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What an Estonian Brigadier General told me today

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posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 07:41 PM
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Hello everyone, especially my fellow Americans,

to briefly introduce myself and inform you of the situation, I am a college student, in my sophemore year. I am going to school for cyber security with my fingers crossed to work for the NSA one day. I'm sure some of you nuts would insist that my being on ATS hurts my odds at landing a job there, or that I am actually a government spy trying to mind control blah blah blah you, and I assure you that is not the case. I don't go for many of the conspiracies here, I don't think the world is as bad a place as many of you make it out to be, but I do thirst for knowledge. That is why I am here and that is why I am going into the career I am going into.

Back on topic, as part of my education I have the opportunity to go to an Estonian college and get my masters degree in cyber security / computer science. Today, an Estonian Brigadier General came and spoke to the lot of us students interested in the study abroad program, to give us more knowledge on Estonia and its history. He spoke less about the study abroad program and more about why Estonia is where it is today in terms of technology and cyber warfare.

I'll answer any questions you have about his hour long presentation if you post your questions in a reply, but I want to bring to attention one specific thing the General said, looking me right in the eyes and speaking in that heavy eastern European (think russian) accent. And I quote:


"Freedom, you American's need to cherish your freedom. You do not know how bad it is until you lose it. We cherish your western values, sometimes more than your own people do. Protect your freedom at all costs."


Some of you may brush that comment off, but if anyone has any right to talk about freedom it is the people of Estonia. They only very recently became a country after being a part of the U.S.S.R. Before that they were free for a few years after WWI. The General told us that before that they had been ruled by several other nations and that they were "some of the last pagens to be clensed" and they had been ruled by Germany for 800 years.

I don't know much history on eastern Europe, but if you want to fact check him feel free to. To me it doesn't really matter. To me all that matters is that he is right, our country is a great country. We are a lot better off than so so much of the world, yet constantly you people talk about apocalypse and doom and gloom, world war three and civil war. I understand this is a conspiracy site, don't take me the wrong way. Even if I don't believe much of what is said on here, it is very entertaining.

What I am getting at is that America is a great place to live in the world. Be grateful. Appreciate the people around you. You could be in a much harder place right now, but you are in America.

(Sorry if I posted this on the wrong forum, if it is then please move it.)




posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 07:54 PM
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I understand what you`re saying but america won`t always be this way if people continue to be content with just being better than the worst countries.

you can`t be the best by being content with not being the worst.



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 07:55 PM
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If we can keep the masterpiece called The Constitution of the United States in tact. We can stay free. S&F



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 07:57 PM
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here...here...yes....that'll straiten' ya out....this freedom we hear of.....
free to drive the states' highways.....hunt fish ....claim land in the forest or BLM land....cool



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 08:05 PM
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reply to post by Cyn50
 


Ya being an outsider of your nation he sees a perspective the two of you cannot quite view the same (example: see a squabble between gov vs. citizens-gf vs.bf comparative) being the third party you can see BS about it from the wrong side. I see it all the time as well, being up north from you, how your nation is changing and the rights being infringed upon and the rapidly advancing police brutaltities/TSA. The protests, the markets changing, the low dollar/all time high oil prices and the lies your politicians feed you like! I know you used to be able to take a # down there without the gov. using it's spy technologies to infringe upon you and that is my biggest concern with what is taken away from you because they think your all a bunch of terrorists! I don't get it, the people used to have alot more power like all the movements about 50 years or so ago now. What happened to quote the Joker "did you balls fall off" those hippies so to speak, didnt even have the internet to connect one another and look at the difference they made it has gone down as a historical era for movements for many things.

the peoples are Slavics btw...



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 08:17 PM
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reply to post by Cyn50
 


If you are comparing america to the rest of the world and saying it is great by comparison, isn't that setting the bar a little bit low?

If freedom ebbs and flows like the tides, the tide is currently on its way out. There is really no denying that unless one wishes to simply live in ignorance to the facts. Sure I appreciate that the USA isn't Estonia or elsewhere but that doesn't make me want to ease up on wanting more freedom for myself even slightly.

