If God is perfect then....

How does being "perfect," which may I remind you is a HUMAN term that varies in meaning for different individuals, relate to God feeling or not feeling a particular thing towards humanity? You are attempting to initiate a philosophical argument but you fail miserably because your post actually contains no logic at all.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by mrperplexed

 

If I were a perfect God, yes. I would prove I exist.

Since HE is a perfect God... you WILL know he exists... Eventually...

Unfortunately God is not without a sense of Humour...

Hum, perfection, how does THE ONE AND ONLY acheive that when IT has so many other imperfections to perfect Before Expressing ITS Existance: Lets name just a handfull of them:

Historical Accuracy
The Human manipulation factors
Historical farces (war) resulting in I guess timely DEATHS
"Religiosity", Next new band right up there with "In Living Color" singing its bleeding heart out
The Pharma and Chemical Gods, needs being to be RE-Atlantisized
False God worship and or WORSHIP in any shape or form

If perfect finally I would implode before expressing this "YOU JUST MISSED ME; BECAUSE MY FUSE WAS TOO SHORT AND I ACCIDENTLY BLEW MYSELF UP (guess you are on your own).

reply to post by mrperplexed


sooo since when is having emotions make you unperfect??

He cared enough to make you... so why would he not care about other things pertaining to his creations??

Some people would argue that he does not care at all about his creations because the world is so effed up.

There are many diverse ways to crap on God. Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't

reply to post by vethumanbeing

Hum, perfection, how does THE ONE AND ONLY acheive that when IT has so many other imperfections to perfect.

There was nothing to achieve...

The things you listed are human issues... Not imperfections of God.

This might help you understand...

Originally posted by mrperplexed
WE give ourselves hope. WE make our lives beautiful, give ourselves and each other hope, wisdom and understanding.

There's your answer, think about it.

LittleD, great point. And I see your logic on idolatry actually. The thing is, how can I accept him "as is" when he has never proven to me that he even exists. I am not certain of my stance.. He may exist, He may not, but when he is touted to be "perfect", that puts parameters around him.

The fulfilled prophesies of God's Word is all the proof anyone should need. Christ was prophesied about throughout the entire old testament. His life fulfilled those prophesies.

And if he is indeed perfect, he wouldnt punish me for all of eternity for not believing in him. Me, his imperfect creation that he has shown no proof of existence to. I think it is a fair question considering my eternal damnation is on the line.

What makes you think that He will punish anyone for all eternity? The original text does not use the word eternity because the concept did not exist. The word used in Greek is (aion). Aion simply means an age or a length of time beyond our horizon of perception.

reply to post by mplsfitter539

What makes you think that He will punish anyone for all eternity? The original text does not use the word eternity because the concept did not exist. The word used in Greek is (aion). Aion simply means an age or a length of time beyond our horizon of perception.

Aha! About time somebody asked that question! When did I ever say that I think He will punish anyone for all eternity? If you go back and read you will see that I did not. Like I have mentioned before the holy writing have been translated, interpreted, censored, etc. many times over the centuries and mistakes and misinterpretations are a given. No matter what some may claim we can never be 100% sure of what any of the original texts said. A lot of people are sure that most will suffer eternal damnation in the afterlife, but there are others that believe differently. I can honestly say that I do not know for certain, but if you were to ask me to make an educated guess about it I don't think people who do not choose God would be tortured forever, but rather would either be forever separated from God in eternity(by choice) or possibly cease to exist at all- but that is only a guess, as none of us will no for sure until we go to meet our maker.

Originally posted by Glass

Originally posted by mrperplexed
WE give ourselves hope. WE make our lives beautiful, give ourselves and each other hope, wisdom and understanding.

There's your answer, think about it.

edit on 27/2/2013 by Glass because: (no reason given)

This actually made me stop and take pause.

Originally posted by mplsfitter539

LittleD, great point. And I see your logic on idolatry actually. The thing is, how can I accept him "as is" when he has never proven to me that he even exists. I am not certain of my stance.. He may exist, He may not, but when he is touted to be "perfect", that puts parameters around him.

The fulfilled prophesies of God's Word is all the proof anyone should need. Christ was prophesied about throughout the entire old testament. His life fulfilled those prophesies.

And if he is indeed perfect, he wouldnt punish me for all of eternity for not believing in him. Me, his imperfect creation that he has shown no proof of existence to. I think it is a fair question considering my eternal damnation is on the line.

What makes you think that He will punish anyone for all eternity? The original text does not use the word eternity because the concept did not exist. The word used in Greek is (aion). Aion simply means an age or a length of time beyond our horizon of perception.



I think Jews (an older religion) would disagree with your first statement.. And oh great.. Im not punished for eternity, just for an age longer than i can comprehend..much better.

A Christian, a Jew, and an atheist are standing in line to be executed during the French Revolution.

The Christian is first, and he lays down on the guillotine. Before the executioner pulls the lever he shouts, "My god will save me!". The lever is pulled, and the blade swooshes down, stopping just short of his neck. The executioner, believing a miracle has occurred, figures he can't kill this man and so sets him free.

The Jew lays down on the guillotine. Like the christian, he shouts, "My god will save me!". The lever is pulled, the blade falls, and once again it stops just short of his neck. The executioner, again, believes God is on this man's side, and lets him go.

