General Anxiety and Panic Disorder

reply to post by XtraTL


Conspiracy theories are paranoia. Indulging in paranoid fantasies can lead directly to anxiety. That was my main point there. I know this from experience as well as from reading into the matter extensively.

As far as the doctor goes, he can make whatever choice he wants concerning drugs, etc, and what methods he should take to improve his condition. Drugs don't work well for everyone, but for some they work fine. The point is he should go to a doctor as soon as possible, as these attacks can cause physical harm and it is best to get them under control.

Also, sorry, but how is anxiety disorder not a mental disorder? It is not only classified as such by...everyone, but it is by definition a disorder of the mind, hence, "mental disorder".

It's ok to have a "mental disorder", a lot of people have one. Look it up. It doesn't mean you're cuckoo.

I've had panic attacks and enough anxiety over the years.

I agree with the person who said to remember that it will pass, because it's true.

Now I must part ways with nearly everyone and say this: I firmly believe that they don't happen for no reason. The current bubble of psychologists, doctors and sufferers continue to isolate the condition from having anything to do with anything and they try to provide drugs, coping mechanisms etc.

I think a lot of anxiety attacks that seem to come out of nowhere DO come from somewhere. And we can be free of them when we deal with that.

Example: a friend of mine's mother died. She cried a bit, went to the funeral, moved on. Over a year later, she started having HUGE anxiety attacks, couldn't sleep more than an hour a night and had no idea where this was coming from. She got so dysfunctional that two of her friends did an intervention and brought her to a doctor who told her she would need to go on anti depressants for the rest of her life. She refused and went home, continuing with anxiety, no sleep, and panic attacks.

After several weeks of this, the panic/anxiety was replaced with a deep sadness that got worse and worse. Now this is actually what happens to a lot of people with depression. Anxiety precedes their depressive episodes. So she cried, and cried, and didn't know why she felt so sad. Finally after a couple of weeks of this, she started to feel the reason why: she was finally grieving the loss of her mother. After a couple of more weeks of crying off and on, all of it disappeared and she was fine and has been ever since, and this was 10 years ago.

If she'd listened to the doctor, she would be on anti depressants right now and her life would be different, all because she was never allowed to grieve her mother.

Anxiety often precedes depression mainly because one's psyche FEELS a ton of emotion about to erupt. Heavy emotion is SCARY for a lot of us. The anxiety is one's reaction to feeling the enormity of this emotion and it's also one's attempt to stave off this emotion.

In almost all cases, we have previously refused to deal with something, refused to make a change, or to acknowledge certain emotional pain. We've disconnected from it so much, that when the psyche finally has had enough and forces us to feel it, it seems like it's come out of nowhere. But it hasn't.

These symptoms are often also associated with increased spiritual awareness, an awakening of sorts, and is again, our reaction to something enormous we feel inside of us.

If this society would not void everyone of their own responsibility towards anxiety, a lot of people would be a lot happier and not on drugs.

I am not saying anyone who takes drugs for anxiety is weak or wrong for doing so. I AM saying delve into it a little more and question the idea that it comes from "nowhere."

reply to post by jcutler12888


I had no idea, God Bless You. I have had the extreme anxiety since childhood, I was diagnosed with PTSD in Sept., 2006. My heart goes out to everyone with this crap. Sometimes I wake up having the panic attacks.

I too have had panic attacks. For anyone who has never had one they have NO idea what they are like and how horrible they can be. I have had about the same experiences as you. The feeling of being out of your body is called depersonalization. Its the single weirdest experience I have ever had. Hard to describe and put into words. The breathing helped me as well but the only thing that really got me back to feeling "Normal" was the dreaded SSRI's. Anyone who says that you should not take medication has no idea how bad they suck. The thing that surprised me was how many people in my family have had them. I have two cousins and an uncle that have had them. I formed a local support group, it helps to have someone to talk to.

Originally posted by Jukiodone
The key to getting over panic disorder or anxiety attacks is to let go of all the fear next time you have an attack.

