Dear ATS UFO Forumer

Everytime i checked ATS thread it seems sensationalist threads are the one that garner most attention.. Sure there are gems but there are very rare.. Karl12's thread are consistently focused on serious UFO documentation and never veer single inch toward sensationalism, some also consistently post enlightening historical UFO phenomena research but these kind of threads are exception to the rule in ATS

Is it possible to group serious UFO threads into a sub-forum thread and those that focus on sensationalism and blurry photographs/movies into other sub forum ? its getting hard to filter serious threads from the sensationalism threads.

now i understand that the threads mirrors real world's UFOLOGY , meaning that most people do not really focus on researching UFO phenomena historically and they go for the usual garbage information thats circulating in UFOLOGY especially US. The rise of disinformation and junk information since 1980s gave way to more and more hilarious and impossible 'facts' and yet more people abandon their common sense and start believeing it..

back in the 60-70s there's lack on report/data on crashed saucers, sure there are few but never have major impact on the serious research. Nowadays it grown from crashed saucers and crew recovery to underground bases, goverment conspiracy, alien working together with humans, etc. With bad seed all you get is a badly grown tree, with bad information all you get is a nasty imagination/fantasy replacing facts.

For comparison :
- Serious UFO phenomena researchers do not believe in Extra terrestrial hypothesis, they believe in other form of existence (extra dimensional / spirits / etc)
- Serious UFO researcher always noticed the HIGH Strangeness involving UFO encounters, from physical to psychical.
- Serious UFO researcher do field work in interviewing witnesses, in fact its been said that meeting with witnesses are the most effective field research for Ufology
- Modern UFOlogist speaks as if UFO = Aliens from outer space , like its already a FACT.
- Modern UFOlogist speaks of UFO = nuts n bolts spacecraft , like its already a FACT
- Modern UFOlogist hardly (or never) go interview witnesses.
- Modern UFOlogist prefer to disseminate blurry photos and videos and start endless discussion from it

Are there hope for serious UFO Phenomena research ?

Well I've found it hard to separate sensationalism from serious research when looking at the subject of UFO's.

Witness interviews in every other field are considered the least reliable form of research since two people can view the same thing and see different things.

However, this is the basis for serious UFO research which tells me that there is a limit to the credibility of it as a whole.

Basically the best empirical evidence you have is that which you are claiming is sensationalist. Pictures and video are by far the best evidence.

Originally posted by milomilo
Is it possible to group serious UFO threads into a sub-forum thread and those that focus on sensationalism and blurry photographs/movies into other sub forum ? its getting hard to filter serious threads from the sensationalism threads.

Probably not. What you can do though is friend Karl 12, if he's still around, and people like him. That way you can just focus on the people who take it seriously. Just click on his name on your friends list and you have the profile up.

I know what you're saying though. When I started lurking in '05 there were much better threads about the subject. Well thought out and well presented.

Originally posted by milomilo
Dear ATS UFO Forumer

Everytime i checked ATS thread it seems sensationalist threads are the one that garner most attention.. Sure there are gems but there are very rare.. Karl12's thread are consistently focused on serious UFO documentation and never veer single inch toward sensationalism, some also consistently post enlightening historical UFO phenomena research but these kind of threads are exception to the rule in ATS

Is it possible to group serious UFO threads into a sub-forum thread and those that focus on sensationalism and blurry photographs/movies into other sub forum ? its getting hard to filter serious threads from the sensationalism threads.

now i understand that the threads mirrors real world's UFOLOGY , meaning that most people do not really focus on researching UFO phenomena historically and they go for the usual garbage information thats circulating in UFOLOGY especially US. The rise of disinformation and junk information since 1980s gave way to more and more hilarious and impossible 'facts' and yet more people abandon their common sense and start believeing it..

back in the 60-70s there's lack on report/data on crashed saucers, sure there are few but never have major impact on the serious research. Nowadays it grown from crashed saucers and crew recovery to underground bases, goverment conspiracy, alien working together with humans, etc. With bad seed all you get is a badly grown tree, with bad information all you get is a nasty imagination/fantasy replacing facts.

For comparison :
- Serious UFO phenomena researchers do not believe in Extra terrestrial hypothesis, they believe in other form of existence (extra dimensional / spirits / etc)
- Serious UFO researcher always noticed the HIGH Strangeness involving UFO encounters, from physical to psychical.
- Serious UFO researcher do field work in interviewing witnesses, in fact its been said that meeting with witnesses are the most effective field research for Ufology
- Modern UFOlogist speaks as if UFO = Aliens from outer space , like its already a FACT.
- Modern UFOlogist speaks of UFO = nuts n bolts spacecraft , like its already a FACT
- Modern UFOlogist hardly (or never) go interview witnesses.
- Modern UFOlogist prefer to disseminate blurry photos and videos and start endless discussion from it

Are there hope for serious UFO Phenomena research ?