Finally, the atheist lays down on the guillotine. He examines the guillotine, finds a rock in the gears, and says to the executioner, "Well here's your problem..."

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

Hum, perfection, how does THE ONE AND ONLY acheive that when IT has so many other imperfections to perfect.

There was nothing to achieve...

The things you listed are human issues... Not imperfections of God.

This might help you understand...

I know, I need reminding of this (one takes on the universe and the universe for some reason always has a bigger 2x4x8 to smack you with) I always carry a larger stick, concept to smite back with. Let me go take a peek into Pandoras Box; this will be interesting. Here is a problem for me, I free associate create so I go into the unknown territory blindfolded tied to the main mast with wax in my ears to not hear the sirens (usually).

Interesting you say OBE... you should read one of my earlier threads (linked)... I had one. And talk about what I saw.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by AQuestion

 

He did not define his concept of "God" at all other than to say that he would have no emotion. I cannot speak for Buddhists or Muslims, I have to respond with the God I believe in.

Islam believes in the same god. That's why it's also an Abrahamic religion. Different descriptions. Yes. Some the same. Just like the different descriptions in the differing canon from the different Christian denominations. Also of note: the word for 'god' in the Arabic translation of the Christian Bible is 'Allah'. It's just the word of their language.

Now if you disagree that's fine. I don't believe either are connected to divinity are therefore I don't believe in the 'proper one' or the 'correct interpretation' etc.

Buddhism it depends on the sect of Buddhism. Some there is no deity at all, in others there are. Some it's more or less psychological in nature, in others very much incorporate incorporeal realms of existence.

Dear Lucid Lunacy,

My apologies, I did not mean to disparage any other religion. I meant to point out that the person had not described what they thought God was like. I don't speak for other religious beliefs and do not attempt to do so and that is what I was pointing out.

reply to post by AQuestion


I know you didn't mean that My apologies then. I didn't intend to give that impression, I was just trying to be informative.

One of the biggest weaknesses in Humans is the way in which we allow our emotions to influence our decision-making and behaviour. Our decisions are usually based on what we think is "right" as opposed to what is best.

Emotions still remain a significant aspect of Creation and Love is perhaps the most powerful one of all. If a perfect God were to exist, it is unlikely He would allow his decisions/behaviour to be so heavily influenced by emotions as we do.

Perhaps this is the point the OP was making?

reply to post by Dark Ghost


One of our biggest strenghts is the way we let our emotions guide our decisions and behavior....

reply to post by mrperplexed

I think Jews (an older religion) would disagree with your first statement.

"The Jews" is actually newer than Christianity.
There were Judeans before, and those were the people of Judea, but Judaism is something that was formed by the Rabbinical council convened after the destruction of the temple and the fall of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 AD.
Before that, there was the temple cult, that supposedly followed the ordinances prescribed in their holy book, what Christians call the Old Testament.
But, other than that quibble, your point is well taken. Now there are places in the Gospels where it says, Jesus did such and such to fulfill prophecy, but usually it isn't even a prophecy but something else, and when it does quote actual prophecy, it is something extra-biblical, meaning not in the OT canon.
Paul, for example, never tries to support the validity of Jesus by mentioning prophecy, in fact he says those things were hidden from the prophets and a mystery only revealed after the fact. The real vindication of the reality of Jesus has to be evidenced by the lives of Christians and their righteousness.
There is false teachings that abound that Christians can not be righteous, but that is the work of Chris's enemy, Satan. If you think you are a Christian and don't exhibit the character of Christ, you are living a life of delusion and are bound for hell, no matter how much happy-talk you listen to being spouted off by so-called preachers, about how you have to be a sinner in a condition of forgiveness. The Bible will have none of it!

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by Dark Ghost

 

One of our biggest strenghts is the way we let our emotions guide our decisions and behavior....

edit on 28-2-2013 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)

No. Not really. The biggest strength is our capacity to let morals and logic guide our decision and behaviour. You don't need emotions to do that.

I think Jews (an older religion) would disagree with your first statement.. And oh great.. Im not punished for eternity, just for an age longer than i can comprehend..much better.

Good point! The word used in Hebrew was olam.

Olam (Hebrew) ‘Ōlām Ulom (Phoenician) [from ‘ālam to hide, conceal] Also oulom. Long duration, long past time, great antiquity, hence occasionally used for the future; again, the world. Parallel to the Gnostic Aeon, which signifies a time period, something secret and esoteric, and the world which exists in the time period; also parallels the Sanskrit kala. Sometimes mistranslated as eternity. Frequently used in the plural (‘olamin).

Another problem is the word punish or torment. Torment is translated from the word or concept of a "touchstone". A touchstone is used for testing the quality of precious metals. So now lets quantify this to say that some will go on to a time or period of further testing. I believe it will be a much more intense testing then what any of us now are experiencing but when it has served its purpose it will no longer be needed. All of God's testings are remedial meaning the test has a purpose to be achieved.

reply to post by mplsfitter539

The fulfilled prophesies of God's Word is all the proof anyone should need. Christ was prophesied about throughout the entire old testament. His life fulfilled those prophesies.

Fat lot of good it does us now, eh? Hundreds, thousands dying every day, but we don't care. A moldy tome with a questionable past and mounting evidence of plagiarism couldn't possibly be wrong.