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Should a permit be required to have babies?

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posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 12:47 PM
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reply to post by Unity_99
 


No one is saying they can`t have sex and give birth as a result of it. But all people have the responsibility to have the means be be financially able for their offspring, mentally stable enough to handle them, be in good health without being addicted to drugs or alcohol during pregnacy, and are stable enough to not make babies in order to saddle the welfare system.

The flaming continues in 3, 2, 1....




posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 12:47 PM
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The State is far too untrustworthy to empower it with a woman's natural choice. Women would be enslaved to the State, far too dependent upon it. Like others have said, education prior to, during, and after the prenatal stage is the only answer that I can think of.
On the problem of overpopulation, there may be no choice but to limit the amount of births to one child per woman throughout the entire world. Rich and poor alike.



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 12:48 PM
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I agree that there are people out there who are not fit to be parents but the idea of a “baby permit” would never work and is quite frankly a stupid idea.

Firstly that will mean that you are saying that the state has the power to decide who is fit to have a child, how many children can be had and it would have to lead to some form of enforcement which would have to include forcing abortions onto people, forcing them to use contraception or abstinence. All three are bad in one way or another.

Believe me I have seen my fair share of bad mummy’s and daddy’s who are still only baby’s they or they are big, boys and girls who have been taking nasty drugs and drinks. Yes they should not have kids but we can’t in any ethical way force them not to have a kid.

Who are we to say that a child is being raised right anyway, what might be the right way to bring up a child in one parents eyes could be seen a neglect by another.

So no, sorry, bad idea.



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 12:49 PM
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reply to post by danielsil18
 





The one reason I don't agree with freedom right now is because as you said, people have to be responsable. I many people lack responsability.


I actually said that freedom requires one to be responsible for ones actions, so why do you disagree with people being responsible for their own actions?

If they thought they were bad parents they would take it upon themselves to make themselves better parents and not look at an external source for guidance unless one is ignorant in the basic care for children. then it becomes their responsibility to learn the basics of caring for a baby.

However, education as it was brought up before is also quite vague, what cultural up bringing to teach?

With so many different cultural ways which all work one way or another, will getting this permit be like a degree in medicine with all the complexity involved?

Religion today (texts and institutions) has much say in how children are to be raised, do we first eradicate religion to implement this change, how will that go if its the case?



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by colin42
reply to post by Cynic
 



If this sounds too harsh, tough. I am tired of my rights as a taxpayer being trod upon at the whim of idiots.
I think that answers your post.

FYI Paying your taxes is not what gives you rights



Au contraire my freind, paying taxes gives more rights to those who do. Generally speaking taxpayers vote, welfare layabouts don`t. It does not give others the right to suck at the public teat just because they can. Time for a change.
And the flaming continues....



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by Chamberf=6
reply to post by danielsil18
 

Oral sex bans.


Watch your mouth!



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 01:02 PM
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reply to post by InhaleExhale
 


If they thought they were bad parents they would take it upon themselves to make themselves better parents and not look at an external source for guidance unless one is ignorant in the basic care for children. then it becomes their responsibility to learn the basics of caring for a baby.

Correct.
But many "bad parents" don't think they are...they are just repeating what was done to them, with no forethought in many cases.

As for the 7 billion thing - it's obvious that CULTURAL COMPETENCY is required. Many of my clients were from Central America - a different culture. I would not have been asked to tutor them if I hadn't had a previous college education in their culture as well as many years of working with them.

Obviously the particular culture's "best practices" would be the appropriate source for that culture's new parents.



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by InhaleExhale
 



Is this a joke,
....
Whats good supervision and who will perform it?

There are solutions, but not one that would work for all, so who decides who gets discriminated against?

No, it's not a joke. I was a parent educator for years; I also counseled Children and Families before that. I know what it takes to be a good parent. My two successful grown kids are evidence of that, as well as the kids I took care of as a nanny when mine were small.

How is EDUCATING PEOPLE discrimination? We aren't born knowing how to PARENT - it's a skill.
I educated myself with books, mentors, practice, research, and immersion into parenting techniques.
I've also presented at a national conference by the Prevent Child Abuse Association of the USA; where I was selected out of blind proposal judging (anonymous submissions to avoid nepotism) to do aI lecture on Brain Training and nurturing our youth depending on their temperaments, tastes, abilities, etc. Standing room only, with an ovation at the end, friend. Parenting is a skill. PERIOD. One can be great at it, or suck at it.

