A serious question about chemtrails

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posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 12:48 PM
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reply to post by profundus
 


I think you are again confused. We aren't worried about what's in a contrail. Why in the world would we spend any $ to find out we were correct. I would think a firm believer in Chemtrails would want to know, otherwise they would have to spend eternity arguing that they have an unnatural fear of clouds. Boo!




posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 12:50 PM
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reply to post by F4guy
 


While your offer is very kind and it would certainly solve this issue once and for all, I predict that you will not get any takers.

They don't want proof, they want validation.



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by profundus

Originally posted by F4guy
reply to post by Phage
 
You are correct. Blocking the sun would probably make a drought worse since precipitation usually, but not always, results from convective activity, which occurs when the surface is irradiated by the sun and warms. Moisture laden warm air near the surface is warmed, and since warm air is less dense, it rises and adiabatic cooling causes it to reach the dew point, the water vapor condenses and falls to earth as rain. The air at 35,000 feet is so cold it can carry very little moisture. The water vapor that causes contrails is carried aloft as jet fuel (dudocane) and results from the combustion of this hydrocarbon in an oxygen environment. The chemical reaction is:C26H12+O2+N2->CO2+H20+NOx. Sulfur impurities in jet fuel also result in emissions of various sulfur oxides which can combine with H2 to make H2SO4, or sulfuric acid - acid rain.
One other chemical fact to consider is that aluminum is a very bright silver. Contrails are a bright white.
And I have an offer which should be irresistable for any true believer in chemtrails. My company has a Learjet 25D which is certified to 51,000 feet. For $3,000 we can use it to go up and actually capture a piece of trail. (Yes I said "trail.") My lab (I am a forensic scientist) can then do a qualitative analysis and see what is actually there. I have the use of a quality GC/MS machine which can without any doubt resolve the question. Just send me a private message if you are a Chemmie who is willing to put his money where his (or her) speculation is.
Since you "got it like that", why don't you do it yourself; and post it on ATS. Make sure you videotape it, and post it on youtube. Maybe "myth busters" could team up with you.
Who is the burden of proof on? The chemtrailers or the contrailers? Who's the one up in the skies, flying around, blocking the sun and changing the weather patterns; the chemtrailers or the contrailers???

Tell your company to hook you and your boys, at the lab, up, with the learjet 25D
because you want to "go up and capture a piece of trail"
, then, "your lab" with your "forensic" expertise
can do a "qualitative analysis", so you can see
What is actually there?


That is the FUNNIEST thing i have EVER heard. I'm actually laughing in tears.

Do it in your Tattoo voice: "Boss, de playne; de playne".


ATS is soooooo much better than TV.


You've been given an opportunity to get what is considered to be the best kind of proof that there can be for the argument of chemtrails. Even if you are not capable of putting out the money that it would require ... if you cant take an offer seriously, you've come to the point of losing whatever credibility you had in this argument. You are now irrelevant, sir. Good day.

So, to the others that do believe in chemtrails ... get some backers and take the opportunity to get the proof that the rest of us so often look for. You have the chance to shove it all back in our face.
edit on 1-3-2013 by flyswatter because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 12:56 PM
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reply to post by profundus
 





The whole .gov thing...irks me! It let's me know, you BELIEVE THEM. Yeah, those numbers are kinda like the unemployment rate. Anymore "proof" or "facts"? Please, HUMOR ME!



You know, you're a little like an argumentative child really aren't you?

When evidence( photographic) has been presented to you, you don't believe it, you think it's been photoshopped, you demand proof that the photo is real.....when links to other sites are given to you, you don't believe .gov sites because they lie to you


It's all well and good being sceptical.....but there's no need to make yourself look like a clown with it




posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 12:59 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 01:03 PM
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Phage, If they did this and you don't think they'd also try it via planes, maybe you should have a good think about things :


In the mid-1950s, and again a decade later, the Army used motorized blowers atop a low-income housing high-rise, at schools and from the backs of station wagons to send a potentially dangerous compound into the already-hazy air in predominantly black areas of St. Louis.


Secret Cold War tests in St. Louis raise concerns

The issue isn't whether or not normal trails can stay around in the sky for ages too, it's whether or not some of them have substances in them from secret testing.

Who gives a crap about how long normal trails stay in the sky? That's just deflecting from the real issue.

Very convenient, as usual.

We need to research into government testing programs and also look at research into testing what chemicals are found in the air that shouldn't normally be there. This has been done but I've not researched this area much yet. Some people have tested and found things though haven't they? So let's look for that info and switch the debate from "Normal planes have trails too hurrr." to something better.

Don't react negatively to the accusations of being a conspiracy nut and deluded and keep researching, the truth will come out. Lisa Martino-Taylor's research papers are online somewhere and I found them before, but they're now conveniently buried from some searches and hardly anyone reporting on what she found, links to her actual research. I found it before though and will hopefully find it again.

