After the Tribulation: The Pre-Tribulation Rapture Fraud Exposed - Documentary

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posted on Feb, 25 2013 @ 07:55 PM
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Originally posted by LazarusTsiyr
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


How are believers not part of the church?


Because people will come to faith when the bride is taken. Specifically the Jewish elect.


Also it seems like your suggestion that the Church is raptured based on the fact that they aren't mentioned prior to Chapter 3 is a bit of a stretch.


I said nothing of the sort. Chapters 2 and 3 were addressed to the churches of John's day.



That's hardly a concrete piece of evidence.


I never said what you wrote.




posted on Feb, 25 2013 @ 08:04 PM
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reply to post by six67seven
 


They can't see what the text is saying because they do not understand what Jesus means by, "you must be born again." By understanding the true meaning of baptism, the text is then clear. Baptism is our immersion into the water of life. We WILL be born again. Being caught up with Christ happens 1000 years from now. The tribulation happens between the time of Israel becoming a nation again and then end of that generation 72 years later. Tribulation will happen at the end of this generation. Since the next golden Jubilee is 2017, and the end of the generation is 2020, we can expect that tribulation will happen before 2020. Jesus said that those days would be shortened (Matthew 24). I expect 2017 will be then end of Tribulation. The key to this is knowing that Psalms 111-118 represent 2011 - 2018. 115 is the Antichrist and 118 is the gates of heaven opened again. These are the most important Psalms to the Hebrews (Hallel Psalms). There is a reason they memorize these psalms.

Isaiah 26

19 But your dead will live, Lord;
their bodies will rise—
let those who dwell in the dust
wake up and shout for joy—
your dew is like the dew of the morning;
the earth will give birth to her dead.
20 Go, my people, enter your rooms
and shut the doors behind you;
hide yourselves for a little while
until his wrath has passed by.
21 See, the Lord is coming out of his dwelling
to punish the people of the earth for their sins.
The earth will disclose the blood shed on it;
the earth will conceal its slain no longer.



posted on Feb, 25 2013 @ 08:06 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I misspoke. I meant AFTER, not prior to, chapter 3. You knew what I meant. But whatever.



posted on Feb, 25 2013 @ 08:21 PM
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Originally posted by six67seven
4) "The Bible Way to Heaven
> Admit you are a sinner
> Realize the penalty for your sin
> Believe that Jesus died, was buried and rose again for you
> Trust Christ alone as your saviour"


Just felt like taking number 4 and breaking it down a bit in my point of view (no, I didn't watch the indoctrination video...seen a billion before (give or take).)

1: Admit I am a sinner? How about instead, I admit I am currently a human, and tend to serve self more than serve others...but I am trying to get over that overall. What is sin? Well, that is perspective really. A big sin to me is to pretend out of fear...hense why faith doesn't suit me (and pretending faith for superstitious triggers would be a sin).

2) Penalty for my sin...well, that's consequences for actions. If I murder someone..I took a life, I made their family depressed, lowered my humanity, etc...To someone whom contemplates, that can be a heavy burden. Hell, I am still haunted by moments of me bullying in junior high school.

3) Zombies: Jesus died because (theoretically) he went against the religious establishment. That is all that is (arguably) true. the rest tends to fall into a bit of murky superstition...but even if it is true, it is either unconditional or its not. His last words were "forgive them, for they know not what they do"...basically he realized we are a bunch of dumbasses whom can't figure it out...so why would we suddenly change three days later? If the resurrection is true, and if his words hold truth..then everyone is good anyhow..blanket blessings regardless of our idiot selves that are unaware or too daft to accept what he says as truth.

4) Will trust myself as the person with the power to do right...and wrong. If I do something good, I don't thank god, nor do I curse the devil when I do something bad. The danger of placing blame for actions and fate on figures such as jesus and the like is just removing responsibility and blame for your actions. Prisons are filled with religious folks whom find it easier to have a god forgive them than fixing themselves and doing whats right.

Don't get me wrong. Its good to remove the weight of your actions now and then, but that should come through not thinking of God, but thinking of yourself and those you have wronged..and feeling empathy for them verses fear of a hell.

So ya...those 4 points..if I was a deity...and a cruel one at that..may be a test to reject what is clearly not higher teachings, but rather "corporate" teachings (corporate meaning church)
Because all 4 of those points require a church (middleman) to gain power in order for you to continue (think roman church).



posted on Feb, 25 2013 @ 08:33 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Off topic but I don't see how those 4 points require a formal church. It is good to have a home church but not a requirement for salvation.
edit on 2/25/13 by celticsea because: blank post



posted on Feb, 25 2013 @ 09:04 PM
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It always a stretch of interpretation to equate the "one taken and one left" to mean all these exact things.