I suffered a number of panic attacks after a trip to Thailand where I came the closest to death I'd ever been 3 times in 1 week ( A car crash, a rip tide on a deserted beach and a plane emergency landing- all in one week).

At the height of the attacks I felt completely mentally overpowered by fear.
Unable to rationalise or discuss with those around me I became caught in a random vicious circle of attacks which tended to occur when I was in situations where I knew the attack would cause issues - either social or logistical ( driving, being in a meeting with clients or being in a security line at airports were favourites).

One night, whislt sitting on the toilet, at the height of an attack fearing that I was losing my mind, I just got tired of of the attacks and concentrated on resulting effect.

It didnt seem to get worse, I didnt lose consciosness/have a heart attack and the more I concentrated on whether there were ay detrimental effects; the more the syptoms subsided.


Next attack I just laid back with my hands behind my head and thought "bring it on".
After about 5 minutes the attack ceased.

Next attack I did the same thing and it went within 2 minutes.

Now whenever I get the familiar feeling I picture myslef reclining with a smile knowing nothing is going to happen and the attack never starts.

It's been 8 years snce anything like an attack now and the key thing TLDR: allow the fear to wash over you and see what happens.. you will survive and I guarantee each attack will get better until eventually attacks cease.

OP, I highly recommend to take this advice!

I recognize your way of thinking about the strangeness of existence. I have been quite the philosopher myself all my life, and I have no doubt that this results in a higher general level of awareness. Most people don't like to think about disturbing things and they just decide not to. I was always the opposite because I was just too curious about everything. In my late twenties, I went through several years of anxiety and panic attacks. During this time, I was a commercial/fashion photographer, but I never felt like this was "me". I was very worried about where my future should go professionally, and just could not imagine staying in that profession. But since I was quite good at it, every time I talked to friends and family about my doubts, they would convince me that I would throw away my talents if I changed my line of work. So I continued for a few more years, and my anxiety and panic attacks continued and became worse. Finally, I made the decision to turn my back to photography and took the first odd job I could get. I went from one job to the next for 6 or 7 years. Now, I've been working in health care for 4 years and finally feel like I'm being myself. My income is much less than as a photographer, but my job is very secure and I have peace with what I do. I now realize that my work as a photographer did not click with me because I hate lying, and also because I can't stand superficiality. Commercial photography is basically that. Making things look better than they are. My work now gives me a sense of contributing to society instead of manipulating it for profit.

Now, more to the point of the quoted post. In my own experience, being overwhelmed by negative emotions is always accompanied with fighting them. I have learned to appreciate them and let them wash over me, allowing the energy of the emotion to dissipate. All emotions are natural and have a purpose. For example: If you are feeling fear, there is a reason, and if you ignore it, it will come back and bite you in the a** until you deal with the underlying cause of the fear (in your case, most probably financial insecurity). If you fight it, it will come out some other way, as in panic attacks, depression, or even a physical illness. You may even end up not being able to feel any emotion at all, which believe me, is even worse than a panic attack. I experienced this in the form of depersonalization, which is hell on earth.

You could try this with a less powerful emotion first, like sadness. The next time you feel sad, go lie on your bed and welcome it, completely letting it come over you. Don't fight it by trying to think of something nice. Be happy that you are able to feel sad. Try and connect as deeply as possible with the sadness and try to find out its true source (and deal with it later, if possible). Soon enough, the sadness will disappear and make room for inner peace. The peace stems from you being you, which is your only purpose in this life.

Emotions are energy and fighting them will cause an imbalance in your being.

Good luck!

soulwaxer

Originally posted by thebtheb
I've had panic attacks and enough anxiety over the years.

I agree with the person who said to remember that it will pass, because it's true.

Now I must part ways with nearly everyone and say this: I firmly believe that they don't happen for no reason. The current bubble of psychologists, doctors and sufferers continue to isolate the condition from having anything to do with anything and they try to provide drugs, coping mechanisms etc.

I think a lot of anxiety attacks that seem to come out of nowhere DO come from somewhere. And we can be free of them when we deal with that.