People telling you you're deluded and a conspiracy freak for researching into this have issues. Governments have tested on people for decades in secret programs so there's very good reasons to put serious research into this if you're wanting to help make this debate a better one, one that's more grounded in reality instead of ridicule because people can't crawl out of their little fake-reality bubbles because it hurts their heads and delusions about how they think their lives will be nice and cosy.

They want you to look stupid so that most people think you ARE stupid. Since when should we trust governments? They poison our foods and drinks and have done for around a century, why not the air? They're wanting to add aspartame into milk now and not add it to labels but they wouldn't touch the air! Well yeah, they probably would, so think about the idea that you're maybe deluded in thinking that the air wouldn't be touched, when almost everything else is.

Yes, chemtrails have a good chance of being real, and yes, you do have to deal with it if you're attacking people researching this issue. And yes, in the future the truth will probably come out that many tests were tried with substances being sprayed from planes. Deal with it, then let's find out what substances and add it to the list of things governments have done to us, and why governments need massive reforms before we can live on this planet together without having to put up with corrupt wars, conditioning, and poisoning.
edit on 1-3-2013 by robhines because: added



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 01:13 PM
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reply to post by robhines
 


it's entirely possible.

It has been done in the past.

Now, what is being sprayed? How often is it being sprayed? Why is it being sprayed?

Are you getting the big picture yet? Without answers to those questions, why is there even a discussion? Sure it's possible....Next.....

edit to add:
The big problem is (for the 100th time) the fact that chemtrail believers keep posting pictures of contrails and calling them chemtrails. THEY DON"T KNOW THAT! That is all that is being said. That is the entire issue with the contrail people.
edit on 1-3-2013 by network dude because: added information



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by robhines
 


it's entirely possible.

It has been done in the past.

Now, what is being sprayed? How often is it being sprayed? Why is it being sprayed?

Are you getting the big picture yet? Without answers to those questions, why is there even a discussion? Sure it's possible....Next.....

edit to add:
The big problem is (for the 100th time) the fact that chemtrail believers keep posting pictures of contrails and calling them chemtrails. THEY DON"T KNOW THAT! That is all that is being said. That is the entire issue with the contrail people.
edit on 1-3-2013 by network dude because: added information


Yep, that's a big issue, agreed. We need proper research putting into this if we want to stop going around in circles, not just pictures of the sky.

Here's Lisa Martino-Taylor's research. Note : it's an 838 page dissertation, so it takes a while to load :



Abstract :

This piece analyzes a covert Manhattan Project spin-off organization referred to here as the Manhattan-Rochester Coalition, and an obscure aerosol study in St. Louis, Missouri, conducted under contract by the U.S. military from 1953–1954, and 1963–1965. The military-sponsored studies targeted a segregated, high-density urban area, where low-income persons of color predominantly resided. Examination of the Manhattan-Rochester Coalition and the St. Louis aerosol studies, reveal their connections to each other, and to a much larger military project that secretly tested humans, both alive and deceased, in an effort to understand the effects of weaponized radiation.


The Manhattan-Rochester Coalition, research on the health effects of radioactive materials, and tests on vulnerable populations without consent in St. Louis, 1945--1970
edit on 1-3-2013 by robhines because: added



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 01:32 PM
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Too all the years reading there is still one missed subject that is tapping the topic in this thread...

Chemtrails; to me in a basic knowlage - 1. We see it - we know its there . 2. Much documented projects with military and government around the world sense the 40's of weather modification, Nokia Tesla . 3. A Set Frequency.

Now basic laws of radiation and radio waves... it moves in a frequency - as a wave...

I know a lot about HAARP- and the many projects before HAARP that's lead's too this "Star wars" weapon...

Basic knowledge... if "power" as a example - wanted to control weather.. then they also control mood, as a mass- and geographical locations... They totally could if they pleased. Flood an area? sure... Massive winter storm? You got it.

In all - too my understanding - and sense and understanding in the 1800's - You spray ionized metal flake - Pulsate a set frequency.. Whom know's then what you could "Shift" around....
I



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 01:45 PM
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Originally posted by Painfulhead
......................................A serious question about chemtrails...........................

If the sky looks the same now as it did ten years ago then why are game programmers only now adding them to the sky?


Ask computer game programmers. Why would anyone else know? The obvious assumption though is that they're just trying to make games look more and more realistic.



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 01:57 PM
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reply to post by robhines
 

I don't really understand the relevance. We know that there have been various tests done in the past without public consent or notification. There are other examples of it having been done. We also know that, as a result, legislation has been put in place to prevent such tests.

Is this the document that Martino-Taylor said she was unable to obtain from the government?
www.dtic.mil...
edit on 3/1/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 02:08 PM
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reply to post by Y3K89
 


I wasn't aware that HAARP was proven to be a weapon. It just seems odd that they would offer to let the public in if it were as you say.


