Euro debt crisis looms again as Italians defy EU austerity demands

UK Terrorgraph

The eurozone’s debt crisis strategy was in chaos on Monday night after anti-austerity parties appeared on track to win a majority of seats in the Italian parliament, vastly complicating efforts to forge a government able to carry through EU-imposed reforms.

In an earthquake result, the Five Star protest movement of comedian Beppe Grillo looked likely to emerge as the biggest single party in the lower house. The scourge of bankers and corrupt elites, Mr Grillo has campaigned for a return to the lira and a restructuring of Italy’s €1.9 trillion (£1.64 trillion) public debt.

The conservative bloc of ex-premier Silvio Berlusconi looked poised to win the senate, coming back from the political grave with vows to rip up the EU’s austerity plans and push through tax cuts to pull Italy out of deep slump.

“The majority of Italians have clearly voted against the Brussels consensus. That is a damning indictment,” said Mats Persson from Open Europe.

“This election is close to being the worst-case scenario for the markets. If there is one wild card in the European pack willing to do anything, it is Silvio Berlusconi, and he is sitting on the biggest barrel of gunpowder in Europe,” said Mr Jenkins.

“Italy is big enough to blow up the whole eurozone. That means Italy’s leader can take a tough line in the pyschological game with Germany. The question is what markets will do. The Italian debt auction on Wednesday will be very interesting to watch.”

Output contracted by 2.1pc last year, and is expected to fall 1.4pc this year. The economy will have shrunk by almost a tenth from its peak by 2014. The youth jobless rate has reached 37pc. By any measure, it has become a depression.

So Italians have voted against EU imposed austerity (can anyone really blame them?). It appears governments forming in both houses of parliaments are anti-austerity as well with Beppe Grillo threatening a return to the Lira currency according to the article.

So what do ATSers think? Does this election outcome pose a threat to the Eurozone as the article suggests? A possible reinvigoration of the Euro debt crisis?

The economics have only worsened since the crisis abated anyway, so it's really not like it ever ended anyway. Perhaps a return of volatile markets and soaring borrowing costs will really wreak havoc across Europe this year if Italy becomes the thorn in the side of the EU austerity architects.

The methods of Austerity are crap.
The way to bailout banks with enormous amounts of money is crap.

Yet, for our politicians (hello, mrs chancellor!!) there is no other option available. Or so they say.

Really, this only leads to these things:

* Mayor parts of greek public holdings like ports or islands will be sold to foreigner.
* The gap between the countries with positive foreign commerce (selling more goods to foreigners than buying back) will widen.
* The people in affected states will grow desperate more and more.

My idea of the plan in the background is the following: Slavery. Not using that word. Using the governments of the affected states to sell anything useful or precious, like real estate or people's workforce for the cheapest possible price and cheaper. Using banks and their credit-system to keep anyone in those states under pressure.

What might cause a problem: the widening gap in foreign commerce. This inbalance might cause even countries with some remaining power to fail by becoming unable to get the money for their goods, therefore their industries going down the river, too.

Who wins?

Anyone who has enough money to diversify that money all over the globe, evading any noticable crash of some or the other country.

Italy the "thorn in the flesh" of the rest of the Eurozone?

Wonder what does the Vatican state/country have to say about..... AUSTERITY

Originally posted by atsci
Italy the "thorn in the flesh" of the rest of the Eurozone?

Wonder what does the Vatican state/country have to say about..... AUSTERITY

wont matter to them anyway, their a separate state to Italy and not under their control

They may be out of the news but the Greek people are about to lose their minds as well. There have been a number of bombings and other anti-austerity 'statements' made in recent weeks. It's only a matter of time. This whole privitize profits/socialize losses model of the banksters is starting to be seen for what it is and people ain't buying it.

Defy! Never give in!

The Euro was never designed to work. It was always monopoly money. Worthless paper. Those in the know cashed out early before its value plumeted. It was destined to fail. This was not a coincidence. It was designed to fail. That why some countries didn't wan't to join. They were not stupid. All of those countries crying now, could have just kept using the U.S. dollar. If it isin't broke don't try and fix it.

Originally posted by atsci
Italy the "thorn in the flesh" of the rest of the Eurozone?