Example: a friend of mine's mother died. She cried a bit, went to the funeral, moved on. Over a year later, she started having HUGE anxiety attacks, couldn't sleep more than an hour a night and had no idea where this was coming from. She got so dysfunctional that two of her friends did an intervention and brought her to a doctor who told her she would need to go on anti depressants for the rest of her life. She refused and went home, continuing with anxiety, no sleep, and panic attacks.

After several weeks of this, the panic/anxiety was replaced with a deep sadness that got worse and worse. Now this is actually what happens to a lot of people with depression. Anxiety precedes their depressive episodes. So she cried, and cried, and didn't know why she felt so sad. Finally after a couple of weeks of this, she started to feel the reason why: she was finally grieving the loss of her mother. After a couple of more weeks of crying off and on, all of it disappeared and she was fine and has been ever since, and this was 10 years ago.

If she'd listened to the doctor, she would be on anti depressants right now and her life would be different, all because she was never allowed to grieve her mother.

Anxiety often precedes depression mainly because one's psyche FEELS a ton of emotion about to erupt. Heavy emotion is SCARY for a lot of us. The anxiety is one's reaction to feeling the enormity of this emotion and it's also one's attempt to stave off this emotion.

In almost all cases, we have previously refused to deal with something, refused to make a change, or to acknowledge certain emotional pain. We've disconnected from it so much, that when the psyche finally has had enough and forces us to feel it, it seems like it's come out of nowhere. But it hasn't.

These symptoms are often also associated with increased spiritual awareness, an awakening of sorts, and is again, our reaction to something enormous we feel inside of us.

If this society would not void everyone of their own responsibility towards anxiety, a lot of people would be a lot happier and not on drugs.

I am not saying anyone who takes drugs for anxiety is weak or wrong for doing so. I AM saying delve into it a little more and question the idea that it comes from "nowhere."

Your friends case does not apply across the board, anxiety does not always come from somewhere. Some people get depressed for no reason and some people get anxious for no reason. The doctor she went to must have been an idiot because the first thing I thought after I read that she lost her mother was that the anxiety was probably related to that. Some people can be made anxious or depressed by life circumstances but its not chronic. The treatment can be short term medication, therapy, or something else that takes care of the problem for good. Others have a chronic condition that requires treatment over the lifespan.

reply to post by Erich94



Hi Erich,
greetings from germany..even if it is hard for me to talk in english i will try my best because what you experience is really well known to me..

First: drop the name "panic disorder"...

what you experience as fear is nothing else than a reaction to a kind of depersonalization/dissociation.

Second: you are lucky. Because our openness about different philosophies makes it easy for you to integrate what you are experiencing.

I would give your "condition" the name: "integration disorder"....you experienced a shift in your consciousness and your beliefsystem can not really handle that...for the body-mind complex this shift feels like a "nearing death"...so it starts to react to the tension with fear.

I know what you are going through. 10 years ago it started for me similar and the only way to integrate this shift in how you perceive "yourself" is to restructure your beliefsystem about "who you think you are"... You are FAR MORE than your body-mind system.And this shift in consciousness showed you that you are capable of dissociationg with that system without losing the ability to perceive that body.
This is a big shock for the body-mind complex (e.g EGO)...what really will help you is to meditate on the question. "WHAT AM I"...and to losen the grip...
what you have is not a "Panic disorder"..this term really does not help at all.. It is only there to give you the feeling that you are sick.
But you are not: you begin to awaken to your true reality...

Thats what you experienced that day...a kind of awakening..but your mind could not handle that..

..In a way the dream (but it is not really a dream..it is a dimensional experience) about "the 2 dimensional" line is a metaphor for that....because now you experience that what you are has space for every kind of experience.

Before i get into this more i want to ask you if you ever heard of "satsang", "Advaita" or stuff like that?

In the satsang scene there are many people who have the same experiences as you have.

"Mooji" is a great teacher..there are many videos on youtube.. The next time you have this "panic" attack..dont be afraid of the fear....let it grow as big as it can...and get into it..behind this fear is your liberation.
Trust me!

btw..i found it really fascinating what you said about your experience with that 2nd dimensional line...

it reminded me of what bashar said about the "god particle"...in a way you remember a real experience you had in which you "crossed your "other you"..and could not integrate it.

