Unmasking The United Nations: Tool of American Terror

Has the United States embarked on another Holocaust?

This is quoted from another thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by ipsedixit
I have a conspiracy theory that is seldom if ever talked about.

The theory is that the UN sanctions which followed the first Gulf War and which went on for ten years, at the insistance of the United States and despite studies that had concluded that they should be terminated after only a year or so, because the havoc they were inflicting was near catastrophic at that point, were actually planned as an offensive weapon of war to kill as many Iraqis as possible and maintained as a result of pressure brought to bear on the United Nations by the United States of America, the genocidal perpetrator in the case.

If this was done it was the brilliant use of an international institution usually seen as an encumbrance by one of the most innovative, amoral and aggressively warlike nations since Nazi Germany.

I wish a whistleblower would leak the position papers from the State Department on this issue. Maybe Hillary Clinton (Lady Ha Ha) will be indiscrete someday.

The United Nations killed 50,000 children a year for ten years in Iraq, by means of sanctions imposed at the request of the United States, which were kept in place at the insistence of the United States, despite a study, done after one year, which recommended cessation of the sanctions because the effect they were having was catastrophic.

American thinking at the time, purportedly, was that sanctions would encourage the Iraqis to overthrow Saddam.

That is how the Nazis would have handled the problem.

You want to get rid of a nation's government? The way to do it is to start killing their children. Kill enough of their children and the people will make common cause with you against their own despised leader.

That's the theory. That's the kind of thinking that gave the Third Reich its longevity.

Now it's being done to the Iranians:



This kind of crap has to stop. People are starting to dislike Americans. They don't think Americans are nice people any more.

They don't think the UN is much of anything any more.

Well, Moscow never disappoints for making the U.S. look absolutely horrid on any topic. Given that RT is a direct property of the Russian Government, I'd say that is a fitting description of this.

Now onto the main topic..... Well, I don't really believe sanctions accomplish much myself. Look at Cuba. REAL success there, eh? At the same time...this claim of killing thousands, let alone 10's of thousands (and it's ALWAYS children..right? Never grown men or women....just kids dying from sanctions it seems) is outright absurd.

First, if one reads the sanctioned material during the Iraq years, the current Iran list and that of other nations where sanctions apply for whatever reasons, basic food items and basic medical (Humanitarian Categories) are rarely, if EVER included in blockading shipments. Controlling them for inspection? Perhaps....and likely in some cases. Blocking the basics of humanitarian aid? Yeah... right. Doesn't happen.

If that DID happen, there are more than a couple nations in the world who would make world wide spectacles of the show where they could PROVE American actions were the direct cause to the deaths of Children. Knowing how touchy that is among Americans and our society, it would have and still would BE played like a grand piano for all the propaganda it was worth.


What happens far more often is that the materials which ARE allowed into a nation under sanctions are diverted by the regime being sanctioned and either hoarded by those in favor by the regime in question ..or peddled off to the citizens in black market selling (as DID happen in Iraq and elsewhere). If blame is even the right word, there is plenty of it to share with those BEING sanctioned as well as those leveling the penalties, IMO.

As an American , i am sick and tired of the " blame it on the Americans " crap , put the blame where the blame is due US leader ship, house senate, POUTS! not on the American people!, now that i have said that , yes it is bad , but what to do??? Nuke Iran or Sanction them ?? or just for once use some common sense and tell the world, We ARE NO LONGER YOUR POLICE FORCE, DEAL WITH IT YOUR SELF, wish the politicians would see that, but that would be to easy. Kerry would be out job and we can not have that he just started. Back to Iran , Well if Iran did not spend all the oil money, on nukes , oh yea the sanctions are not working they getting oil out to sell for their nuke program but they do not want the world to know this , but we do openchannel.nbcnews.com... ?chromedomain=usnews form the link

LONDON - Iran is using old tankers, saved from the scrapyard by foreign middlemen, to ship out oil to China in ways that avoid Western sanctions, say officials involved with sanctions who showed Reuters corroborating documents.