Wonder what does the Vatican state/country have to say about..... AUSTERITY

The Vatican state was rumored to be vastly rich, many years ago a Vatican banker was found hanging under a London bridge, although he had died before he 'hanged himself', millions of Lira were missing, mostly likely still are!

reply to post by pikestaff


who was the banker? just wanted to know. Thanks.

reply to post by surrealist


well...horray to the Italian voters.... by not electing the ususl slate of clowns





Posted on Tuesday 26 February 2013 07.45 EST

No 3,334
Five Star Movement: is Italy having a laugh?

Comedian Beppe Grillo's general election success in Italy is no joke


link to very short, 1/2 page report (~200 words) ...www.guardian.co.uk...

... But Grillo is a real showman. In 2007, he organised the hugely successful "Vaffanculo Day" to protest against the country's rotten politics.

What does Vaffanculo mean? Er ... It's a sweary way of saying "go away".

actually the original 'day' was a less sanitized version for the public... it ammounted to a 'F-U' day toward all politicians...

---> That fact is made clear in the lower linked article in this post, thanks


i recall when we in America were tongue-in-cheek about the dark & diabolical slate of candidates for the Presidential Office AND the counter-culture (anti-extablishment). backlash crowd put up Pat Paulsen forPresident, himself a laid back comedian... just like Italian Beppe Grillo is today !!


Power to the People


www.opendemocracy.net...

The ROOT of the problem with Italy lays in its endermic CORRUPTION.

With or Without austerity, or growth strategies, as LONG as corruption is a way of Italian life, the masses and the young will only be SCREWED FOREVER.

Grillo is NOT kidding when he poked fun at both parties. He may be a comedienne, but at least he admits to it and bring pure entertainment in Italy's political circus. UNFORTUNATELY, the other 2 comic parties still pretend to act as perfect humans with no intention to end the corruption and buying of votes in place for the masses support to worthless economic policies as long as the ROOT problem is not courageously tackled.

It is one thing when a waiter waits for a few liras for tips so that he/she can feed his familly on his low pay, but quite another for a family company to pay a million dollars US to bribe a civil servant for a 20 million dollar public funded contract and gain a profit of 5 million dollars later with cutting corners and eliminating supposed 'free market' competitors.

My heart goes out fellow humans of the Italian nation. More years of only suffering and pain. Some say time heals, but equally, time makes one accept his/her fate and think this is 'how it is'.

Caesar, a great uncorrupted man of republic Rome whom sought to uplift it socially, politically and economically during his time and worked so hard for change with so much hurdles, would have wept at how his future generations are suffering now.

He, like the current day Italian masses, was betrayed not only Brutus, Cato and gang, but even by his nephew the triumvair who turned Ceasar's ideals upside down and started an Augustusian tyranny which in the end led to the demise of the greatest cvilisation on Earth then, after republican Caesar, just like any other great man who walked on our planet whom only sought to help mankind.

Betrayals...time and time again.... why???....can we not ever learn?....

I'm italian, and i'm living now on this...mess. For some part a...wonderfull mess. For some part a really terrible mess !
The Beppe Grillo's m5s (movimento 5 stelle - five stars movement) has the 25 % of votes. A lot of votes !
Here an english version of his (their ?) site :

www.beppegrillo.it...

Well, for the first time we have on parliament a lot of people who are out of corporate logics. Who specifically talks about corrution on italian politics and want to change that. And i think they are really sincere about it. A lot of young (the most) people and many women who worked for years on internet, discussing about free internet connections, new kind of energy, political partecipation of people to the national government.
So, the power is really feeling the breathe of people on his neck , in some way!

But, at the same time, almost as wrote by ZonWu on this post :

www.abovetopsecret.com...

they have not a coherent vision of what to do.

A the same time, while they talk about "direct/partecipated democracy", the structure of the movement is vertical. If someone of the elected says something that's not liked by Grillo, that person could be out of the movement.
And behind Grillo there is Gianroberto Casaleggio. An expert on marketing and communication, which tells Grillo what to do and how to do, for the most part !
Here a video in eglish about his philosophy.
Really interesting for a site like ATS !!! You must see it !!!

www.youtube.com...


I don't know. I'm really confused about all of this. But i know something big is happening.
You know, italy has been the cradle for a lot of things that later happened on other country.
From painting to music. From banks (from italian "banco" = "counter" - "work bench") to fascism !

We'll see what shall happen in the next months.

Sorry for my english