So Maybe There ARE Chemtrails...

Originally posted by stars15k
reply to post by profundus

 

Well, it's not contrails causing cancer. They are too high up and are diluted by the entire atmosphere.
And it's not "chemtrails" because they have not been proven to exist.

People have had cancer since there were first people. Some types of cancer are idiopathic, some have been linked to exposure to one thing or another.
My father died of cancer this past November. He had a very aggressive form of bladder cancer that had spread to include his entire gut. Chemo therapy gave him time and a bit of comfort. His case was too advanced to do much more than that and he refused further surgery. He was an incredibly active strong man, who hadn't smoked for decades (the cancer never spread to his lungs or brain, btw), ate healthily , maintained a good weight for his entire life and was able to swim, kayak, run, and bike well after his cancer diagnoses. Why did he develop cancer? Nobody knows. His was idiopathic. Cancer has been studied for centuries, all over the world. That we don't have a remedy is not anyone's fault, plan, or because some mysterious "they" don't want us well. To say or think anything different is wrong in too many ways to enumerate.
If you think the world is controlled by just a few, you are putting yourself up as a helpless victim. Stop whining.

If i "think" the world is run by a few? No! IT IS run by a few. Like i mentioned, pages ago, study something regarding "bloodlines". Ever hear the expression: "He that has the gold, MAKES THE RULES"? If you think individual countries or rogue nations are running things...then, you should also research the NWO. These are plans have been passed down, from generation to generation. This stuff has been going on for a very long time. Nothing is by "coincidence". These people operate on a level you can't even perceive. That's why they're 1%ers and you're NOT!

Cash rules everything around me! It's all about the Benjamin's baby. All about the dolla, dolla bill yo!

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


I'm beginning to believe that the "chemtrail" shills, the one's who have websites asking for donations to the cause and selling all kinds of different products or advertising, have planted people here at ATS with the sole purpose of wearing down the people who are able to have rational, fact-based conversations about how and why the "chemtrail" phenomena could not work. There seems to be a certain group, sometimes just a person or two, who too passionately disrupt and derail earnest attempts at understanding science and calls for research and study. Some seem bound to glom "chemtrails" in enough other different conspiracies just to muddy the entire topic, until no one even remembers what the OP actually said.
I'm sure with all the time they have spent on this one thread that they must be getting paid to be here.....how else would they be able to spend this much time and energy on just one topic?
The only one's making any money on "chemtrails" are the "professionals", with their videos, books and personal appearances. By getting people to "believe" they are able to continue to make a pretty good living.
Some people here sure seem to be pushing the agenda to deny science in favor of ignorance, suspicion, and paranoia. Kind of makes you wonder, doesn't it?

Originally posted by stars15k
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

I'm beginning to believe that the "chemtrail" shills, the one's who have websites asking for donations to the cause and selling all kinds of different products or advertising, have planted people here at ATS with the sole purpose of wearing down the people who are able to have rational, fact-based conversations about how and why the "chemtrail" phenomena could not work. There seems to be a certain group, sometimes just a person or two, who too passionately disrupt and derail earnest attempts at understanding science and calls for research and study. Some seem bound to glom "chemtrails" in enough other different conspiracies just to muddy the entire topic, until no one even remembers what the OP actually said.
I'm sure with all the time they have spent on this one thread that they must be getting paid to be here.....how else would they be able to spend this much time and energy on just one topic?
The only one's making any money on "chemtrails" are the "professionals", with their videos, books and personal appearances. By getting people to "believe" they are able to continue to make a pretty good living.
Some people here sure seem to be pushing the agenda to deny science in favor of ignorance, suspicion, and paranoia. Kind of makes you wonder, doesn't it?

Your "facts" are about as good as everyone else's. None of us have the "facts", about ANYTHING! We ONLY HAVE WHAT THEY TELL US or HAVE TOLD US! They told us: 2+2=4 and kept pounding it in us; so that we now believe that 2+2 does =4 and if anyone says differently, that person is uneducated. But, can you PROVE that 2+2=4? NO! You can't! You can only give "facts" based on what has been PASSED DOWN to you.

Maybe, that's too deep for your understanding. Not sure what else to tell ya.

Originally posted by stars15k
That people would rather "feel" and "look up" and rant on and on about how "they" are out doing something to "us", than know and learn what and why trails form behind airplanes, is just sad.

That's what I just said, more or less, to the other guy.

Maybe "someone" has an agenda to keep those people busy. You know, make up some idiotic conspiracy story...everyone who believes in it is one less person who would otherwise be dangerous (Aka: Let the idiots waste their time with their fantasies, rather than looking at REAL problems in this world).

