Psychological Child Abuse?

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


Oh my god. No one is discussing her get a surgical sex change at 6 years old.

At all.

Originally posted by Miraj

Originally posted by sloppypeter

I agree with you 100%. If this child had a penis and a vagina, then I could understand the parents having an issue with the school. Since HE has a penis only, he belongs in the boys restroom.

What does it matter?

The article said that the child has a passport and state issued ID saying that he is female. Isn't that a crime for the parents to lie on an application for these documents? The parents probably registered the child in school as a girl. They state in the interview that the school is forcing a little girl to use the boy's restroom. What are they thinking, because they raise their boy as a girl, and because the boy thinks he is a girl, that makes the child a girl?

There are ways to legally do it that a doctor and therapist can sign off on it.

If I went in to a public female restroom (not by accident), I would be arrested. If i told the police I was allowed in there because I think I'm a girl, that should make it OK-----NO it doesn't. These parents are screwed up in the head. If they want to treat their boy as a girl, fine, but he should not have a passport or state ID saying HE is a she, and he doesn't belong in the girls room. They need to think about the real girls that use that restroom that are sharing it with a boy.

edit on 1-3-2013 by sloppypeter because: (no reason given)

No, you wouldn't be arrested. You'd be asked to leave. It's not actually against the law for a man to go into a womans restroom.
However, you're kind of exxagerating the circumstances now aren't you?

Originally posted by Miraj

Originally posted by sloppypeter

I agree with you 100%. If this child had a penis and a vagina, then I could understand the parents having an issue with the school. Since HE has a penis only, he belongs in the boys restroom.

What does it matter?

The article said that the child has a passport and state issued ID saying that he is female. Isn't that a crime for the parents to lie on an application for these documents? The parents probably registered the child in school as a girl. They state in the interview that the school is forcing a little girl to use the boy's restroom. What are they thinking, because they raise their boy as a girl, and because the boy thinks he is a girl, that makes the child a girl?

There are ways to legally do it that a doctor and therapist can sign off on it.

If I went in to a public female restroom (not by accident), I would be arrested. If i told the police I was allowed in there because I think I'm a girl, that should make it OK-----NO it doesn't. These parents are screwed up in the head. If they want to treat their boy as a girl, fine, but he should not have a passport or state ID saying HE is a she, and he doesn't belong in the girls room. They need to think about the real girls that use that restroom that are sharing it with a boy.

edit on 1-3-2013 by sloppypeter because: (no reason given)

No, you wouldn't be arrested. You'd be asked to leave. It's not actually against the law for a man to go into a womans restroom.
However, you're kind of exxagerating the circumstances now aren't you?

I have seen a man get arrested for intentionally going in a women's restroom. It was at a casino I worked at. His friends dared him to do it. About five women came out extremely upset. I don't know what he did inside the bathroom, but he did leave in handcuffs.

I think a man/boy using a woman's/girls restroom because the men's/boys room is full, and it's a matter of pooping your pants, is something different than entering because your buddies dare you, or because you would rather be a girl. I just think if you are a boy you should use the boy's restroom (if it's available).

I respect your opinion, but don't you think some of your responses in this thread are rude? You can disagree and debate with people in a more respectful manner.

Originally posted by sloppypeter

I have seen a man get arrested for intentionally going in a women's restroom. It was at a casino I worked at. His friends dared him to do it. About five women came out extremely upset. I don't know what he did inside the bathroom, but he did leave in handcuffs.

If they came out extremely upset I'm betting he did more than just walk into it.

I think a man/boy using a woman's/girls restroom because the men's/boys room is full, and it's a matter of pooping your pants, is something different than entering because your buddies dare you, or because you would rather be a girl. I just think if you are a boy you should use the boy's restroom (if it's available).

Should this person be going into a boy's restroom?

I respect your opinion, but don't you think some of your responses in this thread are rude? You can disagree and debate with people in a more respectful manner.

edit on 2-3-2013 by sloppypeter because: spelling

Yes. I do. I won't sit around and be insulted. What you think is "polite discussion", actually far from is. Saying "HE" should use the boys restroom is equivalent to me saying calling black people 'n-word's instead of african-american or black people.

