GAO Report Finds Obamacare Likely to Add $6.2 Trillion to the Deficit

Originally posted by Xeven
The way they print money these days and give it away to the Elite...taxes have become nothing more than a way to reduce my wealth or income. The government does not need my money when they can just as easily print or electronically produce what they need to pay entitlements and miliatary contractors..

But when they print money, it lowers the value and the purchase power of the dollar and causes inflation, so we lose either way. They have to stop the spending.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by jibeho

 

I think it's becoming clear now. Obama needs those teleprompters because nothing he says are HIS OWN words. he parrots what his speech writers have for him to speak and they write what they're told to write for policy statements and general speeches to the nation's future direction.

As we've seen..when Obama goes off the screens, be becomes a bilthering idiot. Much like the man to warm that seat before him. Biden doesn't even need a lack of teleprompters to fall into idiot status. He just kinda lives there with one foot in and out, every day.

I'd love to hear Barack Obama....as a MAN...just ONCE...say what HE really thought or felt about an issue. I don't think we ever have though and by now? I'm pretty sure we'll see his whole 8 years come and go without sincere words ever really having been spoken in any public forum.

The man is a true MASTER of Public Speaking. No one with sense can deny that or take it from him on that score. The problem is.....the Presidency is an executive position of LEADERSHIP ....not Speakership. Maybe next time we get a leader and not merely a speaker.

Obama is a demagogue. He appeals to the lowest common denominator. It's nothing new.
They have been around for centuries.

Seduce Many By His Speech

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by Xeven
The way they print money these days and give it away to the Elite...taxes have become nothing more than a way to reduce my wealth or income. The government does not need my money when they can just as easily print or electronically produce what they need to pay entitlements and miliatary contractors..

But when they print money, it lowers the value and the purchase power of the dollar and causes inflation, so we lose either way. They have to stop the spending.

Reduce spending???

The Obama administration just trots out the Armageddon Narrative when that is tried.

The scary part is that now that Obama has threatened Armageddon, he must DELIVER

Armageddon or risk looking like a fool when nothing bad happens due to the sequester.

Originally posted by TauCetixeta

Originally posted by stirling
The Canadian Health System has its flaws as well....
I have waited actually years for an MRI
I have waited many many months for surgery.....instances of people actually dying before they get needed treatment occur.......
The truth is that the doctors, the hospitals, the whole shebang has a maonopoly on the system...Its a closed hierarchy.
Medical treatent should be available to all......
No regardless to all.........
The doctors and health care workers i see and know have a pretty fine and comfy life style along with an unhurried and casual work place.....everything here happens at a snails pace...
Unused, for half the 24 hours, medical diagnosis machines lay idle...while the specialised operators sleep in comfort.
Meanwhile real people suffer unwarranted agonies while awaiting diagnoses that are slow enough in comming to possily kill you in the meanime....
NO Medical system is perfect.
But the goverment should be administering the med system and it should all be supported by taxes.
FURNISHED BY THE CORPORATIONS PROFITS!!!!!

A solution arrived in Canada a long time ago.

Medical Tourism

Fly to Texas for quick healthcare. Then fly home to Canada.

Oh yeah!!! Everyone NEEDS america and their pathetic PRIVATE healthcare system, don't they???

Its not just impatient and rich canadians coming to america for healthcare, but MANY AMERICANS going to canada, mexico, cuba, europe, because they can't afford exorbitant american fees.

A reasonable national healthcare system like one that exists EVERYWHERE would have solved 99% of the problems. But they keep telling people you have to wait for 3 months to see a doctor, which of course is usually gross exaggerations. Sometimes you do have to wait a long time but it is not the norm nor frequent. Just use one or two STRAWMANS and boom destroy national healthcare.

I hope you don't smoke, drink, have chronic health problems, are not too old, have a good steady job that will never lay you off or fire you. It must SUCK being out of luck like that, but many millions of americans know all too well. And I am not talking about curing untreatable diseases, since most private insurance companies have a 60 to 80 percent coverage. 100 percent is non-existant or completly unaffordable. Nevermind dental care which is also a big problem for some folks.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by WormwoodSquirm

 

When you have a national healthcare system in place the motivation is to heal you not to treat you forever and create massive bills that are ridiculous and out of reach to ordinary Americans.

No, the motivation is to cut costs to fit a budget. Just ask Obama about how his granny should not have had a hip replacement but he paid for it out of his own pocket......there will be no motivation to heal when the govt oversees everything and it's all run in a bureaucratic mess, just like everything else the govt does.

Maybe it should be a state healthcare system rather than a national one? I have no objection to this. Something like a mutual trust or credit union. It should not be for profit but then again anything the government does is *for profit* since the federal reserve IS the government. People be dammed as always.

reply to post by olaru12


To be fair, I did say most, in most cases, and many times in my post. I never implied that the system was perfect and I'm sure we are all aware that there is room for improvement in the field of medicine.

reply to post by TauCetixeta

Obama is a demagogue. He appeals to the lowest common denominator. It's nothing new.
They have been around for centuries.

