(Assuming they are Real) What Are Chemtrails For?

reply to post by Phage


Please go back and review my post. I really hate repeating myself.
I outlined it with cited examples on the very first page. I don't know how they could equip the airplane or what equipment would be used to spread the material, but I did link to a company that appears to supply the necessary materials.

reply to post by stars15k

Sorry, but I'm a linear thinker. So bending my mind to find ways to fit theories does not compute.

OK, HAL. You must be a real drag at parties.

HAARP has nothing to do with "chemtrails",

Please explain.

unless you believe in multiple conspiracies,

I do.

with all the players working together. This makes logistics all the harder.....more people, more meetings to 'bend their minds", and more chance for someone to mess up the security.

I believe in compartmentalization and understand how it works to keep people from seeing the entire picture and keep secrets.

HAARP does what it is made to do, for the reason it was made for, and nothing else.

Which is...?

It's far too small to do what you claim.

How do you know this? How big do you think it would have to be?

It is also far from being a closed secret......

I never said HAARP was a secret. I simply believe that we're not being told about all it can do.

if you are in Alaska in the spring and summer, you can visit it. They even have open house events, complete with researchers to answer your questions. Heck, you can even email the people up there, when they are there, and ask them what is going on. During the winter, they have a local/locals go to the site everyday, unlock the building for a quick inspection to make sure the heat is still on. Hardly a big secret.

Thanks, but I'm not that interested in it and have better things to spend my vacation time and money on.

So why do you think otherwise? Conspiracy sites that speculate or real research from the people who work with it? I would only accept the latter.

You didn't read the sources I liked to in my post, did you?

reply to post by Afterthought

In your first post:

Your first link makes no mention of the use of particles.

Your second link makes no mention of the use of particles.

Your third link makes no mention of the use of particles except for charged particles in the ionosphere. Not really applicable to "chemtrails".

Your forth link quotes scripture but makes no mention of the use of particles.


Now, if the theory is that "chemtrails" in conjunction with HAARP can alter weather can you explain how that would work?

reply to post by Afterthought


Not even close to HAL. And I am lots of fun at parties, too. Being a linear thinker just means I look at part A and the logical step needed to arrive at B, well before making a declaration about part P. I don't need to bend my mind around things, I try to learn so I understand things. Big difference.
The only people who believe HAARP and "chemtrails" are connected are conspiracy theorists who tend to tie things together willy-nilly, declaring part P is such and such before understanding what part P really is.
Why should I explain HAARP to you? Look it up yourself. Go to their site, read the reports......It's called research, and you need to do that for yourself. I cannot learn for you.
How do I know it's not powerful enough? Because I have read the reports. It's called research. So I can learn.
So why do you think it can do more than claimed? What is your source for this information? I'd gladly read it, but having read the reports I've read, I know what is a good source and what isn't. Trump their science.
Something we've heard before. Why spend the money to learn, when you can stay home and speculate.
Which post is that? The post I replied to has no links. I looked.

reply to post by Phage


I guess I wasn't clear in my last post, so I'll rephrase.
It's my belief that metallic particles are being released into the atmosphere and that HAARP is affecting these particles to modify the weather to alter the climate and/or assist in warfare. I wasn't meaning that the cited sources mentioned the particles specifically. I was just meaning that they discussed HAARP. The company I linked to is who I believe supplies the particulate materials that HAARP needs to accomplish what's mentioned in the sources I linked to.
From the first source:

Established in 1992, HAARP, based in Gokona, Alaska, is an array of high-powered antennas that transmit, through high-frequency radio waves, massive amounts of energy into the ionosphere (the upper layer of the atmosphere). Their construction was funded by the US Air Force, the US Navy and the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA). Operated jointly by the Air Force Research Laboratory and the Office of Naval Research, HAARP constitutes a system of powerful antennas capable of creating ‘controlled local modifications of the ionosphere’. According to its official website, www.haarp.alaska.edu , HAARP will be used ‘to induce a small, localized change in ionospheric temperature so physical reactions can be studied by other instruments located either at or close to the HAARP site’.

The above mentioned are the ones I mentioned in my Op and I believe that the high-frequency radio waves would need to bounce off of these metallic particles to accomplish the goal(s).

From the second source:

HAARP has been presented to public opinion as a program of scientific and academic research. US military documents seem to suggest, however, that HAARP's main objective is to "exploit the ionosphere for Department of Defense purposes." (quoted in Chossudovsky, op cit).

Without explicitly referring to the HAARP program, a US Air Force study points to the use of "induced ionospheric modifications" as a means of altering weather patterns as well as disrupting enemy communications and radar. (Ibid)

HAARP also has the ability of triggering blackouts and disrupting the electricity power system of entire regions.