A whole rapture scenario is never mentioned... at all. It is implied. Meaning men have decided today that this is what was meant by the words spoken by Jesus so long ago.

It so hard to find any reference anymore that just reprints what was said without the embellishment. This one comes close...

www.lastdaysmystery.info...



posted on Feb, 25 2013 @ 09:09 PM
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reply to post by intrptr
 


Thanks for the link. It helps to understand more when you go back to the original language.
edit on 2/25/13 by celticsea because: (no reason given)
edit on 2/25/13 by celticsea because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 12:26 AM
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Haven't watched the whole thing yet. But the first 30 min give some good reasons to there
not being a pre-trib rapture. I am going to finish it. If this is the case there are going to be a lot of shocked and unprepared Christians



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 01:13 AM
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Originally posted by LazarusTsiyr
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I misspoke. I meant AFTER, not prior to, chapter 3. You knew what I meant. But whatever.


I stopped assuming what people mean or are thinking long ago. And what I stated is correct. There isn't a mention of the ekklesia on Earth after chapter 4:1. When chapter 4 begins the church is present in heaven.



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 03:08 AM
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reply to post by six67seven
 


I would think that the historicity of Jesus, and the proof/lack-of concerning the existence of the Christian God would be very important elements to this discussion. I wonder why you say they are irrelevant. After all, without Jesus and God, the Tribulation, Rapture, and other events of the End Times really don't matter.

This whole thread is really just mental masturbation if the legitimacy of the claims is not being contended.

~ Wandering Scribe



posted on Feb, 27 2013 @ 12:42 AM
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Originally posted by intrptr
 
A whole rapture scenario is never mentioned... at all. It is implied. Meaning men have decided today that this is what was meant by the words spoken by Jesus so long ago.

Actually... It wasn't Jesus' words, but...


1 Thessalonians 4:16-18

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words.

And this is me. Encouraging you.


PS: actually, that "caught up" is where the word "rapture" came from in the first place. The Greek word "ἁρπαγησόμεθα" (harpagesometha) got turned into the Latin "rapturo" in the Vulgate version, which is where others got "rapture" from later.

PPS: actually, this might be a better link to study the Greek verb at. It shows all the in-context uses of harpazo and its conjugations throughout scripture.
edit on 2/27/2013 by Thought Provoker because: Incompleteness.



posted on Feb, 27 2013 @ 12:57 AM
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The Church doesn't go through the tribulation. There is no reason for it too. Instead, there are 100,000 sealed Jews that will spread the gospel. People will know the rapture has taken place but will curse God and take the mark of the beast because of their weakness. Many people will be saved during the tribulation but most of them will die for their conversion. Either through the natural disasters or execution.

The Anti-Christ and the false prophet will show signs and wonders and formulate a lie to explain the disappearance of the Church. For even the most elect of God's children would be deceived if so possible.


edit on 27-2-2013 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2013 @ 01:04 AM
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reply to post by milkyway12
 

Aha! So that's what Project Blue Beam is for... not to convince the world the Antichrist is Christ, but - all they have to do is put up a few holograms of motherships and "beams" sucking people up into them, and everyone else will think all those people got alien-abducted at once... "Save us from the evil aliens, Pope Peter, save us!!" "Okay, but I'll have to implant a chip in all of you to protect you from their transporter beams..."

Wow. "Devious" doesn't begin to describe these guys.



posted on Feb, 27 2013 @ 01:07 AM
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reply to post by Thought Provoker
 


Possibly. There will probably be both. UN-natural signs brought by demonic entities, and technological deception. I mean a golden statue of a bull will come to life and speak.things get crazy.



posted on Feb, 27 2013 @ 08:55 AM
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reply to post by six67seven
 