I dunno if this site is the place to go if you want serious UFO Phenomena Research, i myself have been studying the topic for years and am not exactly any closer at finding out who or what is piloting the UFO's and if the UFO's are even real, (Google Project Bluebeam.) If you are serious about finding more information about this Phenomena you should look to multiple sites. (Video sites like Youtube have informative stuff on the subject too.)

Here? there's hardcore believers and the skeptics.. they never mesh well ..

I'm more the skeptic.. in that I take on the scientific view point.. I've seen stuff in the sky I can't explain but I don't automatically assume it's an alien craft.. and if I have no evidence then I don't even mention it because I know it's useless in proving alien visitation.. I'm one part of the crowd..

There's another part of the crowd that is convinced we're being visited and they believe all of the circumstantial evidence is evidence.. and they are mostly looking for anything to validate their pre-set conclusions ... there's variations of this in between ..

Serious discussion in the UFO forum will probably not happen any time soon until stricter rules are set on what can and cannot be posted. And since that won't happen any time soon either, then you likely have your answer.

Too many people see a video on YouTube, and instead of reading the comments that it's fake, or doing any research on their own, they post that video here. In which case it is almost always easily debunked, which makes the UFO an IFO, which then clutters up the UFO forum with more IFO trash.

99% of all UFO images and videos posted in the UFO forum are either identifiable as terrestrial objects (balloons, planes, etc.), hoaxes (such as CGI), or tiny dots of light in the night sky that will almost always never be able to be identified.

The UFO forum has become a trash-bin of non-UFO's. And it is truly sad and frustrating for the genuine UFO researcher.

It would be great to get rid of the IFO's cluttering up the UFO forum, so that there are only mostly real, genuine UFO cases to discuss. But I don't see that happening either.

Look up Isaac Koi's threads on the subject and stop complaining. We all hate the crap threads but there are some really good ones

Explain: Serious UFO Threads?

Are these ones that don't border on amusing or funny?

If so,

ATTENTION EVERYONE!!

UNINTENTIONAL SUBMISSION OF "ANY" AMUSING OR BORDERLINE FUNNY UFO VIDEO OR PHOTOGRAPHS ARE EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED!!

Originally posted by milomilo
Dear ATS UFO Forumer

Everytime i checked ATS thread it seems sensationalist threads are the one that garner most attention.. Sure there are gems but there are very rare.. Karl12's thread are consistently focused on serious UFO documentation and never veer single inch toward sensationalism, some also consistently post enlightening historical UFO phenomena research but these kind of threads are exception to the rule in ATS

This much I agree with.

Originally posted by milomilo
For comparison :
- Serious UFO phenomena researchers do not believe in Extra terrestrial hypothesis, they believe in other form of existence (extra dimensional / spirits / etc)
- Serious UFO researcher always noticed the HIGH Strangeness involving UFO encounters, from physical to psychical.
- Serious UFO researcher do field work in interviewing witnesses, in fact its been said that meeting with witnesses are the most effective field research for Ufology
- Modern UFOlogist speaks as if UFO = Aliens from outer space , like its already a FACT.
- Modern UFOlogist speaks of UFO = nuts n bolts spacecraft , like its already a FACT
- Modern UFOlogist hardly (or never) go interview witnesses.
- Modern UFOlogist prefer to disseminate blurry photos and videos and start endless discussion from it

Are there hope for serious UFO Phenomena research ?

All I can say is I strongly disagree with your conclusions/assertions presented as statements of fact.

Firstly, I might argue that many serious researchers HAVE NOT concluded that the "ET/Alien Origin" hypothesis can be discarded.

The whole "Interdimensional" hypothesis is extremely weak given that there is so far zero actual evidence for the existence of any "other dimension" even existing. There are certain theories that suggest some other dimensions might exist in theory, (as in String Theory), but that is so far, just a theory. Likewise there are physicists who argue that there might exist an infinite number of alternate universes. But so far, none of this has been demonstrated to be true, and even if there are an infinite number of universes, there is absolutely no evidence it would be easier to travel between universes than between star systems in this universe.

What researcher out there actually believes that aliens use "nuts and bolts" to construct their spacecraft? I mean, hopefully they are at least advanced to the level of the primitive human technology of the twentieth century and therefore using rivets to assemble their primitive craft!!!

I'm not arguing against "high strangeness" or "spiritual" aspects of the phenomena. But the reality is that if any civilization is able to travel between star systems, they have technology that is probably hundreds or thousands of years beyond us (maybe millions or billions of years beyond us). It would be almost impossible for us to imagine what sorts of technologies they would possess if they were even more than a few decades beyond our current technology.