The officials, from states involved in imposing sanctions to pressure Iran to curb its nuclear program, said the tankers - worth little more than scrap value - were a new way for Iran to keep its oil exports flowing by exploiting the legal limitations on Western powers' ability to make sanctions stick worldwide.

Officials showed Reuters shipping documents to support their allegation that eight ships, each of which can carry close to a day's worth of Iran's pre-sanctions exports, have loaded Iranian oil at sea. Publicly available tracking and other data are consistent with those documents and allegations.

so the next time get your facts it s just not the US, it is also they Iran to blame as well as the UN for it is a do nothing but SWAK and wine ,or is whine about this and that , next up DPRK, should we, should we not... nuke it before it nukes US us

reply to post by ipsedixit


No, the US has never been involved in a holocaust.

Nobody ever supports handling tyrants with force. When US or UN go to war, we’re vilified. When we choose economic sanctions in lieu of war, we’re vilified. When we do absolutely nothing….YEP, we’re vilified.

The US can’t win no matter which route we take. As an American, I’m to the point where I’d like to save all of our precious resources and just let the ME burn; Let them kill each other off. The world is full of ungrateful, evil, complaining bastards and I’m done listening to it.

Let them ALL fend for themselves! Don't call us!!

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

There is no doubt this happened. Just Google it. There are numerous reputable reports of what went on in Iraq as a result of the sanctions. The initial reporting on the original study of the sanctions was in the New York Times. That was the study that recommended the lifting of the sanctions a year or so after the end of the first Gulf War on the grounds that they were already having devastating effects.

Sanctions of this kind have almost no effects on the elite of the target country. What such sanctions do achieve is the hardening of ill will in the target country against those who are inflicting their suffering upon them.

Isn't it time for the elite in the United States to become a little more reasonable with ruling elites of other countries, with whom they don't agree. The American elite should stop lying to their own people and stop their military aggression around the world and start to make reasonable business deals with the powers in place around the world.

No more fake posturing on rights, etc. The US should begin to lead by example. Be honest as much as possible. Be fair. Don't go for the financial killing at all costs. Don't steal people's resources. Don't start killing their children and their sick and elderly, while you pretend to be working for the common good.

If we all started shooting the messenger (RT) every time a message arrived that we didn't like, the world would be completely polarized in no time and we would be right back to the Cold War.

If the United States were a kid in school, it would be the rich kid, bullying others, surrounded by a collection of brown nosing sycophants and "gofers", interested only in its own personal profit and pleasure and giving a damn about nobody.

That is the way America is perceived today in much of the world. That is something Americans can do something about.

reply to post by ipsedixit


Like Seabag pointed out, we're damned if we do and we're damned if we don't. We went to war, to some level, in places like Panama, Kosovo/Serbia, Iraq and others. We were and are condemned by Russia and others. We were at the time, as I recall reading the reports as these things happened, and we're condemned for it now. Outcomes aren't perfect? We're condemned twice as hard.

If we don't go to war and sanction? Well, now we're evil bastards out to murder children and as others have pointed out..I'm about sick of the America bashing on rumor, innuendo, half cited facts and pure MEDIA report. The New York Times is MSM. Why is it the MSM is NOW a valid source to cite for base factual information but on almost anything else, MSM is the root of all deception? Rather selective there, aren't we?

Remember Rwanda? Sudan? Chad? If we DO NOT go in or sanction, we're blamed even harder and with more venom than when we DO.


If you have links to actual studies, actual reports or actual eye witness testimony on this...I'm quite interested. After all, I don't need to read about the sanctions or the reaction to them by some in the world...I LIVED it. I recall these things as front page stories I read at the time it was happening...or claimed to be happening anyway. It's not history for all of us here...It's current events in our personal pasts. (The presentation as if we'd know nothing without having it spoon fed by media gets old sometimes.)

The fact of the matter is that Saddam Hussein HAD all the options he could ever want or need to feed his people by selling oil allowed for the purpose. The fact he and members of the UN warped and bastardized that program for their own profit and benefit at the direct expense of the Iraqi people isn't the U.S.'s fault OR problem. Look to the UN and the man we helped see executed for that one.