I'm afraid that, after watching all of that documentary, I'm going to have to issue a retraction on my previous post. Wellllll, partially. It's patently obvious from considering all scripture that this will be the timeline:
  • Antichrist revealed to the world via something "miraculous," like being resurrected from the dead. Most will think him Christ because of the miracles; this is where Blue Beam (operated by the False Prophet, of course) would come in handy for them.
  • Persecution and killing of Christians ("And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them") - this is "the tribulation" believers will have to endure.
  • Sixth Seal (darkened sun and moon, stars falling to earth, the heavens rolling up like a scroll, HUGE earthquake) ON "the day of his wrath," followed immediately by:
  • The Rapture of Christ's dead and those who survived the war against the saints (including everyone on Earth seeing Christ appear in the clouds "as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west").
  • One half-hour of silence; the calm before the storm. During the calm, angels will mark the 144,000 who will witness for Christ now that the others are gone. Or maybe the marking will happen just before the rapture; not exactly sure. But they're very close to each other.
  • And then everything from the 1st Trumpet onwards - this is "the wrath of God" that he will pour down on everyone "Left Behind."
Ol' AC isn't going to need Blue Beam to convince people the rapture was alien abductions. Everyone will know it was Jesus, and that they've had the wrong beliefs all along. It'll be too late for them. Non-Christians will already be "taking the Mark" before the rapture. Christians will be hated, hunted, persecuted, and would be all wiped out if not for the rapture. That's why the rapture will be done: "for the sake of the elect, those days will be shortened." Boy, this isn't going to be fun to live through... but I'll face it joyfully, knowing that it's almost over.

You know why the "pre-tribulation rapture" is so damaging? It makes people think they don't need to do things like stock up on food, or prepare in any way, because the rapture will happen before the bad stuff starts. I've always been such a person, thinking there was no reason to do any preparation, even though I've always felt the rapture would happen between the 6th and 7th Seals. But now... it's obvious that not preparing will mean you won't be able to buy so much as a breakfast taco for God only knows how long before that 6th Seal is cracked open. If I could, I'd move, right now, TODAY, to a deserted chunk of the Amazon and start farming it. But I can't leave family behind, and they can't move, so... here we'll stay, and just hope we can make it through together. My parents are both probably going to be raptured too. And they have stocked up lots of food, but not so much water. I'm digressing, but... I weep for the future, yet I yearn for it. And I wish this thread was getting more attention. Every Christian needs to know this stuff.

Can't thank you enough for that video, Mr. "six67seven." Odd how, just when we think our eyes see and our ears hear, we discover there's still room for them to open even more... what'll I learn next, I wonder...
edit on 2/27/2013 by Thought Provoker because: Details, details.



posted on Feb, 27 2013 @ 11:05 AM
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On the final day of the prophetic "Day of the Lord, a year for the recompenses of Zion" (Pentecost 2012 - Pentecost 2013) the 7th trumpet of Revelation will sound.

The 7th trumpet sounding is the first event to take place on Pentecost 2013, At that moment Jesus Christ will begin His return to the Earth to establish the Kingdom of God on Earth. Shortly after this approach begins, the ressurection of the 144,000 called out members of the Temple of God (Church of God, Body of Christ) to immortal spirit beings take place. They will become brothers and sisters with Christ as born again children of God and members of the God family called Elohim forever, first those that are dead and in the ground (Mary, Joseph, Moses, Aaron, David, Solomon, Elijah, Isiah, Daniel, the aposles, and any others that God personally worked with durnig the past 6000 years of mankinds self rule for the purpose of becoming the Kingdom of God on Earth) followed by those still alive (members of the Church of God at present that have been preparing for the Kingdom of God throughout this tribulation and were witnesses to the abomination of desolation that occured in 1994). Before Pentecost 2013, no one dwells in Heaven born of man except Jesus Christ, the first of the first fruits of salvation. The remainder of the firstfruits of salvation are the members of the Kingdom of God, the 144,000 individual minds that were molded and fashoined over a lifetime of spiritual growth to be able to be trusted by God to administer His governemnt over all the Earth.

The rest of humanity will come to know the true God of Creation soon, as God's plan for the next 1000 years is completely different then it has been for the last 6000. In the next few weeks/months leading up to Pentecost 2013, the world will see the manifestation of the trumpets of reveleation; as they sound, they will magnify God's true end time church and who God is working through. When this happens millions will turn to Almighty God and His son Jesus Christ in spirit and in truth, many will become humbled and contrite and earnestly seek God's eternal truth. God is about to call all of mankind rather then just those who would become the Kingdom of God and reign with Christ on Earth. For those who turn to God (repent = change how one thinks about something) and away from the false god they have been taught to follow in their worldly churches God will deliver them into the millenium; for those who do not and choose to hold on to false doctrine to honor a false god, they will die their first death.

