John, Mary and Jesus in the Qur'an. Surah Maryam

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posted on Feb, 27 2013 @ 07:10 AM
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The story about them from an islamic perspective.
Here are the 1st 36 ayat(verses/signs)

19. Surah Maryam (Mary)
1. Kaf- Ha-Ya-'Ain-Sad. [These letters are one of the
miracles of the Qur'an, and none
but Allah (Alone) knows their
meanings].
2. (This is) a mention of the mercy of your Lord to His slave
Zakariya (Zachariah).
3. When he called out his Lord (Allah) a call in secret, 4. Saying: "My Lord! Indeed my bones have grown feeble, and
grey hair has spread on my
head, And I have never been
unblest in my invocation to You,
O my Lord!
5. "And Verily! I fear my relatives after me, since my wife is barren.
So give me from Yourself an heir,
6. "Who shall inherit me, and inherit (also) the posterity of
Ya'qub (Jacob) (inheritance of
the religious knowledge and
Prophethood, not the wealth,
etc.). And make him, my Lord,
one with whom You are Well- pleased!".
7. (Allah said) "O Zakariya (Zachariah)! Verily, We give you
the glad tidings of a son, His
name will be Yahya (John). We
have given that name to none
before (him)."
8. He said: "My Lord! How can I have a son, when my wife is
barren, and I have reached the
extreme old age."
9. He said: "So (it will be). Your Lord says; It is easy for Me.
Certainly I have created you
before, when you had been
nothing!"
10. [Zakariya (Zachariah)] said: "My Lord! Appoint for me a
sign." He said: "Your sign is that
you shall not speak unto
mankind for three nights,
though having no bodily
defect."
11. Then he came out to his people from Al-Mihrab (a
praying place or a private room,
etc.), he told them by signs to
glorify Allah's Praises in the
morning and in the afternoon.
12. (It was said to his son): "O Yahya (John)! Hold fast the
Scripture [the Taurat (Torah)]."
And We gave him wisdom while
yet a child.
13. And (made him) sympathetic to men as a mercy (or a grant)
from Us, and pure from sins [i.e.
Yahya (John)] and he was
righteous,
14. And dutiful towards his parents, and he was neither an
arrogant nor disobedient (to
Allah or to his parents).
15. And Salamun (peace) be on him the day he was born, the
day he dies, and the day he will
be raised up to life (again)!
16. And mention in the Book (the Qur'an, O Muhammad , the story of) Maryam (Mary),
when she withdrew in seclusion
from her family to a place facing
east.
17. She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then
We sent to her Our Ruh [angel
Jibrael (Gabriel)], and he
appeared before her in the form
of a man in all respects.
18. She said: "Verily! I seek refuge with the Most Beneficent
(Allah) from you, if you do fear
Allah."
19. (The angel) said: "I am only a Messenger from your Lord, (to
announce) to you the gift of a
righteous son."
20. She said: "How can I have a son, when no man has touched
me, nor am I unchaste?"
21. He said: "So (it will be), your Lord said: 'That is easy for Me
(Allah): And (We wish) to
appoint him as a sign to
mankind and a mercy from Us
(Allah), and it is a matter
(already) decreed, (by Allah).' "
22. So she conceived him, and she withdrew with him to a far
place (i.e. Bethlehem valley
about 4-6 miles from Jerusalem).
23. And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a date-
palm. She said: "Would that I had
died before this, and had been
forgotten and out of sight!"
24. Then [the babe 'Iesa (Jesus) or Jibrael (Gabriel)] cried unto
her from below her, saying:
"Grieve not! Your Lord has
provided a water stream under
you;
25. "And shake the trunk of date-palm towards you, it will let
fall fresh ripe-dates upon you."
26. "So eat and drink and be glad, and if you see any human
being, say: 'Verily! I have vowed
a fast unto the Most Beneficent
(Allah) so I shall not speak to
any human being this day.'"
27. Then she brought him (the baby) to her people, carrying
him. They said: "O Mary! Indeed
you have brought a thing Fariya
(an unheard mighty thing).
28. "O sister (i.e. the like) of Harun (Aaron) [not the brother
of Musa (Moses), but he was
another pious man at the time of
Maryam (Mary)]! Your father was
not a man who used to commit
adultery, nor your mother was an unchaste woman."
29. Then she pointed to him. They said: "How can we talk to
one who is a child in the cradle?"
30. "He ['Iesa (Jesus)] said: Verily! I am a slave of Allah, He
has given me the Scripture and
made me a Prophet;"
31. "And He has made me blessed wheresoever I be, and
has enjoined on me Salat
(prayer), and Zakat(charity), as long as I
live."
32. "And dutiful to my mother, and made me not arrogant,
unblest.
33. "And Salam (peace) be upon me the day I was born, and the
day I die, and the day I shall be
raised alive!"
34. Such is 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary). (it is) a statement
of truth, about which they doubt
(or dispute).
35. It befits not (the Majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son
. Glorified (and
Exalted be He above all that they associate with Him). When He
decrees a thing, He only says to
it, "Be!" and it is.
36. ['Iesa (Jesus) said]: "And verily Allah is my Lord and your
Lord. So worship Him (Alone).
That is the Straight Path. (Allah's
Religion of Islamic Monotheism
which He did ordain for all of His
Prophets)."


