Should a permit be required to have babies?

Originally posted by danielsil18

Originally posted by redoubt
reply to post by danielsil18

 

Childbirth is an act of nature... just like going pee, etc. We aren't born with a lot of instincts... which explains diapers and scraped knees. But... I'd rather trust human nature, as faulty as it may be, than some bloated bureaucracy when it comes to reproduction.

But would you trust profesionals who know how to raise a child? No one teaches us how to be parents, it's just instincts and experience passed down from our parents. But what happens when many don't know and are actually immature?

There are protitutes that get pregnant on purpose because they get paid more when they sell their body when pregnant. After the baby is born who knows where they send them. The prostitutes get pregnant again and start making more money.

I just think it's way to easy to have children in this days.

It's always been easy to have kids... just as it has always been easy to get married. The problem starts when you get into the parenthood thing or to a divorce court. The situation calls for time and caring before action. There is responsibility that we assume upon ourselves the moment we decide to be a mommy or a daddy. Of course, that's another thing that is highly disrespected these days.

No one wants to assume personal responsibility for anything... so we fall back on the nanny state to wipe our butts throughout life. We learn nothing. We grow none and when we die, we have achieved not a thing.

No thanks.

Originally posted by redoubt
reply to post by elouina

 

We tend to generalize that which we cannot explain. True, the science/art of parenting seems to be lost on the younger generation but... where does the fault lie? In humans themselves? Or in the society and culture that bred them?

Knee-jerking laws and ordinances won't fix anything. At best, it will merely cover a small portion from sight.

Surrendering liberty won't solve a thing. Leaving critical choices to others who are no better than you, will not make you a better person.

Maybe we should look a little deeper.

I agree that it should be looked deeper. It's not an easy topic but I think that allowing absolutely anyone have and raise children in not good for society.

reply to post by WhiteAlice

I was really surprised to find out about the declining population rate. Years ago, I was, as a part of cultural geography, taught about doubling time, fertility rates, crude birth/death rates, and whatnot. Overpopulation was a huge issue. Now it's a huge issue in some countries but not so much in other countries or the opposite problem exists--depopulation. Go figure, eh?

I'd seen your post but hadn't commented directly. I'm in geography at the moment for my Gen. Ed requirements in college and it's been an interesting thing to learn. First, learning what college level geography means was a bit of a shock...lol. It's a lot more than maps and where capitals are located, eh?

Second shock though was the population figures. You're right that birth rates in the United States and Europe, among others, are in decline. In fact, I recently had to write something for the class with explanation and sourced justification for causes in that decline.

At the same time though, declining birth rates are not the case in other areas of the world and particularly, outside the "Western" and/or "Developed" world. Unfortunately for population numbers, those in the lower levels of development are starting with numbers that SO badly outpaced to populations in the West that I don't think our decline will be near enough to offset their increase. Exponential growth is a downright disturbing thing to see play out.

Originally posted by InhaleExhale
reply to post by danielsil18

 

Your better future is your neighbors worse future, how do you resolve the issue of perception?

What you like might not be liked by all, how does one make all like what you like, its been done many times in history, its called fear.

Create a fear of brim future so as to control the present, how can one be certain their outlook of a brim future is correct?


Too many issues when more control is being implemented, look at our wonderful societies of today, One power tells another what is good or not, they disagree, one thing leads to another and these powers have created war that they will rarely suffer and frequently profit from.

It's true that others will not see what I see. Maybe more power is not the answer. But something needs to be done. Maybe more education could be the answer.

reply to post by wildtimes


I also agree that education could be the key. Maybe permits are not a good idea because they could be abused. But something needs to be done. Not just letting kids be raised by anyone.

Originally posted by danielsil18
reply to post by elouina

 

I don't agree that people like me are ruining the country, I think bad parents raising children with a bad future are one of the many ruining this country.

I don't think freedom will solve many things right now.

How are you making it better?

Are you a parent? are you a good parent or a bad parent?

If you think freedom wont solve many things then maybe you should try experiencing freedom, but beware as one must take responsibility for themselves if they wish to experience freedom, can you do that, can you take responsibility for your actions, do you know how far your actions travel and how many they might effect?

Most of humanity have no idea what freedom is, freedom is responsibility over oneself.

Most turn to any authority they can when in strife be it their church, their local politician, the police, their doctor so many more.

Humanity will never take responsibility for its actions as that would almost be suicide.