But the first death is not the end of God's work in a human being, it just means you must live a second lilfe after the 1000 years have finished when God's plan focuses on the redeeming of all mankind that has ever lived and died on the Earth. It is the sencond death during that second life, if one still refuses to acknowledge that only God's way of life can result in everlasting peace, that results in a sentance which lasts forever, never to have life again. But by that time the mountains of evidence of the blessings of living God's way of life will be too insurmountable for the majority of mankind to turn away from. That is why God's plan was created the way it was. It is truely the only way to teach by experience to free moral agents (beings that can choose for themselves) that to choose God's way of living always results in blessings, and to choose any other way of life is to produce curses, that is the greatest lesson of the 6000 year age of mankind.

So to the OP, yes there is NO pre-tribulation rapture. There is one event that takes place on the day of Pentecost 2013, that results in exactly 144,000 individuals throughout the past 6000 years being ressurected to immortal spirit beings (like Jesus Christ is now) and joining Chrsit in removing the governemnts of mankind and establishing the Kingdom of God on Earth for 1000 years. The rest of mankind alive today will need to choose when God does finally reveal what is true from what is false (by the sounding of the trumpets and the magnification of His true Church) whether they are willing to admit "I am wrong, and God is right" or whether they believe "I can't be wrong, therefore God must be". God is going to deliver all of mankind from the bondage of this age, from the slavery to our own natural sin and into the age of God's way of life returning to all corners of the Earth for the first time since Adam and Eve ate the fruit determining for themselves that God was wrong and I am right.

We live at that time. The tribulation has been occuring this whole time, but God shortened the time of great suffering (WW3, nuclear exchange) because if He did not, no life would remain on Earth.

The mark (sign) of those who are delivered is in their foreheads (thoughts) and right hands (works).

"Let the keeping of my Sabbaths (7th day and annual Sabbaths) be a sign (mark) that you are my people and I am your God forever"

God Bless,



posted on Feb, 27 2013 @ 11:26 AM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Hence your wanting to pick and choose sin, sin is simple, it is what is described in the Bible, no more no less. Jesus died to erase your sins regardless of what you tnink is a major or minor one. The truth is that he died for your sin, accept him as lord, that he died for you and you will be forgiven.

Jesus didn't die because he was anti church, he believed in the church for it's purpose, he did not accept that man had to follow all of the Church laws, nor go through a priest to reach God. His message was simple, I am the way and the light, personal belief and commitment to following his/God's rules. It is very very simple.



posted on Feb, 27 2013 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by ElohimJD
 


I enjoy reading your writings, how do you explain that Jesus himself said that no man will know the hour?????



posted on Feb, 27 2013 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by DOLCOTT
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Hence your wanting to pick and choose sin, sin is simple, it is what is described in the Bible, no more no less.

No, the bible, in regards to sin, is a bit absurd. From eating shellfish, to cutting your beard, exposed backs of hands, women speaking in church, eating pork, working on the Sabbath, tattoo's, etc etc etc.

And of course nothing about slaver amongst other things that we know instinctually is wrong.

You suggest I pick and choose, and should just follow the bible in regards to what is sin..but I bet you ignore almost everything in there that is said is a sin, because you pick and choose perhaps far more than me.

If your going to suggest you follow something..then follow it. There are sacrifices to be made should you sin, or consider sinning...actual sacrifices..killing doves and oxen, etc..ceremonies that must be made.

The bible is either true or not...stop picking and choosing.

I simply decided the bible is not true...but my principles and general moral compass will guide me. And so far, it hasn't been too bad. I don't feel like a hypocrite most of all though since I don't suggest people follow a holy book, then not follow most of what the book says to begin with..yet pretend the stuff I don't follow doesn't matter.



posted on Feb, 27 2013 @ 12:17 PM
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reply to post by Thought Provoker
 

Thank you so much for that reply and attention to detail. I appreciate the link and discussion about the root meanings of ideas and passages in the bible.

The verse in Matthew I quoted about "one being taken and one left" was from Christ. Matthew 24's whole premise is about that. The temple being destroyed, etc. The twist that people put on it today is the "Rapture".

Matthew 24:40

Just like your quote from Thessalonians. When I look into that further I interpret that to refer to Judgment Day, not a rapture.

Further: The "caught up" (in the spirit) translations from root were fascinating. I am a more literal interpretation fan. The only thing I can think of that snatches people violently as described are modern weapons.

"one taken and the other left"
edit on 27-2-2013 by intrptr because: additional...





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