (as a Group Soul) here within the Earth's Astral Planes (which is very constricting and uncomfortable for a Being of our Wisdom and experience). The Council of Elders gave us the choice to be released (against Yahweh's will), but at the cancellation of our contract to Serve the planet earth; or to remain and fulfil our assignment, and endure Yahweh's self proclaimed "Wrath". We stayed, but as a karmic result of our Group Soul's confinement by Yahweh, our own individuated Souls were given the mandate (by The Council) to "Rule" over Yahweh's people during our physical incarnations here on your planet.

When it comes to ancient culture I feel it is very important to consider that Columbus reached what was then called a "New World". The idea of the difference between say Egyptians and Mayans, then, was probably very similar to the idea of discovering alien life life today on another planet. Then Yahweh was a deity equivalent to Zeus, Jupiter or Ra and in so much as interpretation politics played a role. Consider that the "Thou shall not kill rule" was not interpreted as related to leaders of countries. With respect to Shakespeare and King Lear a response being that the King would suffer responsibility for such a decision.

With respect to the Holy Bible there really is no direct citation to the idea that the Earth is a sphere. There is also Psalm 137 verses 8 and 9, which is clearly not reflective of any modern day definition of God. There is also the matter that the term "devil" in the ancient context was significant, with respect to the cultures in question. As a person who advocated the innocence of a person the majority thought guilty.

Suggesting that God is violent because in nature there is violence presents a certain difficulty, this being that God created something that was real

reply to post by Chrisfishenstein


I understand where you are coming from but my main question was why do we need to kill just to survive?

someone mentioned they have always seen this (killing to survive) as an act of sacrficial love. Well, this is basically proving my point, if god were an omnipotent being and ultimately good, why would he force us to take the lives of other beings just to live?