Listen to it if you can, Qur'an is meant to be listened. Its an oral message.




posted on Feb, 27 2013 @ 08:32 AM
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Good post.
Now be prepared for a flood of "Jesus of the Koran is not the Jesus of the Bible" arguments.
edit on 27-2-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2013 @ 08:32 AM
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double please delete.
edit on 27-2-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2013 @ 08:45 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
be prepared for a flood of "Jesus of the Koran is not the Jesus of the Bible" arguments.

Here you go ... Jesus of the Koran is not the Jesus of the Bible.

The Qu'ran was made up 600+ years after Jesus walked the earth.
The bible was written by those who knew Jesus and who studied under those who knew him.
The Qu'ran waters down the divinity of Christ .. all to make room for the human invention of Islam.
The bible is a first hand historical account of the life of Jesus.
The Qu'ran, made up 600+ years later, contradicts the historical facts of Jesus in the bible.

You muslims know all this already. You've been told these facts many times.
Guess that doesn't stop the Qu'ran thumping though ...
... too bad.



posted on Feb, 27 2013 @ 10:23 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
be prepared for a flood of "Jesus of the Koran is not the Jesus of the Bible" arguments.

Here you go ... Jesus of the Koran is not the Jesus of the Bible.

The Qu'ran was made up 600+ years after Jesus walked the earth.
The bible was written by those who knew Jesus and who studied under those who knew him.
The Qu'ran waters down the divinity of Christ .. all to make room for the human invention of Islam.
The bible is a first hand historical account of the life of Jesus.
The Qu'ran, made up 600+ years later, contradicts the historical facts of Jesus in the bible.

You muslims know all this already. You've been told these facts many times.
Guess that doesn't stop the Qu'ran thumping though ...
... too bad.




hey ff thanks for fulfiling the prophecy by sk0rpie

thanks also for contributing.
I guess we wont stop thumping our own scripture, its fine with me, hope its fine with you.
maybe you'l do a favour to the muslim gang here and listen the video, maybe you did already, did you? If not then will you?
I want your response about it, think of it as a research i am doing. I would like responses of others too who listened.
Hope we have a good discussion.



posted on Feb, 27 2013 @ 11:45 AM
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reply to post by logical7
 


Let's do a little comparison against the Bible, specifically the story of the angel coming to Elisabeth and Mary as told in Luke, chapter 1.

I'll start here...

The Qu'ran...


16. And mention in the Book (the Qur'an, O Muhammad , the story of) Maryam (Mary), when she withdrew in seclusion from her family to a place facing east.


The Bible...


Luke 1:24 - And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, and hid herself five months, saying,


I think Muhammad confused the events between Elisabeth and Mary.

Why did the Qu'ran say that John would be the one raised up to life again after his death instead of Jesus?


13. And (made him) sympathetic to men as a mercy (or a grant)
from Us, and pure from sins [i.e.
Yahya (John)] and he was
righteous,
14. And dutiful towards his parents, and he was neither an
arrogant nor disobedient (to
Allah or to his parents).
15. And Salamun (peace) be on him the day he was born, the
day he dies, and the day he will
be raised up to life (again)!


I think Muhammad was confused as to what happened to who and when.