Being a parent is not just about being able to pass a test

Becoming a criminal is not just about where you come from or what your parents were like

Who wants an homogenised, low fat sanitised life?

Originally posted by redhorse
reply to post by danielsil18

 

Because that is the risk we take to live in a free society.

Every civilization in recorded human history is DEFINED by the choices made regarding this inevitable struggle between free-will and happiness of the individual vs. social order. Nearly every single time, when the hammer falls on the side of Order at the sake of freewill the society not only becomes cruel, but it stagnates--economically, intellectually, productively--all aspects are affected. However, when individuals are allowed to pursue happiness and wealth, societies prosper, again in all aspects. There are a few exceptions, but they are few.

For your opening video of one really bad mom, (and probably lousy human being), I will raise you the Nazi eugenices program. Look into that, and see just what it is that you are REALLY proposing here.

Im not contemplating that we shouldn't have free will, just that there needs to be more control on who can raise kids. Maybe a permit is not the answer but it's way to easy to have a baby. But Im also not going to the extreme of Nazi eugenices. I believe people has the right to do whatever they want. But a limit has to be there when a baby's future is included.

Originally posted by InhaleExhale
reply to post by elouina

 

How are you making it better?

Are you a parent? are you a good parent or a bad parent?

If you think freedom wont solve many things then maybe you should try experiencing freedom, but beware as one must take responsibility for themselves if they wish to experience freedom, can you do that, can you take responsibility for your actions, do you know how far your actions travel and how many they might effect?

Most of humanity have no idea what freedom is, freedom is responsibility over oneself.

Most turn to any authority they can when in strife be it their church, their local politician, the police, their doctor so many more.

Humanity will never take responsibility for its actions as that would almost be suicide.

Well Im going to study to be a Medical Doctor, so I might make it a bit better by helping people. Im not a parent yet.

The one reason I don't agree with freedom right now is because as you said, people have to be responsable. I many people lack responsability.

Originally posted by colin42
Being a parent is not just about being able to pass a test

Becoming a criminal is not just about where you come from or what your parents were like

Who wants an homogenised, low fat sanitised life?

I agree that a parent is not just about a test and criminals is not just about where you come from or how your parents were. But the majority of times it has to be how your life started.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


lol, I went through that same shock. However, it was fascinating. Some of the things that I learned from cultural geography have been some of the most useful things I've ever learned. It's good stuff if you have the option to take that one.

I agree that the rates for developing countries, especially India (2.59 and a big population to boot!), are cause for some concern. Could also explain emigration rates from that portion of the world. The thing about fertility rates for countries in Africa, it gets very, very complex. For one thing, there is a much higher mortality rate in the area plus the land is not suitable for large populations. It has some of the lowest sustainable populations per acre in the world (except, obviously, the far north and south). It's really the reason why Africa always seems to be starving. I was recently in an environmental ethics class though and there was an interesting new theory in regards to world population. The gist of it was that the population would continue to grow slightly overall until it reached around 9.2 billion and then, plateau. So overall still--slow growth. It's still a significant problem however as many of the resources on our planet are finite. Throw that fact into the mix and we could be looking at diminishing resources available for a growing population.

You ever feel like we're a form of parasite or invasive species? lol

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by InhaleExhale

 

There is no solution that can be implemented that wont be discriminating against or demoralizing an individual or a group.

Yes, there is.
EDUCATION in parenting. BEFORE puberty. Or at the very minimum, IMMEDIATELY COMMENCING during pregnancy, along with prenatal medical care.

If everyone knew the basics of parenting from the time they were children, and had access to birth control and good quality supervision, it would work.

Is this a joke,

Education you say, do you read some the claims and what is used to back those claims on this site and you think education will work.

Look at orbital mechanics, many here have trouble understanding it and that's why every few months a new comet or passing comet will be nibiru or there about, when people refuse to learn or preconceived beliefs clash with the new educational material being presented where are we left in the same predicament just with a slightly different tune playing.

It all come back to perception when you say good quality supervision,

Whats good supervision and who will perform it?

There are solutions, but not one that would work for all, so who decides who gets discriminated against?

You, me, our lying politician, I hope my point makes sense, and I am looking for solutions but none that will work for all, if you can find one I will bow down to you like one would to GOD because such an accomplishment would be Godly in my eyes, to get it right for all 7 billion of us would be godly would it not and the first time humanity would/could unite.

in a round-about way...

the marriage license is a 'Permit' to have babies, in that the authorities require blood tests which would point out couples that are too close genetically... to have children which would be more greatly prone to birth defects...