It disgusts me how the western and other governments have be made unaccountable for these mass genocides

The other point that people need to take on board is, during these genocidal sanctions brought in and enforced by America for ten years, during those ten years America together with the UN's military wing NATO were carrying out the longest aerial bombardment campaign ever conducted.

Not only were we strangling them economicaly with murderous sanctions we took a few hours out of every day for ten years to bomb civilian infrastructure power stations, bridges, highways hospitals etc to fully ensure when we did invade, there would be no resistance on the ground, which there wasnt, America had plans of invading Iraq a LONG LONG time before the twin towers were brought down.

Oh what a great victory for humanity and progress Iraq has been, one of the single most premeditated acts of murder and destruction against another people ever seen since world war II.

I hope every supporter of the Iraq invasion is very pleased with what they must certainly feel is a step in the right direction for humanity. Well done to you all, model citizens of a very humanitarian world, each and every one of you.

reply to post by Tuttle

Not only were we strangling them economicaly with murderous sanctions we took a few hours out of every day for ten years to bomb civilian infrastructure power stations, bridges, highways hospitals etc to fully ensure when we did invade, there would be no resistance on the ground, which there wasnt, America had plans of invading Iraq a LONG LONG time before the twin towers were brought down.

Ummm... WHAT?!

I was alive, well and a full grown adult over the 10 years in question...and I missed this daily bombing campaign. Clinton hit their Anti-Air network a couple times when Saddam got a terminal case of the stupids and lit up coalition aircraft with targeting radars, but little more than that happened over those 10 years.

I'm sorry, but you're just describing events that literally didn't happen. Never did happen. I'd welcome any PROOF to the contrary ...but you are clearly making this the 10 years PRIOR to invasion by how you say it 'fully insured no resistance' when we did? (By the way... No resistance? What war were YOU watching?!)

It's rare that I see claims on here that are so totally out of left field as to be unrecognizable to real world events of the time...but this is absolutely one example. The United States and NATO ABSOLUTELY WERE NOT bombing Iraq or anyone else for that matter, every day, for 10 years straight PRIOR to the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

Only 50,000? They got off easy. America has killed over 14 million children just in America since 1974. We are on track to double that.

Originally posted by jimmiec
Only 50,000? They got off easy. America has killed over 14 million children just in America since 1974. We are on track to double that.

FACEPALM!

Are you being serious? Is there any country in this world that passes your litmus test? People always like to point to perceived injustices but fail to point out the good.

I swear, sometimes I feel like I'm living in the twilight zone. I don't understand how 2 people can look at the same scenario and see things so differently.

Edit to add - I hope you're making a jab at abortion, otherwise I'm lost!
You must be because we normally agree on many things.

Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by jimmiec
Only 50,000? They got off easy. America has killed over 14 million children just in America since 1974. We are on track to double that.

FACEPALM!

Are you being serious? Is there any country in this world that passes your litmus test? People always like to point to perceived injustices but fail to point out the good.

I swear, sometimes I feel like I'm living in the twilight zone. I don't understand how 2 people can look at the same scenario and see things so differently.

I think I can help a bit there.....

One person looks at an event or scene and examines what is there to determine what they are really seeing.

Another person looks at the same event or scene with an agenda in one hand and uses the other to craft the scene into how it should look, rather than how it actually does.

Same event....radically different descriptions. Kinda makes ya wonder sometimes, doesn't it?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

Another person looks at the same event or scene with an agenda in one hand and uses the other to craft the scene into how it should look, rather than how it actually does.

Sometimes on ATS it’s just hard to tell the context of the comments (which is likely the case with my response to jimmiec) but I know what you’re saying.

No offense to anyone, especially my wife, but sometimes on ATS I feel like I’m arguing with my wife (the whole Mars/Venus thing). Sometimes it’s not that people are crafting things, it’s simply that they have such a skewed way of thinking they actually perceive things in the exact opposite way I do.

It’s frustrating to debate people when things that are FACT, and should be stipulated as such, are still on the table for debate.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


By 1999, the American DOD had flown over 200,000 sorties over Iraq as part of the ironicaly entitled no-fly zones imposed on Iraq. In 1991 America dropped 177 million pounds of bombs on the people of Iraq in the most concentrated aerial onslaught in the history of the world.