If people want respectful responses they should give respectful comments first.

Once again for like the third time I've said it in this thread, a sex change operation wouldn't be performed until the patient is 18.

how about letting the boy decide and find naturally what he wants? this obviously isn't the case, given his knowledge that such an operation exists at 4. it's the same mechanism behind cults, see my westboro baptist post above. do you think those children formed their views of homosexuals on their own, and that god blew up the space shuttle because he hates mankind? no. it all came from the parents, and it's sick to introduce children to things before they're able to understand and decide for themselves.

Because she understood what a doctor was and that she has the wrong parts. I know a lot of transsexuals that attempted to remove their parts.

by the same logic i'm a millionaire, i just don't have the right bank account, but i believe i am, and that's what counts, right? *sarcasm*

There are actual verifiable structures in the brain which different between male and female. While there's no consistent data, there have been studies that show transsexuals had these structures that were more consistent with their true gender.

i'd like to read those studies if you would provide them. the corpus callosum is always damaged in males due to testosterone. there are variations in it's damage, but damage is always present. the corpus callosum serves as one of the biggest physical brain differences that affects global processing. while there is a gradient, and men with less damage can process things with both hemispheres easier, it doesn't make them female.

reply to post by Miraj

Oh my god. No one is discussing her get a surgical sex change at 6 years old. At all.

really? cuz he is.

“She started saying things like, ‘When are we going to go to the doctor to get me fixed?’” -Kathryn Mathis

btw, in what way is he a girl? the clothes he wears and what he thinks?

Should this person be going into a boy's restroom?

should cross-dressers be allowed into the opposite sex's restroom? he's a boy with long hair wearing a dress.
let me just include some quotes from "transgender" individuals:

Katie added: 'Even from age three, I knew deep down I wanted to be a girl.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Ever since I was a little boy everyone would say how pretty of a girl I was.....Thinking back to the first years of realizing that I was different takes me back to kindergarten days. This was when I first realized that I wasn�t a girl but a little boy.

ai.eecs.umich.edu...

but just as often as i am content to be a guy, i wish i was a girl, and I am jealous of female bodies.

uk.answers.yahoo.com...

being transgender, in their own words, is that they wanted to be the other sex, opposed to "being born in the wrong body".

reply to post by Bob Sholtz

how about letting the boy decide and find naturally what he wants? this obviously isn't the case, given his knowledge that such an operation exists at 4. it's the same mechanism behind cults, see my westboro baptist post above. do you think those children formed their views of homosexuals on their own, and that god blew up the space shuttle because he hates mankind? no. it all came from the parents, and it's sick to introduce children to things before they're able to understand and decide for themselves.

That's what she is doing you dimwit.

by the same logic i'm a millionaire, i just don't have the right bank account, but i believe i am, and that's what counts, right? *sarcasm*

You're right, that analogy completely is comparable to this situation. I'm completely wrong.

i'd like to read those studies if you would provide them. the corpus callosum is always damaged in males due to testosterone. there are variations in it's damage, but damage is always present. the corpus callosum serves as one of the biggest physical brain differences that affects global processing. while there is a gradient, and men with less damage can process things with both hemispheres easier, it doesn't make them female.

I'd have to find them.

really? cuz he is.

Except no doctor would perform it.

btw, in what way is he a girl? the clothes he wears and what he thinks?

Maybe the fact that she started acting like a normal child when she was able to dress like a girl?

should cross-dressers be allowed into the opposite sex's restroom? he's a boy with long hair wearing a dress.

No, but cross dressing is different than transsexualism. Cross dressers (mostly men) consider themselves men (or women in the rare case) but just enjoy wearing opposite gender clothing. Transsexualism like this child has involves hormone therapy, which she obviously can't receive yet since she's 6.


Can you tell me what is wrong with her using the girls restroom? It's not like shes running around with her skirt hiked up or a giant penis monster bursts out of the floor and devours a girl as a sacrifice every time she goes to the bathroom. All that happens when this girl goes to the bathroom is that the girl goes to the bathroom.

