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Why chemtrails cannot be discussed without turmoil.

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posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 09:32 AM
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Chemtrails will forever remain a turbulent topic due to a few factors in my opinion.
First and foremost, chemtrail believers will not acknowledge the facts behind contrails.
Sadly, this is the biggest bone of contention I can see. Contrails have been known about and studied since powered flight existed. Nowhere in the science community are persistent contrails disregarded. So the simple fact that contrails can and do persist just like clouds, makes it very hard to accept some of the chemtrail claims.



In the above picture, there are several white fluffy lines left by a plane. They look an awful lot like contrails.

Since it’s impossible for anyone to determine the chemical makeup of a cloud or contrail by sight alone, logic would say that these are contrails until proven otherwise. Calling them chemtrails with no proof is fundamentally unsound.

Lastly is Ego. It’s a problem every one of us has to deal with. They can very easily become inflated and cause the poster to make rude and un-necessary comments. That can be an issue with any topic, but it seems to come out more with chemtrails than any other topic. Both sides are convinced they are right and the other is dead wrong. Yet, that isn’t the case in reality.

Contrail people (the science side of the argument) do not discount that chemtrails could exist. They do not claim that nothing has ever been sprayed out of an aircraft. What they do claim is that nobody can look at the sky, or a picture, or a video and tell that the lines in the sky are anything other than contrails without taking a sample of the cloud and letting lab results determine the chemical makeup. You may want to believe real, real, bad, but in the end, it’s just an assumption if you want it to be something other than what it looks like. So anytime someone posts a picture of white lines in the sky and yells “PROOF!” they are most likely wrong about what they think they are seeing. History and science prove them wrong.




posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 09:41 AM
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Because no one wants to believe that the government would spray alloys and toxic chemicals on them from high altitude supertankers


But they are, and specifically to bring all humanity to its knees when they initiate HAARP to interact with the aluminum everyone's unknowingly ingested....that Tesla was one smart SOB



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 09:47 AM
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reply to post by SPECULUM
 


is that fact or speculation?

Speculation is great, but when discussing facts, like what makes lines form behind planes and what makes them stay there all day, speculation has no place. If we are discussing if Bigfoot is real or not, then speculation may well be a big part of the conversation.



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 09:47 AM
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Originally posted by SPECULUM
Because no one wants to believe that the government would spray alloys and toxic chemicals on them from high altitude supertankers


But they are, and specifically to bring all humanity to its knees when they initiate HAARP to interact with the aluminum everyone's unknowingly ingested....that Tesla was one smart SOB



Giving you the benefit of the doubt as to your theory, can you explain why they would want to do this?

Seems if they are that powerful that they can dictate a policy such as your describing, they already are in control so what do they have to gain?



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 09:54 AM
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reply to post by Hopechest
 


I would add, how long is the expected to take, since it has apparently been happening since the 1990's?



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 09:56 AM
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Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by SPECULUM
 


is that fact or speculation?

Speculation is great, but when discussing facts, like what makes lines form behind planes and what makes them stay there all day, speculation has no place. If we are discussing if Bigfoot is real or not, then speculation may well be a big part of the conversation.


well it sure seems that folks from all over the world have been recording high levels of aluminum and other materials in their soil and water samples and spent large sums of money to prove their point, so if that isn't proof then what the hell is??? Ive seen them spraying, the nozzle goes on then after they make their pass the nozzle goes off, etc

read my signature, hope that helps



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 09:57 AM
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Originally posted by SPECULUM
Because no one wants to believe that the government would spray alloys and toxic chemicals on them from high altitude supertankers


But they are, and specifically to bring all humanity to its knees when they initiate HAARP to interact with the aluminum everyone's unknowingly ingested....that Tesla was one smart SOB



Personally i look at it from the point of evidence, and lack thereof.

But that's just me. One thing I've learned from engaging in chemtrail debates is that people have wildly divergent standards regarding what they will except as 'hard evidence'. Yes, at one extreme, there are ATS members who will flatly deny and ignore any argument for the existence of chemtrails, whilst at the other end of the spectrum there are members who will espouse any half baked 'theory' thrown out there.