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 03:25 AM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by logical7
 


Let's do a little comparison against the Bible, specifically the story of the angel coming to Elisabeth and Mary as told in Luke, chapter 1.

I'll start here...

The Qu'ran...


16. And mention in the Book (the Qur'an, O Muhammad , the story of) Maryam (Mary), when she withdrew in seclusion from her family to a place facing east.


The Bible...


Luke 1:24 - And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, and hid herself five months, saying,


I think Muhammad confused the events between Elisabeth and Mary.

Why did the Qu'ran say that John would be the one raised up to life again after his death instead of Jesus?


13. And (made him) sympathetic to men as a mercy (or a grant)
from Us, and pure from sins [i.e.
Yahya (John)] and he was
righteous,
14. And dutiful towards his parents, and he was neither an
arrogant nor disobedient (to
Allah or to his parents).
15. And Salamun (peace) be on him the day he was born, the
day he dies, and the day he will
be raised up to life (again)!


I think Muhammad was confused as to what happened to who and when.

we all are going to be raised up to life(again), thats the resurrection day.
The problem arises when you apply your christian framework of thinking and see Jesus pbuh at every mention of 'raised up alive'

it seems like Mary did go to east to the same place as Elisabeth

Luke1:39 And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste,
into a city of Juda; 40 And entered into the house of Zacharias, and saluted Elisabeth.


Luke1:56 And Mary abode with her about three months, and returned to her
own house.

doesnt seem to be a problem to me, two pregnant women taking shelter at the same place.



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 04:25 AM
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reply to post by logical7
 



we all are going to be raised up to life(again), thats the resurrection day.
The problem arises when you apply your christian framework of thinking and see Jesus pbuh at every mention of 'raised up alive'

it seems like Mary did go to east to the same place as Elisabeth.


If you'll notice, the Qu'ran says Mary went into "seclusion" from her family before the angel appeared to her. Mary didn't go to stay with Elisabeth until after she had been told by the angel that she was pregnant. Secondly, staying with Elisabeth for three months hardly put her in "seclusion" away from her family as Elisabeth was her cousin. The time period for which Elisabeth was hidden away was for five months prior to Mary's arrival. Mary arrived at Elisabeth's when Elisabeth was six months pregnant.

As for Jesus, even the verses you quoted from the Qu'ran mentions Jesus dying and then being "raised up alive", but I've seen Muslims try to use this verse as proof that Jesus never died and that the event won't happen until later.

The problem was when Muhammad tried to apply his Muslim framework into an existing Christian text. Unfortunately, he either couldn't remember what he was taught or he lied, twisting the truth intentionally.



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 06:08 AM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 





If you'll notice, the Qu'ran says Mary went into "seclusion" from her family before the angel appeared to her.

not really, the verse 16 is a title of what happened

16. And mention in the Book (the
Qur'an, O Muhammad , the story of)
Maryam (Mary),
when she withdrew in seclusion from her family to a place facing
east.

the story starts from verse 17 and goes on to mention when the 'seclusion' happened. First the angel came in her prayer chamber and later she went away.

17. She placed a screen (to screen
herself) from them; then
We sent to her Our Ruh [angel
Jibrael (Gabriel)], and he appeared before her in the form
of a man in all respects.
18. She said: "Verily! I seek refuge
with the Most Beneficent
(Allah) from you, if you do fear
Allah." 19. (The angel) said: "I am only a
Messenger from your Lord, (to
announce) to you the gift of a
righteous son."
20. She said: "How can I have a son,
when no man has touched me, nor am I unchaste?"
21. He said: "So (it will be), your Lord
said: 'That is easy for Me
(Allah): And (We wish) to
appoint him as a sign to
mankind and a mercy from Us (Allah), and it is a matter
(already) decreed, (by Allah).' "
22. So she conceived him, and she
withdrew with him to a far
place


As for Jesus, even the verses you
quoted from the Qu'ran mentions
Jesus dying and then being "raised up
alive"

here is the verse,

33. "And Salam (peace) be upon me
the day I was born, and the
day I die, and the day I shall be
raised alive!"