That's what she is doing you dimwit.

no need for name-calling. i've already explained and shown through research that young children are incapable of understanding the consequences of decisions. he specifically asked for "the doctor to fix me" at age four, which isn't something he could have known without the parents explaining it.

You're right, that analogy completely is comparable to this situation. I'm completely wrong.

how is it not. i simply changed the variables in the equation from someone wanting to be the other sex, or believing they are, to someone wanting or believing they are a millionaire. you accept and deny the exact same equation, this is known as a fallacy.

Maybe the fact that she started acting like a normal child when she was able to dress like a girl?

clothes and hair length don't dictate gender.

No, but cross dressing is different than transsexualism. Cross dressers (mostly men) consider themselves men (or women in the rare case) but just enjoy wearing opposite gender clothing.

so in your own words he is cross dressing, by enjoying feminine clothes and being a male.

All that happens when this girl goes to the bathroom is that the girl goes to the bathroom.

again i ask what makes him a girl? men and women's bathrooms accommodate each respective sex according to what organs they have. it's impractical and potentially disturbing/damaging to real girls. if he were 40 and believed he should have been a girl, but was still sexually interested in girls, would you allow it?

reply to post by Bob Sholtz

no need for name-calling. i've already explained and shown through research that young children are incapable of understanding the consequences of decisions. he specifically asked for "the doctor to fix me" at age four, which isn't something he could have known without the parents explaining it.

And? She didn't say "Mommy can you please take me to Doctor X to have a neovagina formed out of my penis."

When I was 5 I injured my forearm. I went to my mother and told her that I thought I needed to go to the doctor and get stitches. Are you implying that because I said I needed stitches that I must clearly know the in depth procedure in how I would get those stitches. Or could It have been that I knew that I wasn't supposed to have a 4 inch gash in my forearm and that I needed to go and get it fixed?

how is it not. i simply changed the variables in the equation from someone wanting to be the other sex, or believing they are, to someone wanting or believing they are a millionaire. you accept and deny the exact same equation, this is known as a fallacy.

I wasn't being sarcastic. I fully believe this is a completely fair analogy and I wish you luck in your life transition to becoming a millionaire.

clothes and hair length don't dictate gender.

No, no they don't. But denying there's a reason boys dress the way they dress and girls dress the way they dress and grow their hair longer would be hard.

so in your own words he is cross dressing, by enjoying feminine clothes and being a male.

Except. You skipped the part where she denies being a boy.

again i ask what makes him a girl? men and women's bathrooms accommodate each respective sex according to what organs they have.

Only she and her family could tell us that. What makes you a man? Do you walk around with your penis out all day to show everyone that you are?

it's impractical and potentially disturbing/damaging to real girls.

You know. I've talked to a lot of girls about this, obviously not little girls. But teens, adult women. Most of them just didn't even care. There is of course some who don't like it. I don't hold that against them. But most of the people claiming to be defending the rights of girls are unanimously men. How much time do you spend in a womens restroom to know what is right for them, and what gives you the right to decide for women?


On the other hand, Bob. Would you be disturbed if a man that had been born a female used the restroom? I'm interested to hear how you'd feel about that.

if he were 40 and believed he should have been a girl, but was still sexually interested in girls, would you allow it?

It varies, at some point yes. It happens. However, if someone isn't willing to do hormone therapy or allow surgical castration, then no. I don't think sexual assault is a real concern from transsexuals.

By that token should Butch lesbians be banned from using the womens room? What about gay men from using the bathroom with straight men?

When I was 5 I injured my forearm. I went to my mother and told her that I thought I needed to go to the doctor and get stitches. Are you implying that because I said I needed stitches that I must clearly know the in depth procedure in how I would get those stitches. Or could It have been that I knew that I wasn't supposed to have a 4 inch gash in my forearm and that I needed to go and get it fixed?

nope, because getting stitches is something you would have likely been exposed to at that point already. it's about when and how a person is exposed to an idea, and if it is reinforced through some form of conditioning or not.

I wasn't being sarcastic. I fully believe this is a completely fair analogy and I wish you luck in your life transition to becoming a millionaire.

