FWC Recovers Thousands of Stolen Artifacts

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posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 09:39 AM
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FWC Recovers Thousands of Stolen Artifacts


www.wctv.tv

Tallahassee, FL - The Florida Department of State and the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) says they've recovered thousands of pieces of stolen arrowheads, tools and other historical artifacts in what they're calling one of the largest busts of its kind.

FWC says those arrests led to the confiscation of thousands of artifacts totaling roughly $2 million dollars.

"This looting incident didn't just take artifacts out of the ground. it took history away from this generation and future generations of Florida,"
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 09:39 AM
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Looting? They are calling picking up an arrowhead out of a river "looting". Don't let them fool you, this is not one of the biggest busts of its kind ever.

It IS the biggest bust of this kind EVER.

and they're not done! There are still 20+ more people of interest, yesterday they hit Florida, today or tomorrow they will hit Georgia.

It is next to impossible to obtain a permit to even surface collect off of state property. There are countless archeological studies that went nowhere because plantation owners won't even let professional archeologists on they're property, mustless dig.

This is an outrage! I knew a couple of these guys personally and they weren't all artifact dealers. A few of them would rent tables at every local artifact show and sell NOTHING. They were just showing people history! Unlike the museum in my town, which houses thousands of artifacts yet displays not a single one!

This is not a coordinated effort to "stop looting". This is a coordinated effort to STOP LEARNING!

TO HIDE HISTORY!

Some of these guys are being charged with hundreds of felonies, they will never get out of prison, and all they were doing was sharing history.

www.wctv.tv
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 09:52 AM
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Sad story.
Look through plowed fields here in PA, and you will find arrowheads. I think it is silly to send people to jail for this and waste law enforcement's time to bust someone for it. It isn't like they were looting a grave.



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 10:10 AM
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reply to post by butcherguy
 


Tons of people collect arrowheads/artifacts as a hobby. IMO its one of the best hobbies a person can have for lots of obvious reasons. This really makes me angry because 2 of the people busted so far ran major artifact websites. I go to those sites all the time and have learned so much from them. Now they'll be shut down..

I'm extremely interested in local archeology because what I was always told about the "indians" is a big lie. Its hard enough to learn already, some things you cant read, you have to see them with your own eyes. Now I guess I'm suppose to worry about going to prison should I decide to pick up a cool looking rock off the ground..
edit on 1-3-2013 by 1/2 Nephilim because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 10:16 AM
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reply to post by 1/2 Nephilim
 


Yes, I know a couple of people that collect and show artifacts (mostly arrowheads) at historical venues and one ended up donating his collection to the local historical society.

This sequester issue going on right now is 'supposed' to rob some law enforcement agencies of funding. In cases like this, it would be a good thing.



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 10:40 AM
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So technically, this is saying you're stealing the state's property...I.E...They assume ownership of everything that does or ever HAS existed within their borders. The people who actually live on the land and in the state have no right to anything, of any kind, unless permitted by the state.

Now isn't that just an interesting way to see things develop? I really DO understand the need for enforcement and prevention of looting to archaeological sites. Plundering caves and cliff dwellings are an example. This has nothing to do with that by the sound of it though and it's another case of enforcing the law while totally BLIND to circumstance or spirit. The book says such and such is, by letter, a felony so it's a case to throw that book at them? So much of this happening these days.



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 10:58 AM
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reply to post by 1/2 Nephilim
 


I've been going to the river looking for arrowheads since I was a kid. I'm not going to stop now. One man's trash is another man's treasure. If the state wants it they need to go get it before I do.

MOTF!



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 11:05 AM
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Most state parks in most states have regulations that you can't take anything (artifacts, flora, or fauna, etc...) from the premises. In some ways, I can see the legal side of it.... They consider that they "own" the land within their boundaries just a regular property owner would "own" their land and have rights over what you can or can't do on it. You wouldn't want your neighbor coming onto your property and digging stuff up. (yes, I realize I am "oversimplifying" this because state-owned land is PUBLIC land whereas private property is not. I'm just playing devil's advocate.)

But where does one draw the line? They want to include rivers, streams, etc....as "government owned property" and therefore under this restriction? If I have a stream or river running through MY property, I should have the right to pull whatever I want (fish, animals, artifacts, whatever...) out of it as long as I don't poison the river or cause damage downstream to someone else's property....