I have measurable OUTCOMES to back me up.

Unfortunately, crap parents raise kids who don't know how to be good parents. FORTUNATELY, there are people who know the 'best practice' theories as well as the history of the child-rearing fads and fashions that have come before.

You don't know what you're talking about.


edit on 26-2-2013 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)


Sure


We all have measurable outcomes to back us up,

Fortunately, many know the dangers of telling others how live, it seems your indoctrination and I praise you for your efforts if true, however what about a mother that had no mother, was abused, lived a terrible childhood with no education what so ever on whats good or bad parenting become the best Mum in the world?

It one talking responsibility for their selves, no education can teach that unless one takes the responsibility to learn what they don't know.

Your ego about you accomplishments (even saying you have successful children) indicates very little compassion and gives me the impression of a very judgmental person when other peoples kids are involved.

Hey thats just me, sorry if I offend not my intention, just a very heated subject.

We all want whats best for our children and their future, just varying ways of doing it.

Very similar to religion and paths to GOD.



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by Cynic

Originally posted by colin42
reply to post by Cynic
 



If this sounds too harsh, tough. I am tired of my rights as a taxpayer being trod upon at the whim of idiots.
I think that answers your post.

FYI Paying your taxes is not what gives you rights



Au contraire my freind, paying taxes gives more rights to those who do. Generally speaking taxpayers vote, welfare layabouts don`t. It does not give others the right to suck at the public teat just because they can. Time for a change.
And the flaming continues....
In that case my friend I pity you and your countrymen who do not live in the land of the free. Change it to the land of the fee.



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 01:14 PM
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reply to post by InhaleExhale
 



Your ego about you accomplishments (even saying you have successful children) indicates very little compassion and gives me the impression of a very judgmental person when other peoples kids are involved.

my EGO?

very little compassion?

Again, you don't know what you're talking about, and you don't know me.

If you don't mean to offend, don't be offensive, heated subject or not. Some people don't know how to be good parents in modern society, and that's simply all there is to it. I've counseled plenty of families who WANTED help, who came to me VOLUNTARILY for help, and thanked me for my help.

If you want to call that "ego", then, whatever.



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 01:31 PM
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I think I would not support it unless we are talking about abusive or unprepared parents, or severe inheritable conditions. However I completely understand the sentiment. We regulate massive amount of little things that are far, far less important than responsible reproduction.
edit on 26/2/13 by Maslo because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 02:00 PM
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It's absurd.
There were always good parents, and bad parents. Children were sold, exploited, abused in horrible ways, sacrificed, since the dawn of humanity. Today we have the best children protection and social laws in history.

It was never hard to have kids, people used to have 8-9 or more kids, and about half of them were surviving; today, on contrary, we have the advantage of birth control.
How in the world could someone restrict the basic human right of reproduction? Then what next? A permit to be allowed to live if you don't contribute enough to society's welfare?
Sure, if the target is A Brave New World, then that's the way to go.

Human society it never was and will never be perfect. Our goal should be a wiser society, more moderate and compassionate toward other human beings, a society based on human value, not monetary value. Instead we certainly develop into a mindless, irresponsible and greedy society of zombies, to be controlled and restricted in every aspect of their life.



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 02:02 PM
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Nature's answer for this phenomenon is called "natural selection". Mothers so derelict of duty would have failed to raise their young to an age where they themselves would have been capable of reproduction - in every species barring homo sapiens. When the human race is befallen by the dubious honor of a mother so foul, so confused, so totally lost in her own mind, they issue bank accounts and smartphones, hoping the offender will rehabilitate themselves by employing a combination of swearing, technology and sheer numbers so outlandish many wonder how a child so young could be mother to a child so old without losing a bet.

There's always a price to sustaining society. The difference between paying a little bit now, or paying in spades later, is the wrench. Well that, and the people who insist all can take all for free. I call that lot novacaine brains.



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by InhaleExhale
 



Your ego about you accomplishments (even saying you have successful children) indicates very little compassion and gives me the impression of a very judgmental person when other peoples kids are involved.

my EGO?

very little compassion?

Again, you don't know what you're talking about, and you don't know me.

If you don't mean to offend, don't be offensive, heated subject or not. Some people don't know how to be good parents in modern society, and that's simply all there is to it. I've counseled plenty of families who WANTED help, who came to me VOLUNTARILY for help, and thanked me for my help.

If you want to call that "ego", then, whatever.