"becoming" implies that neither my wish nor belief changes the fact that i'm not a millionaire, as this child is not a girl.

No, no they don't. But denying there's a reason boys dress the way they dress and girls dress the way they dress and grow their hair longer would be hard.

it stems from the culture the child is brought up in, as do most ideas they hold...

Except. You skipped the part where she denies being a boy.

again, beliefs don't dictate reality. coy is a boy.

Only she and her family could tell us that. What makes you a man? Do you walk around with your penis out all day to show everyone that you are?

so you are unable or unwilling to offer a reason as to why he is a girl. he fits the genitals bill, and i guarantee he also fits the brain structures build (because it comes from having testosterone introduced).

You know. I've talked to a lot of girls about this, obviously not little girls. But teens, adult women. Most of them just didn't even care. There is of course some who don't like it. I don't hold that against them. But most of the people claiming to be defending the rights of girls are unanimously men. How much time do you spend in a womens restroom to know what is right for them, and what gives you the right to decide for women?

firstly, we aren't talking about women here, we're talking about little girls and a boy in their bathroom, but if you want a real world example:

There is an interesting case out of Olympia, Washington where a transgender person is alleging discrimination after being asked to leave the women’s locker room due to his exposing himself to young girls.

jonathanturley.org... to-young-girls/

On the other hand, Bob. Would you be disturbed if a man that had been born a female used the restroom? I'm interested to hear how you'd feel about that.

it disturbs me that people get sex changes. i don't hate the people, but i do think it is wrong. in every description i could find, they all said "i WANTED to be a boy, or WANTED to be a girl", but i suppose this is the age when anyone can have whatever they want regardless of the consequences.

It varies, at some point yes. It happens. However, if someone isn't willing to do hormone therapy or allow surgical castration, then no. I don't think sexual assault is a real concern from transsexuals.

so here your position went from "who are we to tell them what the child's gender is" to denying someone the ability to act and dress like the gender they want to be.

By that token should Butch lesbians be banned from using the womens room? What about gay men from using the bathroom with straight men?

such ideas don't form at 4 years old naturally. saying that, the bathroom issue is about protecting real girls from being exposed to things that their parents don't want them exposed to. flashing is defined as sexual assault, and whether it is intended as such or not, there is no taking it back.

nope, because getting stitches is something you would have likely been exposed to at that point already. it's about when and how a person is exposed to an idea, and if it is reinforced through some form of conditioning or not.

Not really. I was five. My parents weren't doctors or nurses. I did understand that a doctor could help fix things wrong with your body.

"becoming" implies that neither my wish nor belief changes the fact that i'm not a millionaire, as this child is not a girl.

There would certainly be a process to make your millionaire mind match your bank account, right? Just like she had her process to switching to being a girl. And will have to continue it medically in about six years until she is eighteen.

it stems from the culture the child is brought up in, as do most ideas they hold...

So you could rephrase that and say that there is a social part about gender, ja?

again, beliefs don't dictate reality. coy is a boy.

Coy is happy being a girl. Would you prefer she be forced into something she's unhappy believing or that she is allowed to have a normal childhood?

so you are unable or unwilling to offer a reason as to why he is a girl. he fits the genitals bill, and i guarantee he also fits the brain structures build (because it comes from having testosterone introduced).

You don't really offer a reason why she isn't beyond "She just isn't" yourself. I'm seeing a person, not a vagina or a penis.

firstly, we aren't talking about women here, we're talking about little girls and a boy in their bathroom, but if you want a real world example:

I'm well aware of this case. I don't support this person at all. This is a highly unusual case at that, as most transsexuals would never act the way this person did. I'd like to note that, man, woman, in-between she still acted in a completely un-acceptable way. If my mother walked in with me in a girls locker room and saw a woman sitting there with her legs spread she would have dragged me out whether she had a penis or a vagina.

But this case is pretty unusual, thousands of transsexuals that aren't post op use facilities all the same without incident.

it disturbs me that people get sex changes. i don't hate the people, but i do think it is wrong. in every description i could find, they all said "i WANTED to be a boy, or WANTED to be a girl", but i suppose this is the age when anyone can have whatever they want regardless of the consequences.