"As I have told the House on many occasions," said Hain [Foreign Office minister Peter Hain of the Labour Party in UK] on 2 May, "we are not conducting a bombing campaign against Iraq . . ." The Royal Air Force, together with the US, bombs Iraq almost every day. Since December 1998, the Ministry of Defence has admitted dropping 780 tonnes of bombs on a country with which Britain is not at war. During the same period, the United States has conducted 24,000 combat missions over southern Iraq alone, mostly in populated areas. In one five-month period, 41 per cent of casualties were civilians: farmers, fishermen, shepherds, their children and their sheep - the circumstances of their killing were documented by the United Nations Security Sector. Now consider Hain's statement that no bombing campaign exists. In truth, it is the longest such campaign since the Second World War."

John Pilger, Labour (UK's political party in power) claims its actions are lawful while it bombs Iraq, starves its people and sells arms to corrupt states, John Pilger, 7 Aug 2000.

"the Pentagon says more than 280,000 sorties have been flown in the near decade since no-flight zones were imposed on Saddam in the north and south of the country."

Jonathan Power, July 2000, Why Is the West Still Bombing Iraq?

Im not sure what being alive and well at any point during events that take place really matters, theres plenty thats happened in my lifetime I know very little about. Im sorry to burst your bubble, but chances are you are probably not some all seeing oracle of world events and should probably educate yourself more about the topic at hand.

There also seems to have been a trend, both in the news and the shiny men in suits who appear on TV that basicaly denied any and all such bombing campaigns ever going on. It would appear to me anyway that you not only listened to such things, but also believed them.

You should not do that.

The shiny people in shiny suits, not celebrities, the other ones we see in the newspaper all the time?, anyway whoever they are I have gathered that they tell lies, and lots of them. You should not listen to them.

reply to post by Tuttle

Okay, now you are being accurate. There is a WORLD OF DIFFERENCE in your two messages.

In the first one, you clearly say it was a 10 year bombing campaign. In fact, you say they took hours out of EACH AND EVERY DAY to bomb civilian infrastructure, including hospitals.

Well..... That's baseless propaganda without factual support and I've never seen or heard factual basis to even make the claim in passing.


Now in this message you differentiate the 1991 WAR...with the following decade of sanctions. The no-fly zone was connected but NOT directly related to the sanctions. If you were around to watch the 1991 war, as many of us were here, you would recall Saddam Hussien using helicopter gunships to decimate the Shiites and "Swamp Arabs" in Southern Iraq after the truce was called between American and Iraqi military leaders.

That slaughter of innocent people is where Bush and the Coalition command determined Saddam couldn't be trusted with free reign to fly armed aircraft around as he pleased. He tended to kill people with them on a whim.

..and so a decade of No-Fly zone was enforced for the protection of both the Shia in the South and the Kurds in the north (recall those people Saddam Hussein used chemical weapons on?).

It was your effort to blur the 1991 war and the combat operations it carried with the NON-combat enforcement of the No-Fly zone later I found repulsive in terms of historic accuracy at any level. Knowing history is critically important, in my view. Knowing ACCURATE history can be very important, depending on the circumstance we find ourselves in during our lives.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

I was alive, well and a full grown adult over the 10 years in question...and I missed this daily bombing campaign. Clinton hit their Anti-Air network a couple times when Saddam got a terminal case of the stupids and lit up coalition aircraft with targeting radars, but little more than that happened over those 10 years.

NON-combat enforcement of the No-Fly zone later I found repulsive in terms of historic accuracy at any level. Knowing history is critically important, in my view. Knowing ACCURATE history can be very important, depending on the circumstance we find ourselves in during our lives.

Based upon the facts at hands as they were presented to you, there seems to be a great deal of inaccuracy with regards to your statements.

reply to post by seabag


Yes, abortion.

Iran is not in that bad of shape, for not only are they selling oil it seem they just made deal with Pakistan, www.presstv.ir... from the link

Ahmadinejad made the remarks in a meeting with the visiting Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari in the Iranian capital city, Tehran, on Wednesday.