An analysis of statements emanating from the US Air Force points to the unthinkable: the covert manipulation of weather patterns, communications systems and electric power as a weapon of global warfare, enabling the US to disrupt and dominate entire regions of the World.

Again, HAARP and those I stated earlier of suspected involvement are mentioned.
Wouldn't they need metallic particles in the air to accomplish disrupting communications and electrical power?

From my third source:

Project Argus
This gigantic experiment created new (inner) magnetic radiation belts encompassing almost the whole earth, and injected sufficient electrons and other energetic particles into the ionosphere to cause world wide effects. The electrons traveled back and forth along magnetic force lines, causing an artificial "aurora" when striking the atmosphere near the North Pole.

This is mentioning energetic particles. I don't know what is exactly meant by this, but REALE seems as though they might have just this in their inventory since they can and do supply various nanoparticulates.
Also from the third source:

The US Military planned to create a "telecommunications shield" in the ionosphere, reported in 13-20 August 1961, Keesings Historisch Archief (K.H.A.). This shield would be created "in the ionosphere at 3,000 km height, by bringing into orbit 350,000 million copper needles, each 2-4 cm long [total weight 16 kg], forming a belt 10 km thick and 40 km wide, the needles spaced about 100 m apart." This was designed to replace the ionosphere "because telecommunications are impaired by magnetic storms and solar flares." The US planned to add to the number of copper needles if the experiment proved to be successful. This plan was strongly opposed by the Intentional Union of Astronomers.

Copper needles aren't exactly particles, but the plan was to put them in the air. I'm sure REALE could make these needles however they specified.

From the fourth source, you didn't read enough. Just scripture? Pfft!

In a nutshell, this is the nucleus of the expertise just recently acquired to control the weather. By pouring measured energy that has been focussed into certain parts of the ionosphere, scientists can create all kinds of storms like hurricanes, thunderstorms, floods, tornadoes, and drought. In NEWS1198, "U.N. Treaty Proves Weather Control Is Real", we report news articles that Malaysia actually contracted with a Russian Weather Modification company to create a hurricane that would be directed close enough to clear the smoke and smog from Malaysia's cities

I've run out of characters, but I'm sure you get the point I'm trying to make.

Well, your sources are somewhat lacking. At least to me. I am looking at "HAARP New World Order...". It is a list of proposals and studies not operations. That they are all glommed together by someone doesn't make it real.
Read it again. Look for real active phrases. Like "is happening", "are doing", "has been working", "is now doing".

Not finding them. Finding lots of things that show things were "proposed", "studied", "might", "could", "may be".....nothing conclusive, nothing actually happening. All speculation.

And the sources are self-serving. The one's that work at least. Sourced from a book "Angels Don't Play that HAARP"? Really?
Sorry, but a real source shows what steps were taken to come to the conclusion. They do each part over and over, to show repeatability. Then they are peer-reviewed.
They don't just write articles and credit their sources to the books they have written.

reply to post by Afterthought

The above mentioned are the ones I mentioned in my Op and I believe that the high-frequency radio waves would need to bounce off of these metallic particles to accomplish the goal(s).

The quote from the first source is accurate. HAARP affects a region of the ionosphere above the installation.

The quote from the second source makes unsubstantiated claims about the ability of HAARP to affect weather.

The first quote from the third source makes no mention of weather, nor does the second quote.

Copper needles aren't exactly particles, but the plan was to put them in the air. I'm sure REALE could make these needles however they specified.

You'd better read that a bit more carefully, in relation to your statement about "air".

The quote from the forth source makes an unsubstantiated claim.

I've run out of characters, but I'm sure you get the point I'm trying to make.

Yes, you are trying to make a point based on unsubstantiated claims. You still haven't explained the theory of how HAARP can be used in conjunction with "chemtrail" particles to affect weather. You say that radio waves could be "bounced" off of particles but you don't say how that would be used to affect weather.

I should point out that high frequency radio waves don't really "bounce" off of particles very well.

reply to post by Phage


First, I'm not a scientist. I'm just proposing a theory based on what HAARP can do and how radio waves are affected by metal and are carried through the air.
Sure, the claims are unsubstantiated, but that's the fun of seeing what's available and how it COULD be used to reach their desired goals of controlling the weather and assisting in warfare.
So, based on your knowledge, it would never be remotely possible to spread metallic or nano particles into the atmosphere (at whatever level) and have HAARP bounce off or charge these particles to create/destroy a storm or affect communications.
On a side note, since we already know that contrails help to trap heat and HAARP supposedly can heat the ionosphere, wouldn't it be possible to use these bases to doubly heat the atmosphere over an area (even without metallic particles) to affect the weather?