It's improper to read at just "I wanted'. As a child, it might just be I want, or I knew. As an teen or adult? They don't tell you the part where they were so distraught with themselves that cutting, suicide, drugs, alcohol were the only other solution.

I don't think you've had a real chance to understand us.

so here your position went from "who are we to tell them what the child's gender is" to denying someone the ability to act and dress like the gender they want to be.

My position is that children can't have sex. My position is that children don't really know about sex. Well. In most cases. They aren't old enough to start hormone therapies. As an adult it differs. Because you know what? there's fairly immediate treatments available. Hormone Therapy doesn't take the same requirements that it used to. Which pretty much means that if someone isn't willing to take it but still wanted to dress as a woman and use the womens restroom then it becomes more suspicious.

So I'm not at all saying adults can't switch to the gender they know they belong is, I'm saying there's more steps beyond putting on a dress and a wig.

such ideas don't form at 4 years old naturally. saying that, the bathroom issue is about protecting real girls from being exposed to things that their parents don't want them exposed to. flashing is defined as sexual assault, and whether it is intended as such or not, there is no taking it back.

And Coy isn't approaching anyone sexually either. She's six.

Not really. I was five. My parents weren't doctors or nurses. I did understand that a doctor could help fix things wrong with your body.

precisely my point. stitches are common, and don't even count as surgery.

There would certainly be a process to make your millionaire mind match your bank account, right? Just like she had her process to switching to being a girl. And will have to continue it medically in about six years until she is eighteen.

which makes "her" actually a boy. he isn't receiving hormonal treatment, nor has he had a sex change. though even a sex change is a shadow of actually being the opposite sex. there is nothing physically wrong with him.

So you could rephrase that and say that there is a social part about gender, ja?

no. different cultures have different societal norms when it comes to outward appearance. scots wore kilts, which are a form of skirt, but it didn't influence their gender.

Coy is happy being a girl. Would you prefer she be forced into something she's unhappy believing or that she is allowed to have a normal childhood?

coy is happy, and he is a boy. clothes and hair don't change gender, if they did, there would be no need for invasive procedures to produce a mockery of the opposite sex. would i prefer he accept what is true over a lie? yes. in other scenarios, such as a loved one dying, a person refusing to admit they're dead and act as if they're still alive would border on psychological issues. i'm not sure how much farther from a normal childhood coy could get.

You don't really offer a reason why she isn't beyond "She just isn't" yourself. I'm seeing a person, not a vagina or a penis.

i offered plenty of reasons, such as possessing all male organs. you're seeing a boy dressed up in female clothes with long hair, that isn't a "person". the mother is a professional photographer if you didn't know, specializing in children. the mom could make any child look any way, but it doesn't change reality.

I'm well aware of this case. I don't support this person at all. This is a highly unusual case at that, as most transsexuals would never act the way this person did. I'd like to note that, man, woman, in-between she still acted in a completely un-acceptable way. If my mother walked in with me in a girls locker room and saw a woman sitting there with her legs spread she would have dragged me out whether she had a penis or a vagina.

it was a sauna. the only difference is age. how dare you judge "her" for acting how "she" feels "she" is. bit of a double standard.

It's improper to read at just "I wanted'. As a child, it might just be I want, or I knew. As an teen or adult? They don't tell you the part where they were so distraught with themselves that cutting, suicide, drugs, alcohol were the only other solution.

none of the quotes i gave came from children, they were all adults. all of those are classic symptoms of an emotionally disturbed person, i know them well personally and have studied psychology.

I don't think you've had a real chance to understand us.

logical fallacies cannot be understood. he has every characteristic of a person that makes them male, yet you insist on saying "she" without offering any evidence that he is actually a girl, or clarifying in any way.

My position is that children can't have sex. My position is that children don't really know about sex. Well. In most cases.

yes, in most cases, which is why the parent's agenda is suspect. if you look at photos before coy stated that he wanted an operation, you'll see already the parents were dressing him more feminine, and with longer hair.