On the other hand, you must also see that those people, since obviously entirely non rational, are ONLY working from a belief system, they are CONVINCED about what they believe, not based on facts but on what "reality" they constructed in their mind.

And every time when someone has such beliefs, it is very difficult to admit error, or one even starts to AVOID any evidence and research that would actually confirm they are wrong. (Eg creationism etc., same thing). Because admitting that someone is wrong in their beliefs is incredible difficult, it requires to overcome pride and the admission that "one was wrong" maybe for many years. So.....as a result, some vague "i feel" or "i think" becomes stronger and is more readily accepted as "proof" that the own belief must be true - while real, hard evidence proving the exact opposite is rejected or not even looked at, because of fear that the own belief might be destroyed. And this, of course, cannot be allowed due to pride etc.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Originally posted by Philippines

Ok, so what are ideal conditions for the contrail sheets to form?

contrails generally form where the temperature is low wenough and Rhw (relative humidity for water) is >70%. they persist when Rhi (Relative humidity Ice) is >100%

This paper has a relatively simple "plain english" discussion of the conditions required for contrails to form and persist in section 2: Background. It pretty much boils down to:

Contrails can form and develop into cirrus clouds when T 100% because, in many instances,
aircraft exhaust temporarily raises the local Rh above 100% as it mixes with the ambient air causing nucleation
of liquid droplets that freeze instantly. Therefore, contrails can add to the natural cirrus coverage when
T,2398C and Rhi . 100% and no natural cirrus cloud is already present (Fig. 1). If Rhi

Originally posted by profundus

Originally posted by flyswatter

I'm not the one believing things are being run: BY THE BOOK, you are! And, again, like i said: I'm not the one building nuclear power plants, next to an ocean. I'm not the one building nuclear weapons that could destroy us all. Now am i??? That's all the evidence a person needs to know that lunatics are running amuck on our planet! They don't care if we die during their experiments, now do they???

So you believe in what you believe in, regardless of the lack of evidence to prove the fact. Well, that IS your option, cant deny you that.

You've deflected every question that I have asked you by throwing questions back about what I believe. You cannot produce evidence for anything that I have asked questions about. I've been nothing but cordial in posing my questions and making it clear about being open minded, but you do not appear to be capable of doing the same.

Sir, it is in fact YOU that are being closed-minded here. Where I have given you every opportunity to prove me wrong and/or change my mind, you have both not taken the opportunity and not had anywhere remotely close to the same open-mindedness.

You dont have to provide anything, and you can just keep deflecting the questions. Completely up to you how to handle it. I'm going to sit here and be willing to accept evidence, just as I have always been. Not going to change at all.

I deflected them because they weren't worth enough of my attention to even answer them. At this point, it doesn't matter what our eyes see, what our hearts tell us, or what we believe. Your attitude towards this has been: show us proof; when the "proof" you seek, is in the opening of this thread. But, again, that wasn't "enough proof". You need more. And when you get more, you require even more; and more, and more. It's NEVER enough. Patents aren't enough. Admissions aren't enough. Videos aren't enough. It's NEVER ENOUGH because you swear by "science"; and unfortunately for you, science has been taken hostage.

So, SHOW US PROOF that what they're doing is EXACTLY how they say they're doing it; on the up-n-up!!! YOU CAN'T because it's UNPROVABLE.

And here you go putting words in my mouth. I've never once claimed that they are doing exactly what they say they are doing, and I've never claimed that chemtrails do not exist. I have simply asked for proof of what you're saying.

You have not answered my questions asking for pictures or proof because you have none. Read that? You have *ZERO* proof. Nada. Nothing. Less than something. Null. Here's answers to your points above:

Admissions are a starting point, but those making admissions have to back up their claims. I could "admit" that I am an alient from the planet Jujubee, but without any proof of it, people should be looking at me like I am stupid.

The videos that have been shown have been full of shots of refueling tankers and ballast testing aircraft. How on Earth does that count as proof of anything?

Patents are not proof that technology is in use. If you cared to learn enough about the requirements for patents, you would know this. Or do you really thing the patents for a time machine are actually being used, too?

You are full of hot air, with no substance. You are asked to provide evidence, but you dont because you cant. Why I am still here and willing to accept whatever evidence you think you can come up with, I dont know. Up to this point I have been nothing but polite and cordial in my posts directed at you, while you have been condescending and riding a high horse.

reply to post by profundus


Well, maybe you have extra or less parts than I do. I hold up two fingers on both hands and come up with four. Always have, always will.
If you believe otherwise, please go visit a kindergarten. I'm sure there will be lots of people there who agree with me and will look at you like you are nuts.
Perhaps that is why you do not seem to understand the science involved. It requires a lot of higher math.