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 09:59 AM
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Originally posted by Hopechest

Originally posted by SPECULUM
Because no one wants to believe that the government would spray alloys and toxic chemicals on them from high altitude supertankers


But they are, and specifically to bring all humanity to its knees when they initiate HAARP to interact with the aluminum everyone's unknowingly ingested....that Tesla was one smart SOB



Giving you the benefit of the doubt as to your theory, can you explain why they would want to do this?

Seems if they are that powerful that they can dictate a policy such as your describing, they already are in control so what do they have to gain?


to ensure that everyone has the right dosage in the event they need to use it



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 10:01 AM
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Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Hopechest
 


I would add, how long is the expected to take, since it has apparently been happening since the 1990's?


I'm willing to believe in anything but first I need to establish a motive. If you can't then you have to question why there would be a conspiracy involving it in the first place.

Killing off your populace is not a way to ensure you stay in power, it would be much wiser to simply control them from the shadows.

You also have to look at risk v reward. How many people are aware of this and how high is the likelihood of exposure compared to whatever benefit your getting. I suppose the people that know about this would be in the thousands and none of them are going to talk?

And they all are being sprayed with the same thing?

It just doesn't sound believable on a number of levels.



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 10:03 AM
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Originally posted by SPECULUM

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by SPECULUM
 


is that fact or speculation?

Speculation is great, but when discussing facts, like what makes lines form behind planes and what makes them stay there all day, speculation has no place. If we are discussing if Bigfoot is real or not, then speculation may well be a big part of the conversation.


well it sure seems that folks from all over the world have been recording high levels of aluminum and other materials in their soil and water samples and spent large sums of money to prove their point, so if that isn't proof then what the hell is??? Ive seen them spraying, the nozzle goes on then after they make their pass the nozzle goes off, etc

read my signature, hope that helps


There are two problems when referring to soil and water samples in regards to the aluminum. First, there is no indication of where that aluminum has come from, so making the assumption that it has come from "chemtrails" is making an unjustified leap. Second, let us remember the fact that aluminum is the most abundant metal on the planet. This fact by itself would make the testing of soil for indications of what is being "sprayed" incredibly unreliable. These are facts, not assumptions or leaps of faith.



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 10:06 AM
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Originally posted by SPECULUM

well it sure seems that folks from all over the world have been recording high levels of aluminum and other materials in their soil and water samples



Aluminum is the most abundant metal in the earth's crust. It makes up about 7% of the mass (essentially the weight) of the earths crust.

link to source

Knowing that, isn't it kind of strange that anyone would be alarmed that the soil test contained aluminium? I would think that if there was none, it would be cause for alarm.

as far as your spray jets going on and off, the air up there is quite dynamic in that it changes very rapidly. Some spots are great for contrail formation, and right next to it, maybe not so much.



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 10:06 AM
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Originally posted by seabhac-rua

Originally posted by SPECULUM
Because no one wants to believe that the government would spray alloys and toxic chemicals on them from high altitude supertankers


But they are, and specifically to bring all humanity to its knees when they initiate HAARP to interact with the aluminum everyone's unknowingly ingested....that Tesla was one smart SOB



Personally i look at it from the point of evidence, and lack thereof.

But that's just me. One thing I've learned from engaging in chemtrail debates is that people have wildly divergent standards regarding what they will except as 'hard evidence'. Yes, at one extreme, there are ATS members who will flatly deny and ignore any argument for the existence of chemtrails, whilst at the other end of the spectrum there are members who will espouse any half baked 'theory' thrown out there.





aluminum is a major suspected cause of Alzheimer's, lets say you are ingesting aluminum, wouldn't you begin to start losing your minds or be more susceptible to frequency manipulation and subservience???



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 10:09 AM
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reply to post by Hopechest
 


You watch too much tv it appears..

Needing to establish a motive that fits your mind is the first mistake when trying to solve a problem.



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 10:09 AM
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reply to post by SPECULUM
 


To my knowledge, our understanding of Alzheimers is quite poor. My grandfather had it and dementia and died about 20 years ago. At that time, the cause was unknown and treatment was non-existent.



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by flyswatter

Originally posted by SPECULUM

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by SPECULUM
 


is that fact or speculation?

