Idiot Alert! Biden on Self Defense, Round Two: "Fire the Shotgun at the Door"

reply to post by DarKPenguiN

You people saying Shotguns are for people with "bad aim" probabl;y have never been in an actual life/death situation involving firearms.

True enough.
The shot pattern spreads relatively little when you are shooting across a room or even the length of the average house for that matter.

The trouble with shotguns in combat is that when you are shooting at a target at the outside half of the effective range (which is much shorter with a shotgun vs a rifle), you need larger shot sizes to cause damage(effective) to the target. The larger the shot size, the fewer pellets in a load.... meaning fewer pellets to hit your target. The longer the distance to the target, the more the pattern spreads.

At the distances encountered if you are using a shotgun inside the home for defense, you can use skeet loads, and you will still be punching one large hole in your attacker.

With a pistol or rifle, you can be accurate, and you know exactly what to expect if you hit the target inside the weapons effective range. With a shotgun, you are hoping that the load that you have will be effective at the distance that you end up engaging the target at, because you can't expect to achieve accurate placement of any of the number projectiles in the load.

reply to post by Jeremiah65


I remember about 30 years ago, my mom was talking to a Ky State Trooper we knew. She asked him, "Can I shoot them as soon as they come through the door"? He said,'Yes". She said "What if they fall outside?" His reply,"Make sure you drag'em in the house"

Honestly can't believe this is the advice we're getting from a Vice President. He seems to be trying to present a tough guy, "kill'em all and let God sort'em out" type of persona and is just ending up looking like a ignorant fool.

Originally posted by butcherguy

reply to post by DarKPenguiN

 

You people saying Shotguns are for people with "bad aim" probabl;y have never been in an actual life/death situation involving firearms.

True enough.
The shot pattern spreads relatively little when you are shooting across a room or even the length of the average house for that matter.

The trouble with shotguns in combat is that when you are shooting at a target at the outside half of the effective range (which is much shorter with a shotgun vs a rifle), you need larger shot sizes to cause damage(effective) to the target. The larger the shot size, the fewer pellets in a load.... meaning fewer pellets to hit your target. The longer the distance to the target, the more the pattern spreads.

At the distances encountered if you are using a shotgun inside the home for defense, you can use skeet loads, and you will still be punching one large hole in your attacker.

With a pistol or rifle, you can be accurate, and you know exactly what to expect if you hit the target inside the weapons effective range. With a shotgun, you are hoping that the load that you have will be effective at the distance that you end up engaging the target at, because you can't expect to achieve accurate placement of any of the number projectiles in the load.

I fully agree- But in this case we are talking about close combat (i.e. in home)- In an actual SHTF scenario I would certainly want a good Rifle with the largest capacity clip I could have.

My scenario is regarding a typical home invasion situation where more than likely the "firefight" will take place within a very short distance and probably in the dark...

Where I live now, and where most people live (in a city) a Rifle round could travel through several homes and hit whatever it will where as a Shotgun will more than likely stop within my walls. It frightens me to think if my neighbor was of the same mind and had a situation , I could have stray rounds traveling right through my bedroom.

Once the bullet leaves the gun... There is no taking it back.

-But again, if TSHTF and we had roving gangs, chaos and the like- I would be far less concerned about stray rounds and would choose a high powered rifle.

Originally posted by DAVID64
reply to post by Jeremiah65

 

I remember about 30 years ago, my mom was talking to a Ky State Trooper we knew. She asked him, "Can I shoot them as soon as they come through the door"? He said,'Yes". She said "What if they fall outside?" His reply,"Make sure you drag'em in the house"

Honestly can't believe this is the advice we're getting from a Vice President. He seems to be trying to present a tough guy, "kill'em all and let God sort'em out" type of persona and is just ending up looking like a ignorant fool.

LOL- I lived in KY (thats where my invasion happened) and YES, I have heard the same advice (not personally but my neighbors told me that)- The Law now has changed though and you can shoot them outside as well lol.

-Bidens a fool.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by Logarock

 

Oh and I do advocate for gun ownership. In fact I think it is the personal responsability for americans to be armed to exercise the 2nd if they ever need to there marine. Your s#it sounds weak and unsat.

Please...I'm squared away.

It's a right, not a mandate. I've met plenty of people who really shouldn't own a gun (my mother in law comes to mind). That is unless you advocate gun ownership for Mr. Magoo types shooting through closed doors and shooting at shadows. It's not for everyone but it is everyone's right. To each his own.

edit on 1-3-2013 by seabag because: (no reason given)

:wowude thats all I have said....to each his own. The way you keep saying it leads me to believe you would really like everybody to do it your way.

I telln you what if the crap hits the fan and you are not in ranks I will coming see where you are. Dont care about magoo or your gandma and you better not bring a shootgun.

Kind of a funny video to watch.

In Biden's mind he thinks its easier to aim and use shotguns than it is with an AR-15. And thinks a double barrel shotgun is all you need for self defense.

reply to post by Jeremiah65


I've heard that saying too....with an offer to hose off the steps should he/she fall out the door...LOL....as well as help to drag them back inside.

OP- yes this is definitely idiocy of the highest order- and this guy is our VP? I know 2 year olds with more intelligence and common sense. Sad.

reply to post by Logarock


While I'm a firm believer in the 2nd amendment, most folks don't seem to understand that with that right, comes great responsibility. The responsibility to use this tool-- yes, I said tool, of self defense and hunting, correctly, and accurately. This, in most cases, means taking your weapon down to the local gun range and learning from someone who knows, how to shoot and care for your weapon properly, as well as when and when not to use it. If you aren't willing to do even that small amount of work to ensure your own safetly, then you probably shouldn't own a gun, even if it is your right to do so. Having that right also means making that choice.

SK

A .223 has less of a chance to pass through walls. Once it hits something it starts to tumble. A shot gun will go much farther though objects...like through your front door, through the person at the front door, through your neighbor's house....

AND a .223 has very little kick and a shot gun can kick your ass...

So judgemental. Why must he be characterized as an idiot? You can disagree with the guy without being inflammatory about it. Particularly Joe Biden. Rode the same train as him for years. Other fat cat politicians get luxury condos and limo's to get to work Joe took the train every day till he was elected vice president. Nice guy, approachable. You could discuss policy with him on the train.... without the name calling. I think sometimes people feel better if they can degrade someone else and get others to chime in. Sad

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
Actually, what we have here is a great example of how little people know about how to protect themselves and their homes.

I know quite a few pro-2nd amendment folks that own guns and they would do exactly what Biden said. They would shoot first and not think about what happens next.

So this is not just a stupid comment Biden made, this is how people in general think regardless of political party.

edit on 28-2-2013 by sheepslayer247 because: grammar

I beg to differ.

Only a person with a IQ of

reply to post by Lingweenie


Great videos that just about sums up what a 12 ga. is capable of doing in the wrong hands. Just hope that some of those husbands and boyfriends weren't loading up with magnums just to be cruel...

Tell Biden to head over to Camp Perry for the national matches this year to see how women and juniors safely and accurately handle the AR platform. It's an amazing experience!!

We'll be looking for you here Joe! Educate yourself for a change before you open your blow hole...

www.odcmp.com...