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Why chemtrails cannot be discussed without turmoil.

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posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 02:28 PM
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and living. Furthermore, the argumentation you have used draws no correlation/link to contrails/chemtrails.
edit on 1-3-2013 by totallackey because: Further content


Yes, which is why I apologized for getting off topic......... or did you not read that yet. Topic got in to cancer partly my fault, i apologized.... get over it.




posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by SPECULUM


Debate?, what the hell good is a debate going to do other than boost your ego if you can make some point in your favor..what i know is fact, that no matter how much evidence that is brought to the table, it will be irrelevant
because the debunk crowd don't want to believe unless the government says to believe


I call lie on that.

I will accept verifiable evidence. Or even just reasonably credible evidence.

But I'm not going to accept it as credible just because you or someone else says it is credible. It has to have some validity beyond "some guy" on the internet saying it is true. And it also has to be able to withstand a bit of fairly simple scrutiny.

So far all the evidence for chemtrails fails these tests - and people get upset when that is pointed out to them.

edit on 1-3-2013 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 03:38 PM
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Yeah, but when you watch them for 2 hours when they do a heavy spray, and see how they turn into clouds that remain there for days, you know they are cloud seeding(see patents). you don't need a chemical analysis, just open your eyes and watch them.

I've been under the impression they are spraying to block out the sun rays because global warming/climate change is much worse than they are admitting to.



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 03:50 PM
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reply to post by Ghost375
 


cloud seeding (see any site that advertises that service) is very different. A small plane or small rocket, dumps silver iodide into an already existing cloud that looks like it might hold some water in hopes that it will let loose of that water and start to rain.

Cloud seeding is a well known way to "try" to induce a rain storm.
science.howstuffworks.com...

It has nothing at all to do with chemtrails/contrails.



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by brandiwine14
It's because people dont want to believe that their government would intentionally poison them.

To all those people I say... look at the back of your food labels and research what the government is putting into your food and what it does to your body then maybe you will stop being so blind.

It's not to kill us off quickly it's to weaken us and thin the herd so to speak. The weak will die off and the strong will stay just strong enough to work and continue to pay their taxes but not strong enough to challenge authority.

Think about how weak we will be in 40 years as the generations pass by on nothing but government meals and their chemtrails over our cities.


This is simply not true. I do not believe in chemtrails. Yet I DO acknowledge that my government is willing to poison, torture, imprison, or murder me for any number of bizarre reasons.

I just want evidence. That's all. Just some evidence. Stop trying to psycho-analyze people who disagree with you, it makes you look conceited and delusional to any objective observer.



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 04:27 PM
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Originally posted by tinhattribunal
reply to post by network dude
 

if the skeptics really want to put this, or any, 'topic to rest',
it would require a much more intelligent aproach than what is currently being displayed at ATS and several other conspiracy oriented message boards.

the tactics that are used here are straight out of the 'gentleperson's guide to forum spies handbook', and there is ever growing evidence for the use of sockpuppets and forum gangs. 'believers' of various topics will notice these tactics being used, and it will reiforce their beliefs that something nefarious is going on.

i have had the privilage of stumbling upon a number of message boards that are tightly moderated against such distruption, and while that may seem very 'one sided' to some, it has allowed them to investigate many issues without being led completely astray, which tends to be the most effective aspect of 'disruptive trolling'.

furthermore, some sites have realized the enourmous scope of the disinformation out there and have decided to take a step back and, objectively and thouroghly investigate conspiracy topics in each detail. their results may not, and are not, presented as established fact on their boards (like some conclusions that are 'reached' here), but are anywise well presented parts of a bigger picture that, in the long run, may enable them establish an 'absolute truth', something that is not easily obtainable.

again, if you would really like to 'prove us wrong', about chemtrails or any other topic on these boards i truely suggest upping your game in a most honest and intelligent fashion because, as i think you can see hear, we are becoming wiser to your agenda.


You have it exactly backwards. You are making a claim that they exist, without presenting any evidence - therefore, the Chemtrail-Believers must up their game if they want any serious researchers around here to take these claims seriously.



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 04:41 PM
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Originally posted by Ghost375
Yeah, but when you watch them for 2 hours when they do a heavy spray, and see how they turn into clouds that remain there for days, you know they are cloud seeding(see patents). you don't need a chemical analysis, just open your eyes and watch them.

