So Maybe There ARE Chemtrails...

reply to post by threewisemonkeys

SPICE was cancelled and it was to be a test for the feasibility of pumping water to a balloon. Not exactly a field test of geoengineering. More a test of a delivery system.
www.nature.com...

Have they conducted trials? Yes

You haven't provided evidence of that. But here's something for you. A Russian test with a truck and a helicopter. They laid out a smoke screen and found that it attenuated visible sunlight. I could have told them that.
Russia

especially when what people report to see is pretty much what is described on paper as being how they say they would do it,

Actually, as I understand it, what people see is the opposite of that. Peristent contrails induce a warming effect.

That leaves 3 catagories left. Cat3: Small scale trials (

reply to post by threewisemonkeys

Sure, here's one such trial.

Sorry but that has been cancelled...

A controversial geoengineering experiment to simulate the cooling effect of volcanoes has been cancelled due to concern over a perceived conflict of interest with some of the researchers.

www.guardian.co.uk...

Sorry, Phage answered before I could...

Originally posted by threewisemonkeys
reply to post by tsurfer2000h

 

You assume the burden of proof is on me, it isn't. You seem to want to make the claim that all there is are contrails. Well, if that is your assertion, prove it.

Ignorance is denying that field trials have been conducted. They have, plenty of info out there on government webites about them for those who can be bothered to take off the blinkers. Whereas Phage would have you believe that the only computer modelling exists, at least that seemed to be his claim.

Ignorance is also believing that if you are not privy to information, this or that does not exist or is not happening. Ive lost count of the cases where those, like Phage, who deny everything except ignorance, shout conspiracy! from the rooftops, only for it to turn out that what do you know, it did actually happen as all the nut jobs thought.

Ignorance is believing that science is always right. If there was ever a use for the acronym LOL, that statement would be it. Science is often skewed, bastardised or just plain fabricated to fit into a certain scientific dogma.

Asking questions, even stupid questions, that is denying ignorance. Yet you, sounds like you just wish people would shut up. What do we call that? Yeah you got it, ignorance.

Are you sure about that?

Pretty sure yeah. That reply wasn't to you. But if the shoe fits...

edit on 6-3-2013 by threewisemonkeys because: (no reason given)

So you're saying that something is a chemtrail, others are not, and you tell them to prove you wrong?

You're a pimple on a monkey's arse. Nobody else can prove me wrong, so it must be true, right?

You are making the claim that chemtrails exist, you have to prove that you are right. AFTER that, if they wish to do it, the people that think you are wrong have to prove that you are wrong.

Me thinks that some people (on both sides) need to refresh themselves on debate and the rules of arguing.

.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


I have evidence that the government has been dropping paranoia inducing chemicals in chemtrails to make everyone more paranoid so they can start WW3.

reply to post by MarioOnTheFly


Me too. Until all you guys come off the fence I'm staying right here, on the fence. The only problem is the fence is OUTSIDE, and if chemtrails do exist, that's where they are!!!!! Need to build a fence inside my house and stay on that until conclusive evidence comes about either way.

reply to post by stars15k


I know what you mean. You can never get anywhere on here without someone butting into a conversation just when it's getting interesting and spouting all sorts of garbage about all sorts of rubbish. It'd be good to have a level-headed discussion that doesn't take place in all capital letters

reply to post by Phage


"Persistent contrails induce a warming effect."

all i know is that today when the sun got blocked by persistent contrails it cooled down real quick, also there are so many factors involved, these annoying contrails might trap in some gases but they can also block out the sun's energy in our upper atmosphere before hitting the earth, I would want to see a comprehensive study that includes both those factors before making this statement ...

reply to post by bluestorm

these annoying contrails might trap in some gases

Contrails don't trap gases. They trap heat.

I would want to see a comprehensive study that includes both those factors before making this statement ...

Why be satisfied with just one?
scholar.google.com...

Here's one that puts it in less technical terms.
www.newscientist.com...

a new cloud class ‘contrail cirrus’ , this is what its all about- I dont care how contrail cirrus are formed whether from water vapor or some other aerosol, the effects are the same, the stealing of my blue days, the stealing of water vapor from naturally forming cirrus, effects on agriculture and the solar industry...

reply to post by bluestorm

Ok. That's more like it. Nothing is being sprayed but the effects of contrails is a valid concern.

What do you suggest? No more planes? That wouldn't work out so well. We're pretty dependent on them and using other means of transportation would add more pollution at the surface, where we live.

Fly lower so they don't produce contrails? More pollution, including CO2. Not good.

the stealing of water vapor from naturally forming cirrus

That doesn't really have much effect since we don't get precipitation from cirrus clouds anyway. It's more of a swap, more contrail cirrus = fewer natural cirrus. Both have pretty much the same effects on climate. The difference is that contrail cirrus can form where natural cirrus can't. Meaning more high cloudiness (and more warming). The amount of warming hasn't been firmly established. One of the problems is, it's really hard to tell the difference between natural cirrus and aged contrails.

Great example of a normal contrail and lingering chemtrail.

The contrail disappears almost right away.

You would expect lower in the atmosphere, there would be less ice crystal formation and/or they would disappear even more quickly at higher temperatures.

Yet in this video, the lower "trail" lingers much longer than the higher one, exactly the opposite you would expect according to the chemtrail debunkers if these were only contrails.

There is no doubt chemtrails exist. The only question is why. Don't be caught up in Orwellian distractions.

reply to post by PlanetXisHERE

Tell me.
How can you tell which one is higher?

reply to post by Phage


Really, is that all you have with this one? You can do better than that, but I know you need more time..........

reply to post by PlanetXisHERE

No. I'd like an answer from you.
How do you know which one is higher?

Originally posted by bluestorm
a new cloud class ‘contrail cirrus’ , this is what its all about-

Cirrus Aviaticus

I dont care how contrail cirrus are formed whether from water vapor or some other aerosol, the effects are the same, the stealing of my blue days, the stealing of water vapor from naturally forming cirrus, effects on agriculture and the solar industry...

It has no effect on the solar industry or agriculture - the actual optical depth of the atmosphere - how much it blocks the suns energy - is either not changing or is decreasing over the western world - and increasing in places where they have a lot of pollution such as China and India. It is also increasing in places where a lot more dust is generated such as the Sahara and Arabian Peninsula eg:

Temporal increase of FdAOTs (440 nm) prevails over newly industrializing countries in East Asia (weighted trends; +6.23% yr−1 at Beijing) and active agricultural burning regions in South Africa (+1.89% yr−1 at Mongu). On the other hand, insignificant or negative trends for FdAOTs are detected over Western Europe (+0.25% yr−1 at Avignon and −2.29% yr−1 at Ispra) and North America (−0.52% yr−1 for GSFC and −0.01% yr−1 at MD_Science_Center). Over desert regions, both increase and decrease of CdAOTs (+3.37% yr−1 at Solar_Village and −1.18% yr−1 at Ouagadougou) are observed depending on meteorological conditions.

- abstract

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


"It has no effect on the solar industry or agriculture"

yes it does, it blocks a lot of the sun where i live, it has too have some effects, I dont think this has even been studied yet..

reply to post by Phage


"Nothing is being sprayed"

I dont have a way to test whats happening so I keep an open mind.. but you can not rule out spraying, you simple do not know this as fact in all cases of contrail cirrus, its your assumption..

reply to post by bluestorm

its your assumption.

I would say it is an assumption that anything is being sprayed in spite of the lack of evidence that it is. In light of the fact that persistent contrails have been observed since planes were able to fly high enough. It is not necessary that anything be sprayed to produce persistent contrails.