'I die' is future tense and as you said Qur'an is 600+years after Jesus pbuh, that points to a future event, the same about 'the day I shall be raised alive' again in future.(resurection day)



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 07:31 AM
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Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by Deetermined
 



not really, the verse 16 is a title of what happened

the story starts from verse 17 and goes on to mention when the 'seclusion' happened. First the angel came in her prayer chamber and later she went away.


If you want to say that "seclusion" meant her prayer chamber, I have no problem with that.

However, I have a problem with Muhammad stating that she went away to the trunk of a date palm tree instead of to her cousin Elisabeth's house.


'I die' is future tense and as you said Qur'an is 600+years after Jesus pbuh, that points to a future event, the same about 'the day I shall be raised alive' again in future.(resurection day)


If you place "I die" as future tense to Jesus, then you have to apply the same rule to John. As this is what the Qu'ran says about John and Jesus both, as shown below.

Regarding John:

15. And Salamun (peace) be on him the day he was born, the
day he dies, and the day he will
be raised up to life (again)!

Regarding Jesus:

33. "And Salam (peace) be upon me the day I was born, and the
day I die, and the day I shall be
raised alive!"

Now you have to ask yourself again why John was given all of the attributes of Jesus in the Qu'ran?

John according to the Qu'ran:

6. "Who shall inherit me, and inherit (also) the posterity of
Ya'qub (Jacob) (inheritance of
the religious knowledge and
Prophethood, not the wealth,
etc.). And make him, my Lord,
one with whom You are Well- pleased!".

John isn't the one who will be made "Lord", nor was he the one with whom God was "well pleased". These were designations to Jesus, not John.

Look up verses Matthew 3:17, Matthew 17:5, Mark 1:11, Luke 3:22.

Here's another one about Jesus from the Qu'ran:

35. It befits not (the Majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son
. Glorified (and
Exalted be He above all that they associate with Him).

Now go back and read Matthew 3:17, Matthew 17:5, Mark 1:11 and Luke 3:22 again.



edit on 28-2-2013 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 09:00 AM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 





However, I have a problem with Muhammad stating that she went away to the trunk of a date palm tree instead of to her cousin Elisabeth's house.

cant she go to the palm tree near the time of child birth? She did leave from her cousin's place before John pbuh was born after staying 3 months with Elisabeth as Bible says and had about 6 more months left to give birth.

If you place "I die" as future tense to
Jesus, then you have to apply the
same rule to John. As this is what the
Qu'ran says about John and Jesus
both, as shown below. Regarding John: 15. And Salamun (peace) be on him
the day he was born, the
day he dies, and the day he will
be raised up to life (again)! Regarding Jesus: 33. "And Salam (peace) be upon me
the day I was born, and the
day I die, and the day I shall be
raised alive!"

regarding John pbuh the future tense is used as he was martyred and here's what Qur'an says about it

2:154. "And do not say of those who
are slain in Allah's way: ' They are
dead.' Nay (they are) alive, but you
perceive (it) not."

regarding Jesus pbuh the future tense is used as he is being "quoted" as a baby and the events lie in baby's future and/or the death has still not happened. Qur'an clearly states that in other places,

4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed
Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the
Messenger of Allah";- but they killed
him not, nor crucified him, but so it
was made to appear to them, and
those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge,
but only conjecture to follow, for of a
surety they killed him not


Now you have to ask yourself again
why John was given all of the
attributes of Jesus in the Qu'ran? John according to the Qu'ran: 6. "Who shall inherit me, and inherit
(also) the posterity of
Ya'qub (Jacob) (inheritance of
the religious knowledge and
Prophethood, not the wealth,
etc.). And make him, my Lord, one with whom You are Well-
pleased!". John isn't the one who will be made
"Lord", nor was he the one with
whom God was "well pleased". These
were designations to Jesus, not John.

who talked about making anyone 'lord' its Zechariah pbuh praying to God as 'my Lord' (do you see the christian thinking and how deep it is that it makes you read things differently)
Isnt John pbuh and inheritor from lineage of Jacob pbuh?
Can God be "well pleased" with just one prophet?

Here's another one about Jesus from
the Qu'ran: 35. It befits not (the Majesty of) Allah
that He should beget a son
. Glorified (and
Exalted be He above all that they
associate with Him). Now go back and read Matthew 3:17,
Matthew 17:5, Mark 1:11 and Luke
3:22 again.

so are you saying that you'l believe Bible because you are Christian? Thats a no brainer.
Qur'an is refuting the allegation, clearing Jesus pbuh from being associated with God in divinity and bringing back pure monotheism.