Which pretty much means that if someone isn't willing to take it but still wanted to dress as a woman and use the womens restroom then it becomes more suspicious.

this is hypocritical with your previous position of "who are you to say what gender they are, it's none of your business". seems you are quite capable of judging when you don't like the consequences.

And Coy isn't approaching anyone sexually either. She's six.

as a male, i'd get thrown out of a woman's restroom regardless of whether i approached anyone sexually. it's the idea that young girls are being exposed to male genitals.

reply to post by Bob Sholtz

precisely my point. stitches are common, and don't even count as surgery.

To which she had said "Take me to the doctor and get me fixed." A very childish way of saying it. She didn't say "Mommy, I need sexual re-assignment surgery"

which makes "her" actually a boy. he isn't receiving hormonal treatment, nor has he had a sex change. though even a sex change is a shadow of actually being the opposite sex. there is nothing physically wrong with him.

Nothing wrong with her at all. Again. She's too young to receive any therapies or surgeries. For now her parents are doing what they can to give her a normal childhood.

no. different cultures have different societal norms when it comes to outward appearance. scots wore kilts, which are a form of skirt, but it didn't influence their gender.

You're dodging my question. She's conforming to the social norms of females in OUR society and happily doing so.

coy is happy, and he is a boy. clothes and hair don't change gender, if they did, there would be no need for invasive procedures to produce a mockery of the opposite sex. would i prefer he accept what is true over a lie? yes. in other scenarios, such as a loved one dying, a person refusing to admit they're dead and act as if they're still alive would border on psychological issues. i'm not sure how much farther from a normal childhood coy could get.

She seems pretty happy living as a female. Surgery is a decision she can make when she is an adult.

i offered plenty of reasons, such as possessing all male organs. you're seeing a boy dressed up in female clothes with long hair, that isn't a "person". the mother is a professional photographer if you didn't know, specializing in children. the mom could make any child look any way, but it doesn't change reality.

And I also saw the video footage, seemed like a pretty average little girl to me. I failed to see the part where she became a raging steroid mess and raped a girl in the bathroom.

it was a sauna. the only difference is age. how dare you judge "her" for acting how "she" feels "she" is. bit of a double standard.

I actually have the room to judge her, Bob. And I think the way she acted was wrong. She's got a history of showing off, if you will. But it's atypical of the community.

none of the quotes i gave came from children, they were all adults. all of those are classic symptoms of an emotionally disturbed person, i know them well personally and have studied psychology.

Lynn Connway doesn't give the full picture.

logical fallacies cannot be understood. he has every characteristic of a person that makes them male, yet you insist on saying "she" without offering any evidence that he is actually a girl, or clarifying in any way.

You're to prejudiced to WANT to understand. You obsess over genitals and won't see a person. Try seeing the people!

yes, in most cases, which is why the parent's agenda is suspect. if you look at photos before coy stated that he wanted an operation, you'll see already the parents were dressing him more feminine, and with longer hair.

Did you watch the video?

this is hypocritical with your previous position of "who are you to say what gender they are, it's none of your business". seems you are quite capable of judging when you don't like the consequences.

There are standards. But ignore that I stated what the standards were and how a person could achieve them in this day without great difficulty.

as a male, i'd get thrown out of a woman's restroom regardless of whether i approached anyone sexually. it's the idea that young girls are being exposed to male genitals.

Yes. Yes you would. But what if you spent a year on female hormones and maybe even had that sex change? You might get thrown out still. It's difficult for older transsexuals to 'pass' as it's said. But what if you did pass? No woman would ever know, you'd go to the bathroom and probably not rape anyone in the process.

But what if you were Coy. Say, ten years from now? You're sixteen. You're a girl. Lived as a girl your whole life, and you've had female puberty. No one knows about you but your family, are you still going to be thrown out?

To which she had said "Take me to the doctor and get me fixed." A very childish way of saying it. She didn't say "Mommy, I need sexual re-assignment surgery"

it implies he has been exposed to knowledge of such things before he is able to make up his own mind. children can't seriously ask for things that they aren't aware of.

Nothing wrong with her at all. Again. She's too young to receive any therapies or surgeries. For now her parents are doing what they can to give her a normal childhood.

hardly a normal childhood. if there is nothing wrong, why is a procedure needed?