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 11:30 AM
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reply to post by CIAGypsy
 


If you have a stream running through your property and its big enough to get a boat through it, the state owns it. "Any navigable body of water". If you have a stream running through your property, feel free to take whatever you want out of it while noone is watching, as long as it doesn't obstruct the flow of water. If you own a piece of property with a stream running through it, dont apologize to anyone for taking whatever you want out of it.

MOTF!



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 11:37 AM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
So technically, this is saying you're stealing the state's property...I.E...They assume ownership of everything that does or ever HAS existed within their borders. The people who actually live on the land and in the state have no right to anything, of any kind, unless permitted by the state.

Now isn't that just an interesting way to see things develop? I really DO understand the need for enforcement and prevention of looting to archaeological sites. Plundering caves and cliff dwellings are an example. This has nothing to do with that by the sound of it though and it's another case of enforcing the law while totally BLIND to circumstance or spirit. The book says such and such is, by letter, a felony so it's a case to throw that book at them? So much of this happening these days.


Right, and its next to impossible to get a permit to even surface collect on state property. Your right though, this has nothing to do with "looting state creeks". You have to look at a few variables surrounding this.

A. The region, the far SE section of the US is the richest place in the whole country to find artifacts. They don't want people to know that.. If the museum in my town displayed the artifacts they house tomorrow.. 1/2 the town would quit they're job and start digging up they're back yards. That is a very very slight exaggeration.

B. The people they targeted. They list 13 but there was more, one of them.. Jacky Fuller runs a website which as of now is still up. They got a one guy and charged him with like 300 felonies, but his name is not listed in the link. I guess I can name his site because its down now. artifactsguide.com

It was a regional oriented website that focused on North FL, South GA & SE Alabama mostly. His forum was SO informative..

Like I said before, this isn't about stopping "looting", this is about stopping learning.
edit on 1-3-2013 by 1/2 Nephilim because: (no reason given)
edit on 1-3-2013 by 1/2 Nephilim because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 11:46 AM
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reply to post by MessOnTheFED!
 


Yep, you got it. The way this went down was over the coarse of 2 years. mmm, I'd say narc's but for the sake of fun lets add an h.. Narch's recorded sellers at shows saying that the artifacts they were selling were found in the river. Well, thats where they messed up.

Lessons will be learned from this and it will slow down archeological progression to almost a standstill because around here, archeo's get most of they're info from collectors (since plantation owners don't permit them access to they're property).

So now there will be major trust issues between the collectors, hunters and archeo's. When an archeo asks where something was found noone is going to give them a straight answer anymore!

"It was passed down" or "I found it on creekside private property that I have permission to dig on".

Those are the only 2 legal answers...

This is a history cover-up more than a bust. The busts are scare tactics, to bad they'll work.
edit on 1-3-2013 by 1/2 Nephilim because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 12:17 PM
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Originally posted by MessOnTheFED!
reply to post by CIAGypsy
 


If you have a stream running through your property and its big enough to get a boat through it, the state owns it. "Any navigable body of water". If you have a stream running through your property, feel free to take whatever you want out of it while noone is watching, as long as it doesn't obstruct the flow of water. If you own a piece of property with a stream running through it, dont apologize to anyone for taking whatever you want out of it.

MOTF!


I wasn't really asking a question, but making a statement. I realize that the state "owns" any navigable body of water. What I'm saying is that if they tried to apply these "rules" as they are in regards to artifacts to navigable bodies of water outside of a state park boundary, then this should be challenged all the way to the Supreme Court, if necessary.



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 12:28 PM
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reply to post by CIAGypsy
 


Well seeing as how this will hit GA next, we do have a slight difference in provisions here that will make it harder for the suspects to be convicted.



Is it ever legal to surface collect artifacts on federal lands?

No, unless you are a professional researcher (archeologist) working for a federal agency or you have an ARPA permit to collect . However, a provision of ARPA allows the collection of arrowheads from the surface. To be sure, check with the agency managing the land you want to collect.


www.georgiaindiancouncil.org...

Edit: Forgot, I wanted to add. The deal with this provision is your allowed to pick up 3 points, max. Your not allowed to dig any deeper than 3 inches, but technically you can get away with picking up a few points on federal land.

What actually might happen is we see changes to those provisions before the busts happen in GA..
edit on 1-3-2013 by 1/2 Nephilim because: (no reason given)





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