I've been under the impression they are spraying to block out the sun rays because global warming/climate change is much worse than they are admitting to.


Errrrrr ... cloud seeding does not create clouds, sir. Cloud seeding is done in clouds that are already present.

And do you also believe that they can somehow create a cloud that remains for days over a single point? Is it powered by self-adjustment thrusters or something?



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 05:07 PM
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what i know is several summers ago we were watching with binoculars large silver aircraft resembling Boeing 707s flying crisscross patterns over and around Springfield for about an hour. each pass would start and end long streams of rich bright trails coming from under their wings, then would slowly fan out until the sky was totally blocking out the sun, it was bizarre enough that all the neighbors were coming outside to watch this even and wanted to discuss what we thought was going on.

hours later myself and others started having respiratory problems as if something else was mixed with the air and there was a strange residue all over everyone's cars like soap film that had dried. all i know was i was sick for a week but never fully recovered from it to this day. currently I'm being tested by the medical community over their many theories and blood works, but so far none can tell me whats wrong and at the time of the siting, non of us ever thought about keeping residue test samples, because non of us ever heard of chemtrails before so they really have nothing to go by to test other than my explanation.

All i know was i was just fine then after watching this airplane and the sky thing, Ive been ill ever since, its not a coincidence



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 05:31 PM
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Originally posted by Hopechest

Originally posted by LightWarrior11
Perhaps one thing both sides can agree on Is that the 'trails left in the sky do have an effect on the weather?

And what if they geo-engineered by creating specific contrail patterns intentionally?


 


Again, for what purpose? 

Are they trying to make the weather better or worse and why? 

 


Personally I can't tell if they're making the weather better or worse.
I guess a very small part of me might lean more towards worse, if I consider how many record storms have occurred in the last two years, And how winter is basically non existent here in my state. But then I have to ask myself, is that because of the airplanes (Chem or contrail)? Is it a natural cycle? Is it because of the ozone? I don't know. 

Have you seen those arguments where people say, "when I was a kid I didn't see the thick 'trail lines in the sky" or "back in the 80s & 90s The contrails did not linger in such a manner".

To that I would speculate that maybe atmospheric conditions have changed, just like they said it would. And those changes up there have allowed for 

a) the sun to appear painfully brighter and hotter, and 

b) make contrails more prevalent. 

Personally, I feel like I've noticed how the 'trails do affect weather patterns in my area.
(I'm typing from my phone so I have to make it short & to the point.)

My observation,

Day 1: clear, windless, 'trail-less,cloudless sky
Day 2: thick & numerous contrails from am to sunset
Day 3: clouds from day 2 fan out, and I can see fresh contrails again, from am to sunset 
Day 4: all the previous contrails have fanned out into ugly planemade clouds, covering most of the sky
Day 5: no visual on the sun, the contrail clouds remain and start to mix with the normal push of clouds received from the gulf. Those moisture clouds from the gulf move in & become stagnant, seeming trapped within the system of contrail clouds. 
Day 6: The area receives RAIN or temps drop dramatically.
Day 7: cloudless skies again and the weather is back in the upper 70s and 80s with no 'trails in sight.

Then the process repeats. 

And the only reason why I think "they" would want to trap those gulf clouds in a stagnant system, is simply because of the severe drought here in TX. 

Anyway, Thanks for reading this long winded post & Please remember that what ive shared are just thoughts and observations and not something I perceive as solid fact so I can't be bothered arguing too much about it. I realize i could be completely off in my perception, and thats ok for now, im not protecting an ego here..I'll check this thread again when I can.

And apparently, this topic is hard to discuss because as soon as people decide to get personal and insult one another it goes downhill from there..

It also seems that while people want to discuss Chemtrails and contrails, people aren't open minded about other theory's. Nobody wants to be wrong and that is a cause for constant clashing..

>shrug<



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 05:42 PM
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Cloud seeding exists but "chemtrails" are a farce? Maybe, that's why it can't be discussed, without turmoil? How come it's always the SAME PEOPLE, talking about the SAME TOPIC? At this point, why bother caring? It is, what it is, and there's nothing either side can do about it. It's waaaaaay late in the game, to stop anything the NWO has planned for us. That chance came on 9-11-01 and left on 01-20-09.



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 06:42 PM
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reply to post by profundus
 


You see, that's the thing about this whole contrail/chemtrail debate.