I find it disturbing that the most fire-breathing, and hateful comments from Chemtrail promoters always tend to get the most stars. What I am seeing, is a consistent dismissal of any point raised by a chemtrail-denier. These two elements make me very, very suspicious of this entire conspiracy theory - something that is based on strong emotions, and not logic and reason, is not my cup of tea.

By the way, I'm still on the fence with this issue. (Pending a personal investigation)

reply to post by stars15k


What? Like a new member with only 103 posts and 82 of those posts are in this thread and pushing very hard the chemtrail agenda?

Originally posted by stars15k
reply to post by profundus

 

Well, maybe you have extra or less parts than I do. I hold up two fingers on both hands and come up with four. Always have, always will.
If you believe otherwise, please go visit a kindergarten. I'm sure there will be lots of people there who agree with me and will look at you like you are nuts.
Perhaps that is why you do not seem to understand the science involved. It requires a lot of higher math.

Go see, how important your math skills are, to the people living in the rainforest of Brazil. We're so out of touch with REALITY. Math means squat when your dying of starvation.

reply to post by TrueAmerican
[More]

wow this video is funny first do any of you people know what ballast barrels are? They use them in flight tests to simulate passengers think about this do you want to test a plane's avionics with 250 people on board the aircraft then have them fail? Every picture ive ever seen of the interior of these planes supposedly smuggled out of some top secret area are nothing more than flight tests. They fill barrels with water and hook up pumps to even simulate passenger movements like in a flight where they served bad food and everyone makes a rush for the bathroom. The planes avionics are not supposed to change due to weight movements in the plane. For example a strap comes undone in the cargo hold the plane needs to be able to handle the weight shifting without crashing. Heres a simple question when people take pictures of Chemtrails on commercial flights where are the passengers? how do they mannage to get them on the plane when they land if all this equipment is in the plane.If the plane arives at the airport empty would this tip off alot of airport personel? I love going to the airport sitting by the runway and watch planes come in and i see contrails all the time.But how can this be if all the aircraft come in empty now theres a conspiracy ?

Originally posted by Son of Will
I find it disturbing that the most fire-breathing, and hateful comments from Chemtrail promoters always tend to get the most stars. What I am seeing, is a consistent dismissal of any point raised by a chemtrail-denier. These two elements make me very, very suspicious of this entire conspiracy theory - something that is based on strong emotions, and not logic and reason, is not my cup of tea.

By the way, I'm still on the fence with this issue. (Pending a personal investigation)

edit on 28-2-2013 by Son of Will because: (no reason given)

If ANYONE is breathing fire, it's team contrail; who INSIST that everybody else is wrong, and that's that. It's kinda like debatin' with people regarding 911. Some of you still believe the government's "official story". The only people pushing an agenda here, is "team contrail".

Originally posted by profundus

Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by stars15k

 

What? Like a new member with only 103 posts and 82 of those posts are in this thread and pushing very hard the chemtrail agenda?

Pushing the chemtrail agenda? I HARDLY THINK SO! I'm pushing the agenda to clean up our planet. However you want to slice it, is fine by me.

And, what does it say about someone that makes 20,000+ posts? Either A. You got no life...or B. You shill for a living. I'll debate you on ANY TOPIC my friend. ANY!

And, i may have commented 80+ times, but look at my star count. If you wanna keep track.

I'll debate YOU and YOUR SHILL FRIENDS! All of you vs. lil ole me. Any topic! Holla when ready!

Facts trump theories in this debate, sir. Every single thing that I have stated as a fact in this thread is backed up by factual evidence. You, on the other hand, cannot claim the same.

If facts were legs, I'd be a damn centipede running circles around your wheelchair-bound carcass.

reply to post by mymymy


well, as i said, i'm not for or against the existence of chemtrails...

my whole thing is how adamant the anti-camp is about it not even being within the realm of possibility...it's quite odd..

anyway, it's said that everyone reacts differently to what's in the spray -shrug- some people get sick right away, some later on....as i said before, i don't know how much of it is true, and i don't completely endorse either camp...

Originally posted by totallackey

reply to post by Daedalus

 

the kind of pollution alleged to be used in chemtrails obviously isn't the stuff of instant painful death...it's slow death, and creeping illness

Oh, you mean the type of death that has plagued mankind since time began...oh, that's different!!! Yeah, we must eliminate this type of death immediately...where do I send my contribution?

your sarcasm isn't lost on me....funny as you think you are, you really shouldn't quit your day job. you're not clever, or funny..

is there someone here collecting contributions?

i never said i completely believed any of it, i just said it's possible...are you even bothering to use that thing between your ears, or are you just shotgunning it, and making snarky, smartass comments to ANYONE who says something that's not 100% in line with what you're saying?