“Even if we were not neighbors and religious brothers, we should stand together, because relations and cooperation are better than confrontation and ill-wishers always exploit the divide between nations,” he added.


The Iranian president went on to say that if Tehran and Islamabad consolidate their capacities, they can overcome all obstacles and animosities and accelerate their progress.

Referring to the multi-billion-dollar Iran-Pakistan (IP) gas pipeline project, Ahmadinejad said the construction of this pipeline would benefit both countries as well as other regional states. - See more at: www.presstv.ir...

Iran would no longer need to seek the nuke they could buy it or make a trade for it "gas you want gas? give us a nuke, well give you gas" So the next time i here their starving or needing this or that tell your Iran Pres sell the gas for it! Sanctions are just a joke they do not work , want real sanctions , ban all imports exports, any nation that does not abide by it , they get the same , to bad the UN would cease to exists, for every nation would be embargoed, er sanctioned. Could the US pull it off ?Does it have enough ships? Would the price of domestic gas reach $10.00 a gallon?
NA never happen!!!! The world needs the US to pick, as well as the UN to do nothing.

reply to post by Tuttle

Well, rather than make vague and general accusations that I'm mistaken or misleading...Please, take the moment to support that with examples you find inaccurate in what I've said. I have to run to class for several hours, but I'll be back tonight and will be happy to reply, with sourced supporting material and/or imagery where appropriate on a point by point basis.

I'm really a stickler about accurate history and far more so when it's history I was alive to watch happen and made a point of being as informed as a member of the public could be. I'll eagerly check back when I get back.

(By the way... If the use of chemical weapons on the Kurds is any issue, please say so. My geography class is taught by a literal expert in Middle Eastern affairs and someone who has had extensive dealings with the investigation of that atrocity, specifically...I can get some very extensive material for support on that one. )

I wonder, under the current thinking in the United States, how many Iranian deaths by sanction would be considered acceptable?

I wonder if the Iranian government has informed the Iranian people that shortages are the result of an attempt by the United States to economically strangle Iran in order to force "regime change".

I wonder how the Iranians would respond to that.

Isn't strangulation of the elderly and the sick a crime in the United States? I'm not sure about the case of Nazi Germany. I'm sure it would be fine to strangle some of the sick and the elderly there. In Nazi Germany certain categories of the sick and the elderly could be dispatched relatively easily.

What is the current thinking in the United States? Is it alright to strangle Iranian sick and elderly people in order to force "regime change" in Iran. Wasn't the Iranian government elected in an internationally observed election that was judged "fair", as such things go?

We know that the United States has forced "regime change" in Iran in the past. There was a problem about the oil export business. The Iranian government was fighting with its business partners over the price it was getting for oil.

Most people would say that if one were fighting with the manager of a store over the prices, that organizing a boycott of the store in order to remove the manager and put one's friend in as the new manager in order to lower prices in the store, might be going a little too far, particularly if one started issuing threats to people in order to get them to go along with the boycott.

That kind of thing has a whiff of "racketeering" about it. Is America a racketeer nation?

There are a lot of stores that I can't shop in because the prices are too high. I shop elsewhere.

The American government doesn't believe that Iran should have a nuclear weapon and doesn't believe Iran should have the ability to make a nuclear weapon. It has neither but even if Iran had never heard of nuclear fission, America would still want regime change.

The nuclear issue has been a "red herring" for a long time but by means of its aggression the Americans are starting to turn the "red herring" into a "salty, silver herring". North Korea, a regime one hundred times further away from the American ideal than Iran, has proved the utility of a nuclear arsenal. Like a couple of the nuclear powers, one in particular, North Korea has proven that nuclear weapons are a great way to get undeserved "respect".

By the way, I know that the American people are not responsible for all of this. The American people are like the Syrians or the Iranians. They don't really have a voice in government. This thread is a good example of that. Even people who disagree with my assessment of American policy would prefer that America had a different foreign policy or even no foreign policy at all, but that is not going to happen my friends.

The same folks who would like to disarm Iran, would like to disarm you.