If anything this Estonian Brigadier General's words stoke the fire currently lit under my rear end, I certainly don't feel like his words should make anyone feel like they should sit back and think how good they have it here, only how bad it may become if we continue to be complacent.


edit on 28-2-2013 by sageofmonticello because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 08:20 PM
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reply to post by Cyn50
 


How ironic. I literally just had a conversation with my friends.

For no apparent reason or contextually related pre-cursor, I said to them that they should cherish what they have, and that they have it good.

Next thing I did, I came here and read this post, only to find that the General not only said the same thing for the most part, he even used the same word "Cherish," a word I haven't heard, spoken, or read in quite some time to my recollection.

He's right, we need to keep a vigilante eye out. If America falls too far into the path of police state, it may well affect the whole world, and not in a good way mind you.

S & F op
edit on 28-2-2013 by 1Providence1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 08:32 PM
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It sould be of grave consern here that in the resent gun bedate the constitutional reasons for there being a 2nd amendment are not allowed into the mix by those like our oun VP. One must then wonder what else this ruling class dismisses as original intent on any issue that lands on or near the heading of constitutional rights.



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 08:33 PM
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"Freedom?"

There is no "country" that is free, and no people that are free. While we have less restriction in some areas, in others there are none. Freedom is no something "given" by a government via a piece of paper, freedom is not something a government bargains with, or alters and freedom is most certainly NOT a privilege.

One thing that people fail to see clearly, is that in the US, your freedom can be removed via debt. If you are accused of a crime, your "freedom" requires you to prove, via a very expensive lawyer, that you are not guilty, or, you may, at the behest of said freedom giving government, offer money and slave labor in exchange for your freedom.

Fiat currency enslaves us all - period. For now, because the US is the policy enforcement agent for the IMF, and the US Dollar is in good standing as a result, the folks in the US enjoy less restriction then were the dollar to collapse. In the end, no on is really free, despite Mr. Estonia's observations. In the US, you are required to get permission, permits, for everything you do, the freedom part comes because so many predetermined options have been established by the State. Currently, your "freedom" can be terminated instantly by a policeman with a gun, without penalty to said shooter as long as he feels uncomfortable with you for any reason, Curious freedom as the same cannot be said for you, as for you to terminate anyone's freedom will result in the State terminating you.

Ask yourself this, when did the "freedom" offered up to supposed non-slaves via the US Constitution become "civil freedom?" Why were the oppressed asking for "civil rights" instead of "constitutional rights?" Why does the Constitution only apply to businesses and not people, and not slaves, of which the US population ll are?

Freedom is a meaningless term, thrown around by people who think the freedom to choose from two pre-chosen political parties is true free-dom. Freedom, being free, means being free which no one on the planet truly understands, and, sadly this lack of understanding is what is keeping everyone stuck her, imprisoned by their own ignorance.



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 10:38 PM
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We don't teach our children to be good people anymore. We don't teach them to work together or to share or to help one another.

All they see are commercials. Tv shows are just vehicles to sell something and the commercials just tell them where to get the somethings.

They see our leaders lie, steal and cheat and get what they want. They watch them make decisions that benefit a priveleged few at the expense of everyone else.

They learn that profit is the only acceptable motive, that it is good business to do ANYTHING as long as it makes money and EVERYTHING is for sale, our air, our water and our lives.

They have grown up believing they are free when their every thought, wants words and moves are recorded and analyzed and sold for a profit to someone who will use it to sell them something else or deny them something they want or need.



They don't remember what it was like to go to the airport and not have to let some stranger touch them or go through a machine that my dentist wouldn't use on me without an apron on my lap.

They have never been free and they don't know what they are missing. They thought they were. They think they are still.



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 10:53 PM
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reply to post by ReluctantBlossom
 


Our country, the USA, is nearing a breaking point soon. Those that want a communist way of life and those that want the constitution. Unfortunately, I think it's about 50/50, and most people don't have a clue.



