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A serious question about chemtrails

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posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 10:10 AM
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Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by SPECULUM
 


Oh, and when I was in the USAF, I worked the flight line. I could get a jar of JP-8 pretty much any time by just asking. You might want to try that before you say it won't work.


did you ever test any of the fuel??? maybe you should have then you would know for FACT




posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 10:43 AM
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Originally posted by fireyaguns
reply to post by Painfulhead
 


Chemtrail is an escape goat word for those who deny the truth and the shills that continually start strawman arguments over the chemtrail word.

Arial Geo Engineering is real and changes the whole discussion as we are not talking about chemtrails but Arial geo engineering.

I have seen also more often these last 10 years, children’s movies and cartoons full of Arial geo engineering back grounds, cars is a good example (I am not saying Arial geo engineering has'nt been going on for many many years, most likely over half a centry).
Hollywood has its minders also like all entities, they have been infiltrated by the synagogue of Satan.

edit on 1-3-2013 by fireyaguns because: was going to mention HAARP but might do later



HOLLYWOOD has the highest degree of influence used by the mainstream media for many different forms of subtle persuasion.



posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 11:37 AM
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reply to post by defcon5
 


sorry but this is wrong and shows that you eather didnt take the time to realy dig or are not very informed about games. as i mentioned in the first post the game MW3 had "contrails" mostly in the new map (downloaded after release). same game ,same programers and same game engine.

in the new Forza race title over japan you will see not just classic "contail" lines but also the thining and clouds that one see's hours after heavy traffic.

sky rendering has been important to gameing and has been getting better and better as years go by, to say that the game council did not have the power to render this until now is wrong, even the first XBox was powerful enough to render great looking skys and did, check the first Halo games skys (now over ten years old)

anyway its a fun debate and neather side can prove much, I have seen to many "Contrail" that dissapate in very strange ways, that in my oppinion looks wrong and then questions come up. I dont think any answers will come from this thread but i will keep looking,

here is a quote from the past that is very telling now a days

"Look all around theres nothing but blue sky, look straight ahead NOTHING BUT BLUE SKY"

play nice,,,,,Painfulhead

and last but not least. why now is every day right for "contrails" to linger regardless of the weather or conditions?



posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 11:45 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 12:06 PM
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reply to post by network dude
 


you missed the sarcasm, no one will talk about this seriously I knew that, thats why its there.
and its a thread about chems in video games how serious could i be. its kind of just odd.



posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by SPECULUM

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by SPECULUM
 


Oh, and when I was in the USAF, I worked the flight line. I could get a jar of JP-8 pretty much any time by just asking. You might want to try that before you say it won't work.


did you ever test any of the fuel??? maybe you should have then you would know for FACT


Um, it was tested every day, several times a day. If you didn't mean it's only military planes, then yes, you can go the the airport and purchase as much JP-8 as you would like. (hint- it's how private planes make their engines go vroom)

Please let us know what the results are when you have it tested.



posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by Painfulhead
reply to post by network dude
 


you missed the sarcasm, no one will talk about this seriously I knew that, thats why its there.
and its a thread about chems in video games how serious could i be. its kind of just odd.


Based on some of the chemtrail theories out there, this is a very sane approach to the discussion. (IMHO)
Find the one about the alien holograms making trails.



posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by profundus
 




But since you "get how it works" maybe you could calculate the amount of power necessary to do what is described in that nonsensical word soup article. Seems like that's a lot of air to warm up.




It's not only the air you have to heat up but also the water vapor it carries, And the energy needed can be calculated, although it takes knowledge (and acceptance) of some scientific facts. And some math skills, which are usually taught right along with grammar in school. Sandy had a diameter of 1500 km, if you use the area of 60 knot winds. And the average height of the storm was about 9 km. So you have a volume of air of 560,350 cubic kilometers. The specific heat of dry air (we can use since we'll figure the moisture later) is almost exactly 1kJ/kgC. The typical tropical cyclone has an average temp of 30C, a rise of 10C from normal ambient. The weight (sorry, mass) of air at 1 bar pressure is 1.2 kg/ per cubic meter so you have to warm up 4.2 X 10^9 kilograms of air. That would take 4,200,000,000 kilojoules per degree, or 42,000,000,000 kJ total.
Saturated air at 1 bar and 30C carries 2kg/100 cubic meters of water vapor. If you do the math, that means there is a mass of roughly 10 million kilograms of water vapor to heat With a specific heat of water vapor of just about 2 kJ/kgC (1.864 to be exact) you need another 200 million kJ for the water.
Now where could one find 42.2 billion kilojoules to do the work? That is a billion BTU. For comparison, that'swhat you get from 2 and a half billion tons of TNT. That's two hundred thousand Hiroshima bombs. You can't get it from a 3.6 megawatt HF transmitter 4000 mile away, even if it could be aimed at the surface. You can get it from the sun incessantly irradiating the oceans with 1000 Watts/ square meter during daylight. 1 gallon of seawater can easily warm 4 cubic meters of air the necessary 10C.



posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by Painfulhead
 


As a homemaker, I know that "chemtrails" are so far over your head that you cannot tell the conditions are right until you see a cirrus cloud or contrail. When you see cirrus clouds, you will most likely see contrails. When cirrus clouds persist, so will contrails. When the upper atmosphere is clear, you will not see cirrus clouds and will most likely not see contrails. When cirrus clouds drift into a drier portion of the atmosphere and start to sublime, so will contrail.
Unless you want to look up the meteorological soundings. But then, if they haven't been released into the same area, that might not help.
I have observed all of the above scenarios. I have looked at the soundings for my area, taken during the time of my sky watching. I have identified the planes I was seeing, almost real-time.
Have you?



posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 03:13 PM
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reply to post by F4guy
 


It's not only the air you have to heat up but also the water vapor it carries, And the energy needed can be calculated, although it takes knowledge (and acceptance) of some scientific facts.

Yeah, I know.
But that stupid word soup article said all you need to do is heat the air and I sort of figured I wouldn't get any response to even that part of it either.

Nice job though. Can you convert to nuclear generators?



posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 03:22 PM
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reply to post by Painfulhead
 

I would say, instead of trying to argue on a conspiracy forum why developers would add something so ridiculously unimportant to a video game, why not just email them and ask them directly?

They will respond. I've emailed the CoD devs before.



Originally posted by Painfulhead
its a thread about chems in video games

I think you meant "cons" as in contrails in video games. Considering there's no such word as "chemtrails", nor is there any evidence either circumstantial or scientific to suggest such a word could exist. It also says alot about a person's intellect and credibility when they deliberately replace the proper word "contrails" with a word that not only doesn't exist, but has no real meaning behind it.



posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by NONPOINT21

I know a way that could possibly sway some votes, does anyone have pictures of their cities skies on 9/11 when aviation was shut down. Now if there were contrails after lets say 11am or later then we now know that they weren't considered commercial aircraft and were doing the job they are tasked to do. Now if someone produced pictures on contrails on 9/11 at say 1pm what would you say to that?? I'm sure you can come up with a good excuse.


Oh, but there were contrails that day. Because there were a few planes, fighters were flying extensively, making sure that the commercial planes were following orders and that there were no more terrorists in the sky.
Why would you question that? Isn't that what you would expect given the situation?
And the next day, when there was no commercial flights at all, there were a group of fighters that flew. They made contrails, which lasted for hours and spread for hundreds of miles. The study is quite fascinating. Here's a link:

Contrail Studies during the 2001 Aircraft Shutdown
It's a .pdf. The exact measures of both persistence and spread are on page 4 of the study, first complete paragraph.
And there are more studies. If you Bing (sorry but I have Win8 and it is standard), there are 340,000 hits. Of course there are duplications in this, but even if only 1% were unique, that is still a lot of studies.



posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 03:37 PM
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Originally posted by profundus

Science involves lots of TESTING; and testing requires real life scenarios and guinea pigs.


Science does the testing all the time. Each city has a water and air quality unit that tests many times every single day. So do counties, states, schools, universities, commercial airlines, and people who have a commercial interest in air and water quality.
So in your world, all these people...which would account for thousands of different individuals at thousands of different places.....all get together and skew their testing to cover-up the_________(insert favorite "chemtrail" agent here) reading is out of norm and a cause for concern?