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 09:15 AM
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reply to post by logical7
 



30. "He ['Iesa (Jesus)] said: Verily! I am a slave of Allah, He has given me the Scripture and made me a Prophet;"


Why would Muhammad say that Jesus was given the Scripture and then contradict for himself everything that the scriptures said?

The Old Testament is filled with the story of Jesus' crucifixion, why didn't Muhammad believe it?

Jesus said he came to fulfill that scripture, so why do you choose to believe Muhammad over Jesus?

Why do you choose to believe Muhammad over all of the prophets and disciples?



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 10:00 AM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 





Why would Muhammad say that Jesus was given the Scripture and then contradict for himself everything that the scriptures said?

Jesus pbuh was given the Gospel that he preached orally not the Bible that you have now, Bible is not even a name, it just comes from biblos meaning book.

The Old Testament is filled with the
story of Jesus' crucifixion, why didn't
Muhammad believe it?

really? Why dont the jews believe it? OT has some mentions that fit but it doesnt anywhere teaches the claims in christianity.

Jesus said he came to fulfill that
scripture, so why do you choose to
believe Muhammad over Jesus?
we believe both as prophets and both are equal to us, infact, all prophets deserve equal respect.

Why do you choose to believe
Muhammad over all of the prophets
and disciples?
because he is the latest and last, every prophet is to be followed during his prophethood, now its the time of Muhammad pbuh.
Isnt this simple? There are so many religions because people dont accept the next prophet and branch away.



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 10:30 AM
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reply to post by logical7
 





Jesus pbuh was given the Gospel that he preached orally not the Bible that you have now, Bible is not even a name, it just comes from biblos meaning book.


Jesus quoted over 60 scriptures from 24 different books of the Old Testament. Most, if not all of the Old Testament was already available to them at that time.

Luke 24:44

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 10:35 AM
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reply to post by logical7
 





really? Why dont the jews believe it? OT has some mentions that fit but it doesnt anywhere teaches the claims in christianity.


Read Psalm 22 and then you tell me!



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 10:36 AM
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reply to post by logical7
 





we believe both as prophets and both are equal to us, infact, all prophets deserve equal respect.


Then why don't you believe anything that Jesus taught about himself?



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 10:40 AM
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reply to post by logical7
 





because he is the latest and last, every prophet is to be followed during his prophethood, now its the time of Muhammad pbuh. Isnt this simple? There are so many religions because people dont accept the next prophet and branch away.


There are so many religions because people ignore what the greatest prophet (Jesus) had to say.

Islam teaches that Jesus will be the one to defeat the Anti-Christ, but none of you want to listen to what he had to say about himself and what his relationship to God even was.



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 06:03 AM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by logical7
 





really? Why dont the jews believe it? OT has some mentions that fit but it doesnt anywhere teaches the claims in christianity.


Read Psalm 22 and then you tell me!

Psalm 22 ends with the one calling God being saved by God. I would never understand how 'saving' means letting die and then raising up again? Its like failing and then using the power as being God to correct it.



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 06:14 AM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by logical7
 





Jesus pbuh was given the Gospel that he preached orally not the Bible that you have now, Bible is not even a name, it just comes from biblos meaning book.


Jesus quoted over 60 scriptures from 24 different books of the Old Testament. Most, if not all of the Old Testament was already available to them at that time.

Luke 24:44

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.




yes. So? I am not denying that he was propheciesed as Messiah. Qur'an tells he was taught Torah and Gospel at birth.
Whats your point? Are you telling that he authenticated the Nicene creed? Or that the creed is undoubted taught by him? Then you are stretching it too much. It can only be proved by backward rationalisations.
Here's a simple fact, give an intelligent person an OT & Gospel and let him reach an understanding freely, he would never reach the creed.
Do you see this and agree to this objectively without your faith becoming a factor in your reply?
edit on 1-3-2013 by logical7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2013 @ 06:18 AM
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reply to post by logical7
 


Read verse 20 carefully. Jesus asked God to "deliver my soul from the sword". To save means to save the soul, not the body.



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