Its all about integration.
What you are is always bigger than what you perceive so the integration never stops...

Be water my friend

one last thing: the most important thing for you to do now is TO LET GO of the fear of the fear..allow yourself to be afraid.
Without that step you will have a LONG LONG painfull ride. Trust me..
Dont do the mistake i made believing that i had a "panic disorder" which should be treated with meds..this will only perpetuate the fear of the fear.

Being a sufferer myself, I have often thought that it may be rational response to the current state of the world.
What ever you do, don't get into the habit of using benzos. After going through years of hell,I have found that Mirtazapine, and low doses of Seroquel have kept my symptoms at bay. Although I am not promoting using meds, sometimes it is the only thing to do.

reply to post by kauskau


WOW!!! You got that down to a tee.

I want to thank you for wording it in a way that I could only dream of.

Read that post over and over again, OP. And indeed, trust him! And of course, above all, trust yourself. Soon enough, you will see how much you have grown and wonder who that guy was that you thought was you. This can actually happen very fast. You just need to see it for what it is and integrate it.

About your "dreams" of the 2-d line when you were 6 years old: When I was around the same age, I had a recurring dream that was VERY much like yours, but mine involved a huge 3-d sphere (like a planet). I found myself in black space, moving towards this gray sphere, and all the while, there was a sort of deep droning noise. When I got so close to it that I could no longer see its circumference, I went into total dread mode... This feeling was nothing like anything I have ever felt before and since, and I am absolutely positive that I experienced something real, but on another plane of existence. I had that dream at least 20 times in a period of about 2 months.

ETA: Later on, in my early twenties, I was reading Carl Jung, and he actually talks about these types of dreams. He explained them as "an integration of your personality" or something like that. The book is his autobiography "Memories, Dreams, Reflections". If you haven't read it, I advise you to do so because many concepts will be very familiar to you.

soulwaxer

My panic attacks always revolved around this notion I had in my head that I was dying/having a heart attack etc. the first thing I did to get rid of them was acknowledge it was anxiety and nothing else, second when I had an attack I would try and distract myself by playing guitar or reading a book. It wouldn't work instantly and I could rarely focus but it did distract me. Don't really have the big attacks now, if I dothey are fleeting. I do suffer mild day to day anxiety (over thinking day to day situations resulting in serious nervousness and social avoidance but that is something I am working on, unfortunately not really getting anywhere.

I have had similar problems. It started with "toe tapping" I simply could not control my toes. Then the surreal disconnect from myself, with panic and fear. I got to the point that I would not drive anywhere alone.
I overcame the fear. "Nothing to fear, but fear itself". But, for me it is a neurologic problem. The toe tapping has turned into a burning in the ball of my feet. If numb and tingling down your legs or burning in your feet become a part of this, then you might need to have your spine examined for stenosis which is a narrowing around the spinal cord.
I am not negating your spiritual awaking in all this. Believe me it exercised all my "faith" to believe that everything is OK when everything inside says nothing is OK. You start to ask yourself weird questions like, did something steal my body? I felt like I was loosing myself.
I too am a deeply spiritual person, and I acknowledge a transition that takes place. Because I have experienced it. And that may very well be what you are experiencing, but if other symptoms present themselves as I mentioned above, look for a physical problem.
If you were laying on the bed with your neck or low back in a weird position that pinched your cord, it can result in some of these "symptoms".

Check this out and see if my anxiety and fear plus the results can be connected to anything about you.

Like "Are your toes still moving up and down without your doing it?"

www.abovetopsecret.com...

What the original poster is describing sounds like something either in the environment or in his interpersonal situation driving him OUT OF BODY into a disassociative state; I wouldn't call that a panic attack, I would call that severe psychic attack.

As secondhand guessers it can be hard identifying what Erich might be going through; Erich, you might want to learn how to clear negative energy and/or disruptive electromagnetic energy from the environments you move through. This can help a great deal. Maybe you and your mum are very sensitive to energy disturbances.