Explain the logistics of that.



posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 04:06 PM
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Originally posted by SPECULUM

Originally posted by defcon5
reply to post by SPECULUM
 
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

The contents of JP is very tightly controlled, tested, and filtered. No aviation operator is going to allow anyone to be running that sort of crap through their expensive, highly maintained, jet engines.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.


Thats BULL SHSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSST and you know it, just the anticoagulants and antifreezes alone are deadly toxic


Sorry, but in order to make this claim you need to research something called "Dilution rate".
The amount of additive is quite small:

Aviation fuel additives are compounds added to the fuel in very small quantities, usually measurable only in parts per million, to provide special or improved qualities. The quantity to be added and approval for its use in various grades of fuel is strictly controlled by the appropriate specifications


Source



posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 04:40 PM
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Nice job though. Can you convert to nuclear generators?


Sure. A kilogram of pure U-235 can give you 7.2 x 10^13 joules. The Hiroshima bomb was 56 kilograms, but only of 80% enriched U-235 You can also do a conversion based on wattage output. The typical nuclear plant puts out about a gigawatt. That's a million joules/second. That produces about 6,500,000 kg of steam per hour to drive the turbine generators. BTW, Sandy generated 140 terajoules of energy. [For those who slept through Intro Physics in college, a joule is the energy or work expended to pass an electric current of one ampere through a resistance of one ohm for one second or in applying a force of 1 newton for a distance of 1 meter.]



posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 04:56 PM
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reply to post by _BoneZ_
 


I think you're being silly and kind of ignorant to the words, it is unarguable that engine exhaust contains carbon dioxide, smoke, and small amounts of unburnt hydrocarbons, oxides of nitrogen, carbon monoxide and small amounts of other things. (from contrail Science web site) So using just straight definitions there are chemicals in most, if not all types of exhaust (i.e. cars, boats, jets combustion engines in general), semantically speaking the term works. as per

"the jet left a long chemical trail of exhaust". one could shorten the word chemical to 'chem' kind of like condensation trail or contrail.

thanks for your help ..... Painfulhead



posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 05:08 PM
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reply to post by Painfulhead
 


the jet left a long chemical trail of exhaust". one could shorten the word chemical to 'chem' kind of like condensation trail or contrail.
Yes. But that is not what people are talking about when they talk about "chemtrails", is it? By that definition cars and buses leave "chemtrails" and so do cows. By that definition a "chemtrail" isn't even necessarily visible.

It's interesting how there are attempts to "adjust" the definition of "chemtrails" once one discovers that there really is no evidence that they are anything other than persistent contrails.
edit on 3/2/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 05:09 PM
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Originally posted by Painfulhead
"the jet left a long chemical trail of exhaust".

But that is blatant misinformation. The trail you see in the sky left by planes is from condensation from moisture coming out of the exhaust. Hence the word CONtrail - condensation trail. "The jet left a long condensation trail of exhaust" is how the quote should read.

Chemicals or not, the actual trail that you physically see in the sky coming from jet exhaust is from moisture exiting the exhaust. This fact is not up for debate, nor is the word "contrail" or "condensation trail" up for re-naming.



posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 05:25 PM
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reply to post by stars15k
 


thank you for your point, yet it kind of side steps the question your answering. i think you are answering this
"why are conditions right everyday for contrail to linger?" (if I'm wrong stop reading now)

in your answer you state that if there are no clouds in the sky its less likely to see con trails lingering for a long time.
quote
"When the upper atmosphere is clear, you will not see cirrus clouds and will most likely not see contrails."

this is not what my eyes see. I see them on the clearest of days and when the clouds clear there they are and so on. I do live close to the H.A.A.R.P site so maybe its that. (kidding with a small amout of gulp) well anyway good for you and thanks again.

I get how people want to say I dont know anything, I'm dumb, you know all the rederick that comes with this topic and is aimed at the members that are not sure or on the fence or the believers. I get that, but I am still questioning this because my mind is broken.

i hope for a time where i can be off the fence and as confident as you in my belief on this topic, that would be swell, (not a jab at you) till then I will feel the sting of the fence post right in my a--. and brain Painfulhead



posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 05:31 PM
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reply to post by _BoneZ_
 


you have added the word "see" and this has changed my post.
my post to you was an illastration of words and there uses and how silly it is to pick that as your reply. but good one for you. it a technicality. yet thanks sir........ Painfulhead



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