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 11:32 PM
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Haha,that reminds me of 2nd year in secondary school during an English class.I'm not sure what grade/year that equates to in the US but we were around 12 at the time.Anyway,it's always stuck in my mind our English teacher perhaps trying to inject a sense of value into his work told us that kids our age in Russia worked their arses off because an education was a real privilege which they absolutely never took for granted,

The inference being this class of bored,fed up and mildy resentful waste of spaces didn't know just how lucky they were to be getting an education free yet we sat there wishing to be anywhere else but in 'Mr Spoon's' dry old english class.lol

Whether Soviet kids at the time valued their education higher than a bunch of early 80's Scot's kids who can say but I would imagine they did because we didn't put that great a worth on it but the point stands that those who receive or enjoy benefits and rights many other nations would consider a luxury often don't appreciate what they have.Not,I think because they are worthless and ungateful but because these benefits have become rather ordinary to us and we rarely think what it's like for people in countries that don't have such freedoms.

Yet to claim we're non appreciative is a rather simplistic.A site like this,the notion of government conspiracy suggests that many people do value their freedoms and will make plenty of noise if it's threatened or percieved to be threatened in anyway.Those that don't care about their rights aren't going to post their opinions to sites like this,be suspicious and watchful of the government motives so I don't believe that we necessarily should praise our government and our systems for our western way of life or that being critical of the same government is in anyway not appreciating those freedoms.The right to vote,freedom of speech etc are rights,in the UK at least,that have taken a 1000 years to win and shouldn't be just dismissed as nothing of consequence,likewise those same rights aren't ours because of our present governments and I have believed since before 9/11 that they'll happily take many of them away to make the majority of us tools of the 'market' which seems to be the only thing that does matter to government in the end.

We should appreciate what we do have in the west but that doesn't mean we shouldn't fight to keep it or improve our positions,nor should we ease up on the authorities or believe they have our own interests at heart because they're not as outwardly draconian as administrations elsewhere in the world !!



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 11:46 PM
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Originally posted by Cyn50
Hello everyone, especially my fellow Americans,

to briefly introduce myself and inform you of the situation, I am a college student, in my sophemore year. I'm sure some of you nuts would insist that my being on ATS hurts my odds at landing a job there, or that I am actually a government spy trying to mind control blah blah blah you, and I assure you that is not the case. I don't go for many of the conspiracies here, I don't think the world is as bad a place as many of you make it out to be, but I do thirst for knowledge.

I want to bring to attention one specific thing the General said, looking me right in the eyes and speaking in that heavy eastern European (think russian) accent. And I quote:

"Freedom, you American's need to cherish your freedom. You do not know how bad it is until you lose it. We cherish your western values, sometimes more than your own people do. Protect your freedom at all costs."

I don't know much history on eastern Europe, but if you want to fact check him feel free to. To me it doesn't really matter. To me all that matters is that he is right, our country is a great country. We are a lot better off than so so much of the world, yet constantly you people talk about apocalypse and doom and gloom, world war three and civil war. I understand this is a conspiracy site, don't take me the wrong way. Even if I don't believe much of what is said on here, it is very entertaining.

What I am getting at is that America is a great place to live in the world. Be grateful. Appreciate the people around you. You could be in a much harder place right now, but you are in America.


Fairly sophomoric take on what was said by that General. I don't suppose you may have noticed a bit of erosion of that greatness, those freedoms, and American prestige among the nations of the world in your brief time. A bit less complacent and full of hyped-up pride and you may understand why many others here are concerned about the current state of affairs.

Do you believe America will stay forever great if all just continue to salute the flag and accept without question whatever the capitol decides for us? Maybe that will be true enough for many and all it will really take for them. For the time being at least you can be entertained even if you don't believe the population must struggle to maintain those ideals. Truth is, blind obedience and compliance does not promote liberty. I believe that General may know well what he is talking about. Some would be bound to miss his point though.

In my lifetime I have seen many struggles won and many injustices corrected, then I have seen much just chucked aside. My generation felt we had the numbers and the resolve to make things right and fair and just for everyone. It was something we could be proud about, but pride should not supplant resolve if we wanted to continue that reform.