Oh, dear.......when will people learn that a research paper written as an assignment in a school is not the same thing as a approved, operational, real military project? It's not secret, it's not classified, it's available online, and /group of students wrote it for gosh sakes!
And this is proof that HAARP does what again?
And that three sources that all say the same thing and use the same articles in the same way do not really count as three sources. When the sources are all linked together like this, they are self-serving.

reply to post by Afterthought

So, based on your knowledge, it would never be remotely possible to spread metallic or nano particles into the atmosphere (at whatever level) and have HAARP bounce off or charge these particles to create/destroy a storm or affect communications.

Based on my knowledge, no. Radio waves don't work that way. Any effects that HAARP may have on communications would be by affecting the ionosphere and it doesn't need "spraying" to do that.

On a side note, since we already know that contrails help to trap heat and HAARP supposedly can heat the ionosphere, wouldn't it be possible to use these bases to doubly heat the atmosphere over an area (even without metallic particles) to affect the weather?

No. Because HAARP can only affect ions (charged particles). Below the ionosphere there are too few ions and too many neutral particles for HAARP to have any effect.

reply to post by stars15k

Thanks for finally reading the sources I linked to. They may not be up to your standards, but at least they're interesting and creative. If you lived back when Columbus set sail, you'd be the one screaming he's stupid for believing the oceans continued past the horizon.
I'm so happy I read part of a fiction novel before falling asleep each night. You should try it.

reply to post by Phage


I'm not a climatologist; but, I remember what I learned about the water cycle in third grade. I think that if you can heat the area above or near a source of water(they might even heat the oceans themselves at times, causing these massive fish die offs and unusual marine animal behaviors), you would increase the rate of cloud/storm formations. Then, by laying out a path of chemtrails(not necessarily to "bounce" HAARP energy, but to absorb it), you could focus pockets of heat in the atmosphere and, in essence, control the trajectory and intensity of storm systems. Anyone, feel free to add something. And if you think this is just sci-fi, remember, the Navy recently used HAARP to create plasma clouds and Scottish and Czech scientist just build a miniature tractor beam...I don't think anything is out of the realm of possibilities these days. I know, it is scary, but everything will be fine.

reply to post by Phage

Science is making leaps and bounds in regards to charged nano particles though.
www.sciencedaily.com...

In order to observe the individual particles in a solution, Prof. Madhavi Krishnan and her co-workers "entice" each particle into an "electrostatic trap." It works like this: between two glass plates the size of a chip, the researchers create thousands of round energy holes. The trick is that these holes have just a weak electrostatic charge. The scientists than add a drop of the solution to the plates, whereupon each particle falls into an energy hole and remains trapped there. But the particles do not remain motionless in their trap. Instead, molecules in the solution collide with them continuously, causing the particles to move in a circular motion.

This is not related to particles injected into the atmosphere, but I don't see how it couldn't be used for that as well. Storm systems like hurricanes also move in circular motions.

Anyways, there's a lot about nano particles (NP) being studied and experimented with that isn't being broadcast.
www.pnl.gov...

2.8. Engineered inorganic NP
Engineered inorganic NP cover a broad range of substances
including elemental metals, metal oxides and metal salts. Elemental silver is used in many products as bactericide (Morones et al., 2005), whereas elemental gold is explored for many possible applications and its catalytic activity (Brust and Liely, 2002). The use of nanoscale zero-valent iron (nZVI) for
groundwater remediation ranks as the most widely investigated environmental nanotechnological application (Nowack, in press). Metallic iron is very effective in degrading a wide variety of common contaminants such as chlorinated methanes, brominated methanes, trihalomethanes, chlorinated ethenes, chlorinates benzenes, other polychlorinated hydrocarbons, pesticides and dyes (Zhang, 2003). Successful
results from field demonstrations using nZVI have been published, with injection of 1.7e
400 kg of NP into the groundwater (Elliott and Zhang, 2001; Quinn et al., 2005).
To date approximately 30 projects are under way where nZVI is
used for site remediation (Li et al., 2006a).
Nanoparticulate metal oxides are among the most used NP (Aitken et al., 2006). Bulk materials of TiO 2, SiO
2 and aluminum and iron oxides have been produced for many years.

I firmly believe that if one can imagine it, it is possible. The fact that READE has nano particles available to anyone who can afford them frightens the bejesus out of me. How is this stuff regulated? How is it being used and who is purchasing it?
From the same source as the above text:

Within the cells NP are stored in certain locations (e.g. in-
side vesicles, mitochondria) and are able to exert a toxic re-
sponse. The small particle size, a large surface area and the
ability to generate reactive oxygen species play a major role
in toxicity of NP (Nel et al., 2006). Inflammation and fibrosis
are effects observed on an organism level, whereas oxidative
stress, antioxidant activity and cytotoxicity are observed
effects on a cellular level (Oberdörster et al., 2005). Several
respiratory and cardiovascular diseases in humans are caused
by BC (Avakian et al., 2002; Morawska and Zhang, 2002;
Armstrong et al., 2004).