Speculation is great, but when discussing facts, like what makes lines form behind planes and what makes them stay there all day, speculation has no place. If we are discussing if Bigfoot is real or not, then speculation may well be a big part of the conversation.


well it sure seems that folks from all over the world have been recording high levels of aluminum and other materials in their soil and water samples and spent large sums of money to prove their point, so if that isn't proof then what the hell is??? Ive seen them spraying, the nozzle goes on then after they make their pass the nozzle goes off, etc

read my signature, hope that helps


There are two problems when referring to soil and water samples in regards to the aluminum. First, there is no indication of where that aluminum has come from, so making the assumption that it has come from "chemtrails" is making an unjustified leap. Second, let us remember the fact that aluminum is the most abundant metal on the planet. This fact by itself would make the testing of soil for indications of what is being "sprayed" incredibly unreliable. These are facts, not assumptions or leaps of faith.


Aluminum where none had been recorded EVER before???? seems mighty suspicious...how do you think it got there then? natural occurring aluminum rain like the 7 year locust?



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by ParasuvO
reply to post by Hopechest
 


You watch too much tv it appears..

Needing to establish a motive that fits your mind is the first mistake when trying to solve a problem.


If you or me, being conspiracy theorists, cannot think of a logical reason why someone would do something out of the ordinary, then it probably isn't happening.

Now I can see why a 9/11 would happen or a JFK assassination but I for the life of me cannot think what anyone has to gain by poisoning their people.



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 10:16 AM
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reply to post by SPECULUM
 


where are the facts behind your assertions? What studies? What tests? When were they done to show no aluminium and how often?

These are legitimate questions when discussing things like you brought up.



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 10:16 AM
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Originally posted by SPECULUM

Originally posted by flyswatter

Originally posted by SPECULUM

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by SPECULUM
 


is that fact or speculation?

Speculation is great, but when discussing facts, like what makes lines form behind planes and what makes them stay there all day, speculation has no place. If we are discussing if Bigfoot is real or not, then speculation may well be a big part of the conversation.


well it sure seems that folks from all over the world have been recording high levels of aluminum and other materials in their soil and water samples and spent large sums of money to prove their point, so if that isn't proof then what the hell is??? Ive seen them spraying, the nozzle goes on then after they make their pass the nozzle goes off, etc

read my signature, hope that helps


There are two problems when referring to soil and water samples in regards to the aluminum. First, there is no indication of where that aluminum has come from, so making the assumption that it has come from "chemtrails" is making an unjustified leap. Second, let us remember the fact that aluminum is the most abundant metal on the planet. This fact by itself would make the testing of soil for indications of what is being "sprayed" incredibly unreliable. These are facts, not assumptions or leaps of faith.


Aluminum where none had been recorded EVER before???? seems mighty suspicious...how do you think it got there then? natural occurring aluminum rain like the 7 year locust?


I cant rightfully make claims of where it came from, that would have me taking a leap that is far from logical. You see, the problem here is that you cant really determine how it got there, either. Neither can the people testing soil and water for these studies. Is it possible that it came from a "spraying" operation? Sure, I guess. It's also just as possible that it gets there by other means. It does not prove OR disprove anything for either side of the argument.

In many past threads, there have been discussions on what would constitute viable evidence. There are two things that have been brought up in these discussions - pictures of the spraying equipment and planes, and tests of the actual trails themselves.



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 10:17 AM
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Originally posted by Hopechest

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Hopechest
 


I would add, how long is the expected to take, since it has apparently been happening since the 1990's?


I'm willing to believe in anything but first I need to establish a motive. If you can't then you have to question why there would be a conspiracy involving it in the first place.

Killing off your populace is not a way to ensure you stay in power, it would be much wiser to simply control them from the shadows.

You also have to look at risk v reward. How many people are aware of this and how high is the likelihood of exposure compared to whatever benefit your getting. I suppose the people that know about this would be in the thousands and none of them are going to talk?

And they all are being sprayed with the same thing?

It just doesn't sound believable on a number of levels.


The human race is quite fickle , just ask Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Bush, ETC

when you just cant believe, you better



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 10:19 AM
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reply to post by network dude
 

Well said ND.


Contrail people (the science side of the argument) do not discount that chemtrails could exist.

More like the reasonable ones, such as yourself, don't discount chemtrails could exist. Unfortunately, not everyone is willing to be that objective on either side.





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