I agree, we've had people playing to the lowest for as long as politicians have been running for election and re-election with the lowest being eligible to vote.

The difference is...we don't usually see the lowest common denominator being elected. It's quite ride we're in for. One glance at Drudge Report today is enough to pour a drink and not stop until the bottle's dry. If only I still allowed myself a drink....I could use one as this Sequester nonsense leads to the cliff we should never have had.

Obamacare just forms the rocks at the bottom of the fall.

reply to post by jibeho


The report is flawed since it only takes in the money from the government fronting the healthcare bill which is according to your article: $6.2 trillion over the next 75 years.

So where are the gains from no longer using corporate healthcare? I don't see that as being part of this study, but I also don't see much here except for: $6.2 trillion over the next 75 years.... I'll leave it there but clearly I could name quite a few more things that government healthcare would also take away.

Read up you may learn something: www.washingtonpost.com...

reply to post by jibeho


Our corporate person citizens externalize there risk and costs all the time onto the public purse.

Definition of externalization: From Wikipedia (en.wikipedia.org...)

Fundamentally, cost externalization occurs when a company transfers some of its moral responsibilities as costs to the community directly or as degradation to the environment. For example, railroads and airlines transfer the cost of fuel, noise, and terminal infrastructure to the community. Airlines and auto manufacturers transfer the cost of degraded air quality to the community and the environment. By externalizing to the community or the environment, many true costs become lost in analysis because the true cost is non-quantifiable and neither the community nor the environment have effective advocates to recoup the damages. A major modern theme in the relationship of business to society is the society's ability (or inability) to resist this kind of externalization. In its extreme, society collapses as business realizes its profits.

These 'cost of doing business' are picked up by the public at great risk.

From: tradeplacer.com...

In recent years, several large man-made disasters have been witnessed with widely felt negative effects due to the externalization of risk by entities claiming limited liability. The concept of limited liability was engineered to protect businesses from losing more than all of their capital, but it is now being abused by corporations and governments who use it to externalize excessive risk. The net effect in a financial model is to convert a natural forward contract into a call option for the risk taker. The profits are kept by the risk takers. However, when risk is externalized, the losses are realized by innocent bystanders. This is the definition of moral hazard.

All that said and in response to the outrage about Obamacare:

The Supreme Court of the United States of America has decreed that Corporations are people; therefore, by the symmetric property of mathematics, people are corporations and should be able to externalize their risks to the public purse as well. It is the fundamental principle of 'mutual aid societies'.

And it's d**m well time that little people persons get the same consideration as corporate people. Writing off the cost of doing business and externalizing risk.

Originally posted by stirling
The Canadian Health System has its flaws as well....
I have waited actually years for an MRI
I have waited many many months for surgery....

Where do you live in the Klondike? I got an MRI 3 days after the doctor ordered it.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by Xeven
The way they print money these days and give it away to the Elite...taxes have become nothing more than a way to reduce my wealth or income. The government does not need my money when they can just as easily print or electronically produce what they need to pay entitlements and miliatary contractors..

But when they print money, it lowers the value and the purchase power of the dollar and causes inflation, so we lose either way. They have to stop the spending.

never happen.
Bernake on Fox today said the party line that the countries "debt" is 16 trillion, the lie of the moment that they are going with.
Actually its more like 125 trillion, and will never be paid back.
Our country is like a dinosaur, the brain hasn't figured out that the rest is dead.
The stock market "drops" big on occasion, the trained media gives a bogus reason, but the real reason is that
the people in the know are cashing out of the stock market, and other forms of worthless paper.
Kinda like loading up the SUV and getting outta town at the break of dawn.
The Rockerfellars, having sacked the country, have already left the country, on a boat, yet.
And when our country does crash, with little industry to defend ourselves with, that will be all, folks.

reply to post by jibeho


Didn't he, and democrats in his administration CLAIM that they were not going after firearms and our second amendment right either?... Riiight?.... Riiiight?...

Unfortunately, he has been the "messiah" for so many Americans for so long that in their eyes they either become aware of the truth too late, or they won't even want to admit their error...

reply to post by FyreByrd


In a perfect world, your suggestion would be brilliant!!

reply to post by jibeho


Thats because your not looking at the other side of the equation. You forgot about all the money he is going to be raking in from people not picking up health care. As an example, every single person in Texas that is employable that doesn't have health insurance will be getting dinged just under $1000 by the year 2016. Seeing how Kerry purposly failed to set up any medical exchanges in Texas, thats a hell of a lot of money, and thats just Texas.