Newer generations that never had to use the back entrance of a restaurant, sit in certain sections only, or give up their seat on the bus, none of them could be expected to continue fighting to preserve liberty. Don't you know things were always fair and just and right in America? All we have to do is continue believing it, no matter what.


edit on 28-2-2013 by Erongaricuaro because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 12:54 AM
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reply to post by Happy1
 


I love how you made it either conservative or communist there like that. Not conservative does not equal communist. Some things should be privately owned and run, and some things need to be maintained and managed for the public good.

Absolutely everything has become about profit and money. The erosion of our freedoms has increased with the rate of privatization of the public's interests. The big, increasingly intrusive government is the direct result of that.




Conservatives seem to think the answer is to dismantle government, deregulate everything and allow it all to be run privately...but that corporation is beholden to it's stockholders...NOT YOU or your freedom or privacy.

It is the influence of big money on our government that is the problem. The more intrusive the goverment becomes the more money they make selling it equipment and technology to spy on us with. They use that info to incarcerate us in private prisons for more money.


Our colleges become less accessible as profits increase and proficiency and graduation rates decrease. They sell our children books every year at exorbitant prices that provide the same information as the last edition. The ones who do graduate are crippled with debt and a subpar education that doesn't give them the skills to change any of these things.


It is the castration and misuse of our government that erodes our freedoms, not government itself.



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 01:16 AM
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I kind of wandered off track but absolutely agree with the OP.

Many don't appreciate how good things are here. They have never gone without or had to ration food or water.

They think saying no to drugs is war and shopping is a way to fight terrorism.

People take this awesome democracy for granted without realizing the need to participate in its maintenance. We need to teach them how vital that is and show them how.



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 02:17 AM
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Yeah yeah yeah, We've heard it all before.

"as long as there are other countries out there in the world with LESS freedom, then we have nothing to complain about."

That about sum it up?

Well, I don't give two squirts of piss what other countries are doing.
I live in America and I'll be goddamned if I am going to just accept what little freedoms they will allow me because some other country has it worse.


I DEMAND ALL of my freedoms innumerated in the constitution and then some.

I will NOT be happy with what little I have.

Thank you sir.



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 02:41 AM
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reply to post by Cyn50
 





"Freedom, you American's need to cherish your freedom. You do not know how bad it is until you lose it. We cherish your western values, sometimes more than your own people do. Protect your freedom at all costs."


This is something I very much agree with as an eastern European. There has been a constant thread of pathological authoritarianism in European politics, stretching from absolutist kingdoms, through nazism, communist dictatorships, and even nowadays it is still present. Cherish your freedom, because while European countries are arguably better off in some areas than US, I want to stress that it is not because of these authoritarian tendencies, but in spite of them!
edit on 1/3/13 by Maslo because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 03:35 AM
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Over in Russia, they value freedom because they were under totalitarian communist regimes for so long. If you go to the Russian Times, you will get to see all sorts of articles (well-documented) about things like TrapWire, drones, video camera surveillance and more.

The Russians know what is coming. They've been there.



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 05:56 AM
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reply to post by Cyn50
 


One of the problems with America is ... Americans.

A large demographic sampling are thoroughly self entitled, spoiled rotten, and would go out of their way to make something up to complain about if they didn't have any genuine complaint.

That same demographic have never been outside the country.

Ask most people that have been abroad travelling extensively what the richest or wealthiest country they've visited is, and typically, the answer is USA.

Even if there were random checkpoints, gun confiscation, and the revocation of some privacy rights in allowing public strip searches for any or no reason at all, no matter how much all the mealy mouthed complainers make noise about it, USA would still for the most part be the most "free" country on the planet.

Whatever the case, with Americans, whatever "more" is, they want it.
The US $ should read Semper opulenta, insaturabilia or, Always Wealthy, Never Satisfied.



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 07:51 AM
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come spend some time over here in australia and tell me what a great and free place the US is then


from over here you're starting to look pretty bloody poverty stricken, oppressed, controlled.... and the future holds nothing but bad news when you look at all the indicators in your economy.


Sure, there are places worse than the US, but it's not the shining star of prosperity and freedom it once was.







 
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