We recognize that there is great interest in the scientific work of the facility. In response to this interest, HAARP schedules open houses at which any and all are invited to visit the site. Several scientists are usually present at these open houses so that visitors can talk directly with those who use the facility for research. Open houses have been held most years since 1995 and have proven to be a popular event. The most recent open house was held on July 17, 2010.

link to source



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by robhines
 

I don't really understand the relevance. We know that there have been various tests done in the past without public consent or notification. We also know that, as a result, legislation has been put in place to prevent such tests.

Is this the document that Martino-Taylor said she was unable to obtain from the government?
www.dtic.mil...

edit on 3/1/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)
Legislation has been put in place to prevent such tests? No...even better, let me put it like this:

Legislation has been put in place to prevent such tests?
Legislation...to prevent such tests? Do we even need to go there? I'm beginning to believe, you don't UNDERSTAND how things work, in THEIR WORLD. They WROTE that legislation. I'll leave it at that; and let you ponder it!



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by F4guy
 


Cue the crickets. Chirp,,,,,,,,,,Chirp.



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by profundus
 




I'll leave it at that; and let you ponder it!

And I'll leave you to your closed little world in which only the things you believe hold any relevance. That world inside your closed mind which rejects information that doesn't fit.
edit on 3/1/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by profundus
 




I'll leave it at that; and let you ponder it!

And I'll leave you to your closed little world in which only the things you believe hold any relevance. That world inside your closed mind which rejects information that doesn't fit.
edit on 3/1/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)
Closed mind? I'm being VERY OPEN. Open to the fact that things are not as they appear. If anyone is closed minded, it would be you; for believing the "evil-doers" of this world, have our "best interest" at hand. History has not shown that to be the case, what-so-ever. I'm OPEN-MINDED enough to know, that science has come a long way. Unfortunately, like everything else that's benefits mankind, real science never seems to be for our benefit.

You keep saying: this is how clouds are formed when planes fly at certain altitudes; there is nothing in those trails; they're nothing but blah, blah, blah. Yeah, ok. I GET THAT! HOWEVER.....It's the "however" part that bothers you. You REFUSE to BELIEVE that "science" can be used against us! Remember the atom bomb??? What PURPOSE did that serve?

Now, who's being CLOSED MINDED???



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 02:38 PM
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reply to post by profundus
 


You REFUSE to BELIEVE that "science" can be used against us!
Really? I don't recall ever saying anything like that. Did you read my mind or something? If so you did a bad job of it.


Remember the atom bomb??? What PURPOSE did that serve?
It brought a war to and end. That's what it's purpose was.
 


Closed mind?
Yup.

I've taught my brain how to close off things that just DON'T MAKE SENSE.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

We know that things like meteorology don't make sense to you. We know that you don't try to understand them.
edit on 3/1/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by profundus
 


You REFUSE to BELIEVE that "science" can be used against us!
Really? I don't recall ever saying anything like that. Did you read my mind or something? If so you did a bad job of it.


Remember the atom bomb??? What PURPOSE did that serve?
It bought a war to and end.

edit on 3/1/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)
Well, yeah, you did....every time you deny the fact that geoengineering is a reality being played in REAL LIFE and not via a computer modulation.

And, the same people that "stopped" the war, are the people that "started" the war.

Honestly Phage, you'd make a terrible scientists. You're too stuck in you're own little box, to even think controlling the weather was a possibility. Meanwhile, scientists were thinking about changing the weather and ways to do it, DECADES ago. Heck, It only took a couple of decades to go from big portable phones to slim i-pods; from punch buttons to touch screen. Your thinking, still has us using payphones...and mail carriers on horseback.



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by profundus
 


You REFUSE to BELIEVE that "science" can be used against us!
Really? I don't recall ever saying anything like that. Did you read my mind or something? If so you did a bad job of it.


Remember the atom bomb??? What PURPOSE did that serve?
It brought a war to and end. That's what it's purpose was.
 


Closed mind?
Yup.

I've taught my brain how to close off things that just DON'T MAKE SENSE.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

We know that things like meteorology don't make sense to you. We know that you don't try to understand them.
edit on 3/1/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)
Do me a favor, if you're gonna have a debate with me...stop EDITING your comments. Make your comment, and make sure you know what you want to say, before you click "reply". I've noticed you have a bad habit of doing that. Make your point, and make it clear the 1st time around. Say what you mean, and mean what you say! Don't be changing your script after you click "reply".



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by profundus
Do me a favor, if you're gonna have a debate with me...stop EDITING your comments. Make your comment, and make sure you know what you want to say, before you click "reply". I've noticed you have a bad habit of doing that. Make your point, and make it clear the 1st time around. Say what you mean, and mean what you say! Don't be changing your script after you click "reply".


It's not his fault. "THEY" made him do it.

They have control of his mind. IT"S A GIANT CONSPIRACY!!!!!!





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