Originally posted by Taupin Desciple

Originally posted by milomilo
Is it possible to group serious UFO threads into a sub-forum thread and those that focus on sensationalism and blurry photographs/movies into other sub forum ? its getting hard to filter serious threads from the sensationalism threads.

Probably not. What you can do though is friend Karl 12, if he's still around, and people like him. That way you can just focus on the people who take it seriously. Just click on his name on your friends list and you have the profile up.

I know what you're saying though. When I started lurking in '05 there were much better threads about the subject. Well thought out and well presented.

i noticed that the quality of new thread gravitates toward 'is this photo an alien space ship ?' type of thread.. in other words, the quality threads / historical threads get buried under tons of sensationalist threads

ah well..

Originally posted by CaptainBeno
Explain: Serious UFO Threads?

Are these ones that don't border on amusing or funny?

If so,

ATTENTION EVERYONE!!

UNINTENTIONAL SUBMISSION OF "ANY" AMUSING OR BORDERLINE FUNNY UFO VIDEO OR PHOTOGRAPHS ARE EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED!!

no , i dont want prohibition to any ufo thread. if that what you read from my post then i must clarify i prefer multiple sub forum that separate the real UFO cases (eg historical cases) and the 'check out this photo/video for alien spaceship!!" type of post..

Originally posted by bluestreak53

Originally posted by milomilo
Dear ATS UFO Forumer

Everytime i checked ATS thread it seems sensationalist threads are the one that garner most attention.. Sure there are gems but there are very rare.. Karl12's thread are consistently focused on serious UFO documentation and never veer single inch toward sensationalism, some also consistently post enlightening historical UFO phenomena research but these kind of threads are exception to the rule in ATS

This much I agree with.

Originally posted by milomilo
For comparison :
- Serious UFO phenomena researchers do not believe in Extra terrestrial hypothesis, they believe in other form of existence (extra dimensional / spirits / etc)
- Serious UFO researcher always noticed the HIGH Strangeness involving UFO encounters, from physical to psychical.
- Serious UFO researcher do field work in interviewing witnesses, in fact its been said that meeting with witnesses are the most effective field research for Ufology
- Modern UFOlogist speaks as if UFO = Aliens from outer space , like its already a FACT.
- Modern UFOlogist speaks of UFO = nuts n bolts spacecraft , like its already a FACT
- Modern UFOlogist hardly (or never) go interview witnesses.
- Modern UFOlogist prefer to disseminate blurry photos and videos and start endless discussion from it

Are there hope for serious UFO Phenomena research ?

All I can say is I strongly disagree with your conclusions/assertions presented as statements of fact.

Firstly, I might argue that many serious researchers HAVE NOT concluded that the "ET/Alien Origin" hypothesis can be discarded.

The whole "Interdimensional" hypothesis is extremely weak given that there is so far zero actual evidence for the existence of any "other dimension" even existing. There are certain theories that suggest some other dimensions might exist in theory, (as in String Theory), but that is so far, just a theory. Likewise there are physicists who argue that there might exist an infinite number of alternate universes. But so far, none of this has been demonstrated to be true, and even if there are an infinite number of universes, there is absolutely no evidence it would be easier to travel between universes than between star systems in this universe.

What researcher out there actually believes that aliens use "nuts and bolts" to construct their spacecraft? I mean, hopefully they are at least advanced to the level of the primitive human technology of the twentieth century and therefore using rivets to assemble their primitive craft!!!

I'm not arguing against "high strangeness" or "spiritual" aspects of the phenomena. But the reality is that if any civilization is able to travel between star systems, they have technology that is probably hundreds or thousands of years beyond us (maybe millions or billions of years beyond us). It would be almost impossible for us to imagine what sorts of technologies they would possess if they were even more than a few decades beyond our current technology.

edit on 26-2-2013 by bluestreak53 because: punctuation

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thanks friend, i dont mind discussion or disagreement as long as its done like your polite discussion. thats whats forum for, to generate meaningful discussion on topic.

high strangeness, that feeling of being played around .. or being conned.. thats what i perceive from reading loads of historical UFO encounter cases. i feels like someone / something surely hoaxing the whole extra terrestrial angle, the mystery is who doing the hoaxing ? as i feel that witnesses themselves are victim of hoax at massive level.

technology, there are limits on technology itself, we cannot assume something can be solved eventually with technology because something cannot be solved no matter how advanced civilization go. what then after all technology is stripped down to nothing ? is it not the spiritual advancement thats left ? the same spiritual advancement that every scientist scoff ?

the EDH angle also cannot be proven but then again the ETH also cannot be proven, in the end its all just theory. though personally i believe in EDH hypothesis

cheers