Originally posted by flyswatter

Originally posted by profundus

Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by stars15k

 

What? Like a new member with only 103 posts and 82 of those posts are in this thread and pushing very hard the chemtrail agenda?

Pushing the chemtrail agenda? I HARDLY THINK SO! I'm pushing the agenda to clean up our planet. However you want to slice it, is fine by me.

And, what does it say about someone that makes 20,000+ posts? Either A. You got no life...or B. You shill for a living. I'll debate you on ANY TOPIC my friend. ANY!

And, i may have commented 80+ times, but look at my star count. If you wanna keep track.

I'll debate YOU and YOUR SHILL FRIENDS! All of you vs. lil ole me. Any topic! Holla when ready!

Facts trump theories in this debate, sir. Every single thing that I have stated as a fact in this thread is backed up by factual evidence. You, on the other hand, cannot claim the same.

If facts were legs, I'd be a damn centipede running circles around your wheelchair-bound carcass.

Today's history books says 911 was a terrorist attack and explains how they smashed planes into the buildings, causing them to collapse. Is that "fact"? If not, why? It's in the HISTORY BOOKS. Therefore, IT HAS TO BE A FACT, according to your logic.

The same people that wrote the history books, wrote the science books, and all the other books of indoctrination. The ONLY THING important, on this planet, is seedtime and harvest. If we keep messing up that cycle, we'll all be wishing we would have 'done things differently'. If you stand for nothing, you'll fall for anything. Eventually, we're gonna have to stand for SOMETHING because we're falling for everything. Pretty naive of mankind. History has taught us NOTHING so, why bother using it as FACT???

Fact is...they HAVE used chemicals via aviation, during times of war; and right now, we are in a never ending war. You, me, ALL OF US; WE are the enemy. Get that thoroughly wrapped around your in the box thinking. Times have change, my friends; and 911 was the trumpet blare.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

Hey look what I found in there:

You sound like the guys in the 1940's and 1950's, "cigarette smoking isn't bad for you, we have no evidence it is..." ... wow... you really beleive that one back then too I guess.

metabunk.org...


Sounds familiar.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Hi phage, i missed you too.....

If you're implying what i think you are, don't even bother...we're not the same person, and if you even so much as INSINUATE that the opposite is true, past this post, i will report your ass to administration.

remember when you started being deliberately obtuse, and playing dumb? and remember how i decided to end the conversation, because you obviously had lost interest? remember how i didn't say another thing to you after that?

I left you alone. Leave me alone.

Originally posted by Daedalus

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

Hey look what I found in there:

You sound like the guys in the 1940's and 1950's, "cigarette smoking isn't bad for you, we have no evidence it is..." ... wow... you really beleive that one back then too I guess.

metabunk.org...


Sounds familiar.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Hi phage, i missed you too.....

If you're implying what i think you are, don't even bother...we're not the same person, and if you even so much as INSINUATE that the opposite is true, past this post, i will report your ass to administration.

remember when you started being deliberately obtuse, and playing dumb? and remember how i decided to end the conversation, because you obviously had lost interest? remember how i didn't say another thing to you after that?

I left you alone. Leave me alone.

I think Phage is off duty, enjoying time with his family. Someone else is on-duty now. Does anyone know who's workin' the "chemtrail threads" tonights???

Originally posted by Daedalus

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

Hey look what I found in there:

You sound like the guys in the 1940's and 1950's, "cigarette smoking isn't bad for you, we have no evidence it is..." ... wow... you really beleive that one back then too I guess.

metabunk.org...


Sounds familiar.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Hi phage, i missed you too.....

If you're implying what i think you are, don't even bother...

Too late - he already did.

we're not the same person, and if you even so much as INSINUATE that the opposite is true, past this post, i will report your ass to administration.

Well I certainly think you are the same as the person who posted the same ideas on another board.

I post on that other board - different name but similar avatar - not too hard to spot, don't know what the problem with being so identified would be.

But hey - if you deny it then ok - it's not actually a big deal I won't believe you but I'm not going to worry about it....although if you ar 2 different people then I would still curious why the 2 of you posted such similar content so closely together.

remember when you started being deliberately obtuse, and playing dumb? and remember how i decided to end the conversation, because you obviously had lost interest? remember how i didn't say another thing to you after that?

Sounds like bliss - feel free!

I left you alone. Leave me alone.

Ooohhh...poor baby......