One minute it's cloud seeding, next minute it's crop spraying, then it's agent orange, one minute it's barium, next minute it's aluminum, or it's geo-engineering then it's population control, one minute it's high altitude military 'tankers' next minute it's commercial air traffic, one minute it's nano-particles next minute it's chaff, one minute it's Tesla playing his HAARP next it's Agent Langley tweaking your thoughts....blah blah blah.

Chemtrail believers are like frogs that hop from one lily-pad theory to the next. How many times has Agent Orange come up in these discussions for example? How many times do you have to explain the difference to a zealous 'awakened one' between a defoliant sprayed at low altitude and a contrail forming a cirrus cloud at 33,000 feet? (The only thing these two subjects have in common is that aircraft are involved). But to no avail.

The reason this subject cannot be discussed without turmoil is that this theory is located on a subjective coastline where fantasy and reality meet. Let the winds of paranoia fill the sails of your little rickshaws and off you go on the sea of delusion.


edit on 1-3-2013 by seabhac-rua because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by seabhac-rua
The reason this subject cannot be discussed without turmoil is that this theory is located on a subjective coastline where fantasy and reality meet. Let the winds of paranoia fill the sails of your little rickshaws and off you go on the sea of delusion.

edit on 1-3-2013 by seabhac-rua because: spelling check profundus you numpty


That was so beautifully written, I have a small tear in my eye. *niff*

honestly, you nailed it.



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 07:04 PM
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reply to post by SPECULUM
 


My mother-in-law has advanced Alzheimer's and I can tell you know that the cause is not known. The link to aluminum is still in study, but no definitive cause or effect has been found. It does run in families, so an outside source like exposure to aluminum doesn't really fit. Neither does life-style. My MIL is a Mormon, who didn't drink or smoke and her brother, who also had Alzheimer's, owned a bar, was an alcoholic for much of his life, and smoked like a chimney. The only link between the two (besides looks) was their DNA.
It is why the research continues and the meds for it are only a slight improvement of slowing the advance of the disease, not anything at all like a cure or even treatment.



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 07:13 PM
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reply to post by tinhattribunal
 


Ah, but then you yourself muddy the discussion with talks of disinfo agents and plants.
Can't you see that some might be as passionate about the nonsense of "chemtrails" as a believer is about their existence?
Could there not also be agents for the other side, pushing the "chemtrail" conspiracy agenda to further the paid "experts" income?
One is as likely as another. It's not until the calls of " shills, disinfo agents, plants, and trolls" stops that a real rational debate can had. And they have been hurtled at the skeptics (including myself just yesterday) over and over again. Just because we don't agree does not make our viewpoint any less valid than your own. It is an open forum, and trying to discredit others falsely is just not right.



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 07:18 PM
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reply to post by brandiwine14
 


Sorry, but cancer has been with mankind since we became mankind.
Some cancers are idiopathic, and have no known cause. My father was one of them.
While there are some cancers directly related to exposure to something specific, like asbestos and artificial butter flavoring, much of the time there is nothing but a cell going rogue.



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 07:39 PM
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reply to post by SPECULUM
 


Sorry, but by the beginning of your second paragraph, you lost me.
Nothing in a contrail/"chemtrail" over you at flight altitude will be able to effect you on the ground within hours. A particle that small will take over 24 hours to fall to ground level--in a still column of air, which does not exist. By applying the winds and updrafts, something like a "chemtrail" will be miles away from you before settling. For it to effect you directly, it would need to be the size of fairly large hail.
Perhaps you were mistaking a mosquito fogging? But this would be small planes flying at low altitudes.
Without pictures or perhaps news reports from that event, it really is just anecdotal and not evidence.



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 07:43 PM
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Thanks for the post network dude,

I've always acknowledge chem trails to be a possibility but may have taken an approach that not only made me look a little stupid but hugely paranoid.

A very refreshing step back from the issue to assess what we are seeing and saying are contrails and chem trails.
I'll approach the topic a little bit differently, thanks for the help



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 08:33 PM
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Good thread, Indeed a touchy subject.