SNIP

Yesterday, I came across your thread and didn't know how quite to take it in. Somehow you managed to put an esoteric spin on the process. I've never thought of it in those terms before. "Outside of the body". That got me the most. I've never experienced that. I'm a 100% disabled veteran with huge anxiety and panic disorder.

I would not wish it upon anyone. Yet somehow you managed very well with the exception of an ER visit.

Like you, I can't identify why I have these attacks. I'm stuck on med's that I don't like. Buspirone didn't work for me at all. In fact, it exacerbated my anxiety. No SSRI's for me at all.

I wish you all the best and hope you find the answers you need. Again, I would not wish this on my worst enemy. Feeling imminent death is not something anyone should have to go through.

You have my regards and my best wishes. Hope you get better. BTW....benzodiazepines are the only thing that work for me. I take them with such responsibility that I am not worried about addiction. I'm very frugal with them.

reply to post by SinMaker


More power to you, I am also disabled. Most people act like that cant tell because I can walk but it does hurt. People are to fast to judge others. I had to park in handicap parking one time a day or two after one of my surgeries, just because I may look younger or in shape, nobody but me and my family and doctor know the pain on the inside Ive had 4 major surgeries since my birthday in 2006 and more of the others somehow got scheduled on my birthday. I thought, WTF, but then I realized I could have picked another day if I had realized April 14th was my day.
My L4, L5 fusion had separated last year somehow in a fall so of course my doctor needs to fix it but I am not ready for that again. I have enough titanium in my spine that when I walk I feel like I have electricity coming out of my finger tips! It is so weird because the static electricity the other night when I took my shirt off flashed light in the room. With all due respect to you, did your disability really change your thinking because I am not the same. I even can't feel comfortable with my new therapist. My old one left the county and is to far to go see.

reply to post by chisisiCoptos


Thank you. God bless you as well. I've had anxiety since childhood well (for reasons previously posted) and I was diagnosed with PTSD a few years ago. I know what you mean, my heart goes out to everyone with these issues too...I wouldn't wish them on my worst enemy. I wake up having panic attacks too, and quite often...I'll have flashback dreams and wake up in total night-terror mode. It's so awful...

reply to post by jcutler12888


I really hate if something simply, just barley wakes me up, then comes the thinking part. I start getting really upset and then sleep is out of the question. I guess that is what medicine is for. I have figured out one thing over the years about what I try to do at these times. Feel the great love God has for you and he surrounds you with a sort of bubble of protection. Love is more powerful than anything else. I mean having love and compassion is what makes this world go around. I have always had a sort of sinister way of "fighting" my enemy's with kindness and love.
I look back on people that hurt me or whatever and I have no hate anymore. They may have hurt me or even made me cry for a day but in the end me just being a good person and caring person will never change. I used to cry and ask my mom and dad why did this person do that to me. They said to protect myself but never change. I guess I am weird but I have always had a thing for the homeless people. When I worked downtown as a paralegal I used to bring my old suits and ties, shoes, socks and dress shirts with me to pass out. Even after time passed if I did not have any money or only $10, I would and still do donate whatever I can to a homeless shelter here in Knoxville. Even $5 can provide a couple of hot meals.

It's interesting that I am reading this now as I have been going through something similar that the last 2 months or so. I wasn't having the panic attack's that you were describing but the stress and anxiety became unbearable, having no job, not going to school or any kind of social life will do this to a person I guess. I did nothing basically for the last 2 and a half years of my life until I finally decided to make some changes in my life. I registered for school, started exercising, kicked my weed habit (smoked everyday, multiple times a day for 3-4 years) which was a great way to cope with all this stress, until it eventually became a cause of the stress. I've started seeing a therapist which has definitely helped, having sometime to talk to can be helpful (especially for people who like to keep things to themselves). For years I boxed myself into my own little world and just kinda let the year pass which I regret deeply.

To you I say just try and take some positive steps in improving your life (you know what they are), they might not be the same things that I had to do but there is definitely something that is weighing on your mind that is causing the anxiety. If you don't address it, things will just continue to get worse. Best of luck bro.