You're dodging my question. She's conforming to the social norms of females in OUR society and happily doing so.

while being a male. this is called cross-dressing, and isn't the social norm.

She seems pretty happy living as a female. Surgery is a decision she can make when she is an adult.

introducing him to the concepts at such a young age robs him of the ability to make a rational and informed decision. we've already established there is more to being female than clothes and hair, and he is male.

And I also saw the video footage, seemed like a pretty average little girl to me. I failed to see the part where she became a raging steroid mess and raped a girl in the bathroom.

"seemed" being the operative word. you have yet to explain how he is a girl in any way, shape, or form besides clothes and hair. outward appearances.

I actually have the room to judge her, Bob. And I think the way she acted was wrong. She's got a history of showing off, if you will. But it's atypical of the community.

how can you judge him, as "gender is what you think you are"

You're to prejudiced to WANT to understand. You obsess over genitals and won't see a person. Try seeing the people!

i'm trying to understand, it's just that you haven't given a clear explanation for what makes him a girl. sights are deceptive, i look at who someone truly is.

Did you watch the video?

which one? the interview? i've seen several. he didn't even speak during the interview, it was all the parents. i wonder where he gets these ideas, it's obviously not the vocal parents

There are standards. But ignore that I stated what the standards were and how a person could achieve them in this day without great difficulty.

standards that defy logic and consistency, only adhering to a twisted world view.

Yes. Yes you would. But what if you spent a year on female hormones and maybe even had that sex change? You might get thrown out still. It's difficult for older transsexuals to 'pass' as it's said. But what if you did pass? No woman would ever know, you'd go to the bathroom and probably not rape anyone in the process.

but this boy, who isn't on hormonal treatments, shouldn't be prohibited? more double standards and regressing back to the theory that outward image dictates who a person is.

But what if you were Coy. Say, ten years from now? You're sixteen. You're a girl. Lived as a girl your whole life, and you've had female puberty. No one knows about you but your family, are you still going to be thrown out?

regardless of my perspective on sex changes, the biggest issue is that coy ISN'T being given a choice. why do you think the parents didn't wait until he was 16ish to discuss these matters? because the mind isn't as susceptible to outside influence. the parents took his choice away, the same as the westboro baptist church shaped the opinions of those kids, or any religious indoctrination.

here is coy mathis without long hair and girl clothes, posing for his mom (a professional photographer) with an unhappy face.

he's wearing the same expression during the interview.

he has been traumatized by all this confusion that the parents introduced. the only photos of coy smiling are photo ops (mostly done by the mom).

not smiling when photos are taken on the sly.

i see a very confused child, and you honestly think the parents had nothing to do with introducing and supporting the idea?

reply to post by Bob Sholtz

it implies he has been exposed to knowledge of such things before he is able to make up his own mind. children can't seriously ask for things that they aren't aware of.

Or it implies the childish sense of "theres something wrong, doctor can fix me"

hardly a normal childhood. if there is nothing wrong, why is a procedure needed?

Not by your standards. But a normal one all the same.\

while being a male. this is called cross-dressing, and isn't the social norm.

Except it isn't cross dressing. And you know its not. Quit twisting my words. She doesn't identify with being male.

introducing him to the concepts at such a young age robs him of the ability to make a rational and informed decision. we've already established there is more to being female than clothes and hair, and he is male.

Allowing her to live as she sees fit as a child spares her the pain and regret. We haven't established anything, because again you've twisted my words and yours.

"seemed" being the operative word. you have yet to explain how he is a girl in any way, shape, or form besides clothes and hair. outward appearances.

Because it would be correct to make sure that we lift every girls dress up and make sure she has a vagina right?

how can you judge him, as "gender is what you think you are"

Because, I don't know, I am a transsexual and I have to deal with morons like you taking an unusual case as proof that all transsexuals are cross dressing pervs out to rape and hurt little girls?

What about you, Bob? Own any guns. Gonna go and shoot up a school? How about drinking beer? Gonna go and plow your truck through a crowd of school children at a museum? Maybe I can assume that you want to go tranny bashing and shoot a cross dresser on the street. Better call the police before that happens. I know what you're really thinking, Bob.