You seem to miss that fact that only the child can decide whether their parent is bad or not at raising them once they have enough experience to make that judgement, and thats personal because some children will never realize or make that type of judgement even into adulthood.

In modern society there is so much diversity that what is bad and good is rather relative to the experience r.

Not to derail the thread. but when you refer to yourself 3 times in one sentence you have quite an ego.

If you find what I say offensive, sorry but they are your issues, i say it how i see it.

When helping the parents that came to you, how many times did you tell them what they were doing was wrong? Do you not have to be judgmental for what you do?

I used words which are very true to the subject matter yet you wish to look at them in a negative light.

True, I dont know you and I am wrong in many peoples eyes and right in may others.

There are no wrongs and rights if we are to look at this world wide.

Individual cultures maybe but to unify and implement some type of education program or licensing across the whole board wont work but let keep trying as progression is the key. debating ideas with possible solutions is the second step. If the first step of realizing the issue is forced on parents you/I say are bad then denial will come to play as well.

Take any other cultural issue bring it to another country and with enough time civility will fail where it once flourished.

Racism plays a big role with many of the Ills in society today



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 02:16 PM
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I have always been an advocate of the idea.

The people who are saying "yes, good idea in theory but no thanks, far too nanny state" would be appalled if people could legally care for children without first having to pass some sort of aptitude test and be appropriately certificated.

In Britain, anyone who wants to work with children or vulnerable adults first has to have a CRB check to establish that they don't have a criminal record in this area.

That's the first thing.

Then you have to show you have positive experience and training in said areas.

Well, it's just the same thing for people having babies of their own. Why should it make any difference what your biological relationship is to the child? It shouldn't.

The police ought to be promoting this idea anyway, as it's the logical endgame of crime prevention; ergo, preventing citizens from becoming criminalised in the first place.



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoinWho are we to say that a child is being raised right anyway, what might be the right way to bring up a child in one parents eyes could be seen a neglect by another.


Yep! I've been told directly that I am "neglecting" my children by not having television in the house regardless of my citation of a variety of studies that indicate that it iss a brain rotter that can have a negative effect on a child's state of mind and that the exposure to television advertising geared towards children uses child psychology in order to create a permanent consumer. Nope nope, most people think I'm whacked for such a thing. If the idea of good parenting is already based on normative beliefs and not factual evidenced based study, then yeah, it could pose some problems....



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 02:50 PM
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reply to post by InhaleExhale
 


You seem to miss that fact that only the child can decide whether their parent is bad or not at raising them once they have enough experience to make that judgement, and thats personal because some children will never realize or make that type of judgement even into adulthood.

Because it's not a fact. The child CAN'T know when they are very young... they have nothing to compare it to. But adults can discern whether a child is growing and learning on schedule (scientifically acquired knowledge).

An older child who realizes there are other ways of living - from exposure to the outside, IF THEY GET ANY - can begin to see that what goes on at home isn't "normal." An adult child or youth can decide that their parents are not good at it, and make a decision to learn to do better........but that doesn't always happen, and when it doesn't, the kid will treat the new baby just like parents treated them.

It's about education, and community. We are able to see when "something's wrong" in the children of our communities. It's our job to do something about it when something's wrong. Teach the parent what happens with different approaches. Educating.



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by WhiteAlice
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 



You ever feel like we're a form of parasite or invasive species? lol



I'll certainly say that in watching The Matrix, I've considered the monologue by Agent Smith about humans amounting to a 'virus'. Of course, it's just a movie ...but the logic isn't purely fictional, is it? We do tend to enter a new area, rape it for everything it can give, then move on to a new spot when it's dead behind us.

Err.... Sometimes I try not to think on philosophy too hard. It leads to bad places, doesn't it? I'm thinking of taking the Environment Ethics class next semester, BTW. I'm not at all sure what to expect, but it sounds interesting. Kinda like Geography sounded interesting and I've found it to be one of my favorite classes yet.


Who says College can't be fun?



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 03:17 PM
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Should a permit be required to have babies

I say absolutely not. But at the same time .. I admit that when I see clips of Springer or Maury ... I wish there was a law requiring it. But no ... no permits ....



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by danielsil18
I just think it's way to easy to have children in this days.


As to any other point in the history of Man? Was there some evolutionary leap that mutated us into extraordinary baby-making machines? Some clarification on this might help with your argument as there are many factors that have led to what you are claiming, not just an oversimplification of human-nature.




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