I'm very split with Obama care right now I used to be completely against it. Me and my wife make together about 40,000 a year plus we have two kids so were not livin large but were comfortable. Neither of us smoke or drink (maybe like 3 beers at the bar once every two weeks), and we haven't had cable in about 9 months to help lower our deficit to reduce our debt (some brains just melted) . So whenever I had a coworker complain that they couldn't afford healthcare I asked them how many squares they smoke a week and how much do you drink. We would tall the totals and I would say you can afford health insurance.

But then we have my Mom who is 47 and has autoimmune disease, she looks perfectly fine on the outside but has the joints of an 90 year old woman. she used to have great health insurance through my dads work, but then he walked out on her do to him being fed up with her being sick. So now she has been trying to find health insurance for the past year or so but most private insurers want like 300 bucks a month for pitiful coverage, and shes basically incapable of doing any form of job to help pay for her insurance. So when i see this I start to say yeah I kind of want Obama care.

But then in contrast to my mother I go onto a popular video sharing site today and see a 450# man laughing it up as hes jamming Twinkies in his mouth. I'm supposed to feel bad for this guy three weeks later when hes on TV complaining that he needs Obama care to pay for his meds and food supply to stay alive. I'm supposed to give up part of my paycheck to this guy?

my stance on Obama care now is that yeah its a great concept, but in practice how is it going to work. Look at most other government programs there either falling apart or have wide spread fraud going rampant through them.

1.Food stamps
A. people sell there cards to other people for cash so they can use the money to buy drugs or alcohol.
B. I have a guy i work with who make 700 bucks a week under the table plus 250 a week working at the place i work at, so hes technically below poverty level according to the government so he gets 400 bucks a month in groceries.

2. Post office
A. crappy customer service
B. crappy handling of packages
C. hasn't evolved with the times

3. Social security
A. apple + 11 = truck

4. DMV
A. crappy customer service
B. incompetent
C. hasn't evolved with the times

5. Construction
A. need I say more

and all the other government agencies, and what do we always here from friends when they get jobs at these places. how great the pay is, benefits, vacation time, etc.

I feel Americans would have been and would be far more responsive to a new program such as Obama care, if he would have gone in and completely revamped and made some of our other government agencies more efficient and cost effective.

just my thoughts.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by TauCetixeta

Originally posted by stirling
The Canadian Health System has its flaws as well....
I have waited actually years for an MRI
I have waited many many months for surgery.....instances of people actually dying before they get needed treatment occur.......
The truth is that the doctors, the hospitals, the whole shebang has a maonopoly on the system...Its a closed hierarchy.
Medical treatent should be available to all......
No regardless to all.........
The doctors and health care workers i see and know have a pretty fine and comfy life style along with an unhurried and casual work place.....everything here happens at a snails pace...
Unused, for half the 24 hours, medical diagnosis machines lay idle...while the specialised operators sleep in comfort.
Meanwhile real people suffer unwarranted agonies while awaiting diagnoses that are slow enough in comming to possily kill you in the meanime....
NO Medical system is perfect.
But the goverment should be administering the med system and it should all be supported by taxes.
FURNISHED BY THE CORPORATIONS PROFITS!!!!!

A solution arrived in Canada a long time ago.

Medical Tourism

Fly to Texas for quick healthcare. Then fly home to Canada.

Oh yeah!!! Everyone NEEDS america and their pathetic PRIVATE healthcare system, don't they???

Its not just impatient and rich canadians coming to america for healthcare, but MANY AMERICANS going to canada, mexico, cuba, europe, because they can't afford exorbitant american fees.

A reasonable national healthcare system like one that exists EVERYWHERE would have solved 99% of the problems. But they keep telling people you have to wait for 3 months to see a doctor, which of course is usually gross exaggerations. Sometimes you do have to wait a long time but it is not the norm nor frequent. Just use one or two STRAWMANS and boom destroy national healthcare.

I hope you don't smoke, drink, have chronic health problems, are not too old, have a good steady job that will never lay you off or fire you. It must SUCK being out of luck like that, but many millions of americans know all too well. And I am not talking about curing untreatable diseases, since most private insurance companies have a 60 to 80 percent coverage. 100 percent is non-existant or completly unaffordable. Nevermind dental care which is also a big problem for some folks.

Do you mean like all of the European
Countries that are broke?
Like ENgland, where the wait for medical
Care is up to two year's?
Typical socialist mind, something for nothing
Like the poster whos talking bout all of
The "extra"money coming in, just where
Do you think this "money " will come from?
People will not be spending it elsewhere
AND if they are out of work?
Frer health care, no extra "money".
What are they teaching in schools these
Days?
Certainly not the law of unintended
Consequences

deficit by seven tenths of 1% of GDP, or roughly $6.2 trillion over the next 75 years

Statistically, that is irrelevant.

Leaving out the 75 years from your title is blatant misrepresentation.

reply to post by steven2977


What the hell are you babbling about?? Sorry, I am not good with reading poems, try regular posts with structured paragraphs...you know like sentences with punctuation and correct spelling. Thanks