I have to deal with the repricussions of what people like Colleen do because people like you want to believe that all transsexuals are nothing but rapists in womens clothing.

i'm trying to understand, it's just that you haven't given a clear explanation for what makes him a girl. sights are deceptive, i look at who someone truly is.

You assume without even knowing her. A six year old kid isn't out to deceive anyone.

which one? the interview? i've seen several. he didn't even speak during the interview, it was all the parents. i wonder where he gets these ideas, it's obviously not the vocal parents

The parents are only defending their ability to raise their child. It's kind of hard to say they want "All girls" when they actually have boys. Did you see Coy's twin? Not dressing as a girl.

standards that defy logic and consistency, only adhering to a twisted world view.

Except the standards don't.

but this boy, who isn't on hormonal treatments, shouldn't be prohibited? more double standards and regressing back to the theory that outward image dictates who a person is.

The child -can't- be on hormonal treatments. If you can't separate that then you clearly don't have the knowledge of biology that you claim to have.

Do I need to explain what Puberty is, Bob?

regardless of my perspective on sex changes, the biggest issue is that coy ISN'T being given a choice. why do you think the parents didn't wait until he was 16ish to discuss these matters? because the mind isn't as susceptible to outside influence. the parents took his choice away, the same as the westboro baptist church shaped the opinions of those kids, or any religious indoctrination.

Because waiting until 16 years old has been proven to be psychologically damaging?

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


Of course that frowning expression has nothing to do with being in front of an audience and on tv.


I can post the pictures of her smiling if you prefer. I even caught a smile when her mother talked of her wearing girls clothing. You wouldn't understand that significance, but I do.

Except it isn't cross dressing. And you know its not. Quit twisting my words. She doesn't identify with being male.

how many times do i have to state that reality isn't dictated by opinions.

Allowing her to live as she sees fit as a child spares her the pain and regret. We haven't established anything, because again you've twisted my words and yours.

as he sees fit, or the parents?

Because it would be correct to make sure that we lift every girls dress up and make sure she has a vagina right?

as children are born without clothes, such a thing is not needed. are you denying that he is a male, if so, why?

Because, I don't know, I am a transsexual and I have to deal with morons like you taking an unusual case as proof that all transsexuals are cross dressing pervs out to rape and hurt little girls?

again with the name calling...anyways, he never attempted to rape or hurt anyone physically, or even intended psychological harm.

I have to deal with the repricussions of what people like Colleen do because people like you want to believe that all transsexuals are nothing but rapists in womens clothing.

you sure do give off a lot of hate for someone who is supposed to be accepting.

You assume without even knowing her. A six year old kid isn't out to deceive anyone.

perhaps (though children are quite capable of deception), though as i've been saying all along, it is the parents.

The parents are only defending their ability to raise their child. It's kind of hard to say they want "All girls" when they actually have boys. Did you see Coy's twin? Not dressing as a girl.

i'm quite aware that the issue doesn't stem from the parents wanting all girl children, it stems from other motives. publicity, financial, being trendy, etc.

The child -can't- be on hormonal treatments. If you can't separate that then you clearly don't have the knowledge of biology that you claim to have. Do I need to explain what Puberty is, Bob?

more patronizing. acceptance indeed. i'm making the point in a strictly logical fashion, that a boy wearing girl clothes is a cross dresser.

Because waiting until 16 years old has been proven to be psychologically damaging?

can you cite some sources for that? what is damaging specifically?

Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by Bob Sholtz

 

Of course that frowning expression has nothing to do with being in front of an audience and on tv.


I can post the pictures of her smiling if you prefer. I even caught a smile when her mother talked of her wearing girls clothing. You wouldn't understand that significance, but I do.

and what about the other pictures when he isn't in front of tons of people, yet still frowning?

the smile is even more evidence of conditioning. a reaction to praise as a positive stimulus.

I'm going to resign from this thread.


It was nice debating with you Bob, but I don't believe we'll reach any sort of agreement. We've been saying the same things over and over for a day.