Are we absolutely sure that these substance can't be/aren't being released into the atmosphere without our knowledge?

reply to post by stars15k


The following article is from the Official United Nations Website: Special Committee on Decolonization
5th & 6th Meetings (AM & PM)

www.un.org...

"ALEDIA CENTENO RODRIGUEZ, Frente Patriotico Arecibeño, said her organization had spoken last year on the United States strategy to authorize a nuclear weapons production facility in Puerto Rico, in violation of the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. She explained that Arecibo was home to the Arecibo National Astronomy and Ionospheric Centre (NAIC), which was used as an “ionospheric heater” [an array of antennae which are used for heating the uppermost part of the atmosphere]. Arecibo was also mentioned as a test-site for the High Frequency Active Auroral Research Programme (HAARP), in a patent filed by an individual in the United States, to conducted experiments related to ionospheric manipulation. HAARP could function as an anti-missile and anti-aircraft defence system, permit interception and disruption of communications, weather and submarine and subterranean communications, among other things. The HAARP patent papers also stated that the invention could “simulate and perform the same function as performed by the detonation of a heavy type nuclear device”."

Check it out for yourself.

reply to post by drockEst1983

Then, by laying out a path of chemtrails(not necessarily to "bounce" HAARP energy, but to absorb it),

Same problem, HF radio waves are niether "bounced" nor absorbed by neutral particles.

you could focus pockets of heat in the atmosphere and, in essence, control the trajectory and intensity of storm systems.

Have you calculated the amount of power required to do that? Ignoring the fact that HAARP can't really affect neutral particles. Ignoring the fact that HAARP can only affect a region of the ionosphere above the installation.

And if you think this is just sci-fi, remember, the Navy recently used HAARP to create plasma clouds

Yes. In the ionosphere. At an altitude of 170km. Last time I checked that is space, not the atmosphere. Not a lot of weather up there.

Scottish and Czech scientist just build a miniature tractor beam

Well, it was actually a laser beam and it wouldn't work with radio frequencies.

I know, it is scary, but everything will be fine.

I think it's fascinating but not so scary.

The weather control theory of "chemtrails" doesn't really work too well, especially if HAARP has to be used.

reply to post by Phage

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by drockEst1983

 

Then, by laying out a path of chemtrails(not necessarily to "bounce" HAARP energy, but to absorb it),

Same problem, HF radio waves are niether "bounced" nor absorbed by neutral particles.

you could focus pockets of heat in the atmosphere and, in essence, control the trajectory and intensity of storm systems.

Have you calculated the amount of power required to do that? Ignoring the fact that HAARP can't really affect neutral particles. Ignoring the fact that HAARP can only affect a region of the ionosphere above the installation.

And if you think this is just sci-fi, remember, the Navy recently used HAARP to create plasma clouds

Yes. In the ionosphere. At an altitude of 170km. Last time I checked that is space, not the atmosphere. Not a lot of weather up there.

Scottish and Czech scientist just build a miniature tractor beam

Well, it was actually a laser beam and it wouldn't work with radio frequencies.

I know, it is scary, but everything will be fine.

I think it's fascinating but not so scary.

The weather control theory of "chemtrails" doesn't really work too well, especially if HAARP has to be used.

edit on 3/3/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Can you prove plasma clouds can be formed in space as you say?
You did say yes to the navy recently used HAARP to create plasma clouds in space did you not?

reply to post by fireyaguns

Can you prove plasma clouds can be formed in space as you say?

Not unless you understand how they were created. Not unless you understand what a plasma cloud is. But if you did understand those things I wouldn't have to explain it to you.

You did say yes to the navy recently used HAARP to create plasma clouds in space did you not?

Yes. Yes I did. And you quoted me saying it.

Jeesze, I'm really tired of this. NOW hear this! There is nobody flying planes (except crop dusters) dumping pixie dust on the USA! I was 10 years old when I was up and about in a 1918 Thomas-Morse S4B Scout (biplane) and from there went to many bases around the world. Nothing! Its Nothing. Really.

UFO'S yes! Chemtrails as reported on Coast to Coast etc...NO!

reply to post by fireyaguns


www.nrl.navy.mil...

Here you go, I posted this earlier. This is on the official Navy Research Laboratory Website.

reply to post by drockEst1983


Thank you!
No surprise seeing DARPA in on that.