Therefore....by default, ammounting to a 'permit' to have babies
but the social norm has changed to where more than 50% of procreation is not screened by a marriage (& blood test) sequence

reply to post by InhaleExhale

Is this a joke,
....
Whats good supervision and who will perform it?

There are solutions, but not one that would work for all, so who decides who gets discriminated against?

No, it's not a joke. I was a parent educator for years; I also counseled Children and Families before that. I know what it takes to be a good parent. My two successful grown kids are evidence of that, as well as the kids I took care of as a nanny when mine were small.

How is EDUCATING PEOPLE discrimination? We aren't born knowing how to PARENT - it's a skill.
I educated myself with books, mentors, practice, research, and immersion into parenting techniques.
I've also presented at a national conference by the Prevent Child Abuse Association of the USA; where I was selected out of blind proposal judging (anonymous submissions to avoid nepotism) to do aI lecture on Brain Training and nurturing our youth depending on their temperaments, tastes, abilities, etc. Standing room only, with an ovation at the end, friend. Parenting is a skill. PERIOD. One can be great at it, or suck at it.

I have measurable OUTCOMES to back me up.

Unfortunately, crap parents raise kids who don't know how to be good parents. FORTUNATELY, there are people who know the 'best practice' theories as well as the history of the child-rearing fads and fashions that have come before.

You don't know what you're talking about.

You are either for freedom or against freedom.. Sometimes when you give humans freedom, they won't make decisions you agree with. It doesn't take away their freedom. The problem is, No one has true freedom anymore.

There needs to be some form of control put in place. The saddest part here is that twits like her are able to reproduce at will and do a serious number on their kids, perpetuating the idiocy and irresponsibility of their own lives.

1) Parenting class prior to birth with test on completion, if failed, take the baby at birth and send out for adoption, no parental contact.

2) Means test, can he/she/they afford the child, if no, take the baby at birth and send out for adoption, no parental contact.

3) I.Q. test, iif lower than normal society, take the baby at birth and send out for adoption, no parental contact.

If this sounds too harsh, tough. I am tired of my rights as a taxpayer being trod upon at the whim of idiots.

Flame away,.......

Originally posted by St Udio
in a round-about way...

the marriage license is a 'Permit' to have babies, in that the authorities require blood tests which would point out couples that are too close genetically... to have children which would be more greatly prone to birth defects...

Therefore....by default, ammounting to a 'permit' to have babies
but the social norm has changed to where more than 50% of procreation is not screened by a marriage (& blood test) sequence

They don't anymore--at least not according to this cheesily designed marriage law site: usmarriagelaws.com... I looked for it because I didn't recall a blood test being required when I obtained a marriage license aeons ago. So, no screening for the majority of states anymore for any close genetics or being prone to birth defects. However, prenatal screening of a fetus (through amniocentesis) or the parent for birth defect does occur. Saying too close genetically would be prone to birth defects isn't quite so true either. The Navajo tribe has one of the most stringent definitions of incest (basically, incest equals marrying someone who shares your primary or secondary clan regardless of whether there is no obvious blood relation--iow, someone could seem to be wholly unrelated and it would still be incest to marry them). Despite this, the Navajo tribe is currently facing a quasi-epidemic of a very rare genetic disorder called xeroderma pigmentosum (aka XP) where even the extreme definition of incest by the tribe is no longer effective at preventing the disorder. Most genetic defects are not due to close relationship but the fact that both parents happen to be carriers.

NO. And it would be illegal, faicism and treason to infringe on infinite inalienable rights. So citizens arrests would be needed to be given to anyone who asks, along with a real in their face, campaign to ensure they are not given any pensions, or benefits but indeed face justice.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
They could still reproduce without the permit.

The state should take eggs and sperm from everyone then sterilize everyone.

Then after a lengthy process of surveillance, testing, education, checking peoples employment, intelligence, prospects, the state would supply the couple with a test tube born embryo to carry to term.

Of course peoples positions in life may change so the state should also retain absolute abortion or conscription rights until the child is an adult.

All hail the glorious state!

You know what would happen with that theory......Every kid born would look like the guy running the program. That system has severe corruption possibilities.

reply to post by Cynic

If this sounds too harsh, tough. I am tired of my rights as a taxpayer being trod upon at the whim of idiots.

I think that answers your post.

FYI Paying your taxes is not what gives you rights