I honestly don't like the whole HAARP, aluminum boron poison idea behind the motivation behind mythical chemtrails. Even the agribusiness motive seems nuts. But then there's my own observations which is all I can go off of, simply put:

I know I always get horribly nutty looks from my father everytime I mention the idea there might be chemtrails. I live in a city with a big international airport and major airplane manufacturers and plenty of military bases (I got used to seeing those military AWAC planes with radar discs on them coming out of Boeing), and last summer was quite nice and clear and during one day the usual north to south "contrail" patterns started up, but many seem to turn into this quickly sinking cottony cloud exhaust. I mean by this some of the aircraft would fly overhead and leave normal trails that would dissipate at the SAME altitude as the plane was flying but others would leave persistent trails that seemed to leave clumpy and quickly sinking trails. Within 2-4 minutes of flying over the trail would appear to lose 30-60% altitude. My father finally after dozens of discussions finally acknowledged it might be something at that moment. It was only a few weeks ago that I spotted on a clear evening on my way home 2 planes of fairly similar or identical size flying in the almost identical flight pattern but one was about 2k feet behind and to one side, the trailing craft left a persistent trail that sank rapidly in the 4-5 minutes of traffic I was able to observe it in, yet the leading craft that appeared the same size left a trail that went away instantly, they both looked like twin engine passenger jets which is normal in this city.

All I can tell you is my observations make me curious, still.

And Ill give you a flag for bringing up this topic again, it needs to be discussed because it still does not make sense to many.


edit on 1-3-2013 by Aliquandro because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 09:06 PM
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reply to post by Aliquandro
 


There may be some prosaic explanation for your observations, there may not be, I don't know.

I'm not sold on chemtrails for a few simple reasons. I'll give an easy one.

Lets just say, for example, aluminum is being sprayed, for the purpose of geo-engineering (this seems to be one of the prevailing theories in the chemtrail pantheon).

The amount of aluminum required for such an operation, yearly, is staggering. The number of dedicated 'spraying' flights in the US alone would be something in the region of 200 to 300 flights daily, and remember we're supposedly talking about a worldwide undertaking here.

Now, just regarding these two points above, there should be some evidence of this occurring. The amount of people involved in an operation with logistics of this scale would number in the hundreds of thousands. There is no possible way that this could be kept a secret, none. I shouldn't really have to elaborate to any intelligent people on here as to why this could not be kept a secret either.



edit on 1-3-2013 by seabhac-rua because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 10:21 PM
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Good topic network dude, and nice approach. S&F. I can be a pain sometimes when I get passionate, but the chemtrail debate just gets ugly. Too many arguments over pictures IMO.

Here's the thing. Aluminum exists in different forms. The form of aluminum effects the absorption of aluminum by your stomach and digestive tract, to get into your blood, accumulate in organs, or merely pass through. I won't get into the blood barrier absorption kinetics related to the Alzheimer's issue. A bit of a different issue anyway and subject of much research. And I won't address heavy toxic exposures in blood that can kill like breathing certain fumes. Not what were talking about here.

Aluminum exists in soil as an ore, bauxite. Basically a few different metallic hydrate forms. To make aluminum, you process the ore to refine it to aluminum oxide. It can then be electrolytically converted to aluminum. There is NO free metallic aluminum in the crust of the planet. If there is, man made it. So, soil testing that I've seen so far from geo-engineering sites are not convincing. That said, the amount of aluminum in the soil has no bearing on the situation anyway.

So if you have bauxite, metallic aluminum, or aluminum oxide in your soil, there is NO bioaccumulation into plants and into animals. Unless you had metallic aluminum in the soil and it rained lemon juice, there is no worry.

Source:

rais.ornl.gov...

So, now what if you eat aluminum? Just pick up a can and eat it (NOT RECOMMENDED - it will do a number on your gums). On the surface of the aluminum can there is a stable metal oxide protecting the aluminum. This is why it's corrosion resistant in many applications. If you cut the can in half, a stable metal oxide forms on the cut surface within hours. Unless you dissolve the metal oxide, you won't expose metallic aluminum, and are primarily consuming aluminum oxide pieces that you can't absorb.

The absorption rate of aluminum oxide or a hydrate into the stomach is less than 0.1% by volume. The absorption rate of metallic aluminum in the stomach is even less than that (approximately 0.001% based on the instrument used). This is all assuming basic saliva. If you eat the can with a mouth full of lemon juice creating citrated aluminum compounds, your stomach will absorb 8.6% of what you ate. Heck of a day on the toilet though.


Source:

www.efsa.europa.eu...

BOTTOM LINE IMHO is Spraying Aluminum to Kill People Is A Waste of Money because it Won't Work. It's also about $1.40 USD/pound the last time I checked. EDIT: $0.90 USD/pound currently. I got ripped off

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