Help ATS with a contribution via PayPal:
learn more

I Can Believe the Bible and that the World is Older than 6K

page: 4
17
<< 1  2  3   >>

log in

join

posted on Feb, 27 2013 @ 01:28 PM
link   
Maybe this will help. Part of the issue is starting at midway through Gen 1, while missing the bigger picture of Genesis 1:1 – 2:4

Books of the Bible follow definite literary patterns that have to be taken into consideration before proper interpretation can be achieved.

Notice the structure of Gen 1:1 -Gen 2:4

Gen 1:1
1 “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.”

Day 1
Day 2
Day 3
Day 4
Day 5
Day 6
Day 7

Gen 2:4
“These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens.”

This is a literary device called an inclusio. It acts like book ends. Gen 1:1 - Gen2:4 open and close a passage and in doing so emphasize the points of the passage. The points of the passage is that God created, and that He created in a specific chronological order, and that everything he made was good.

This is important because Gen 2:5-Gen2:24 have no such inclusio and have a different emphasis. Gen1:1-Gen 2:4 set us a chronological framework for the events that happen in Gen2:5-2:24. Gen 2:5 the focus is not on telling WHEN things happened but setting up the scene for what happens in Chapter 3.

Gen 1:1-Gen2:4 clearly indicate that on the 6th day, literal 24hours periods as we know them, Man and Woman from Man were created. Then at the end of that period God rested and called that day the Seventh day. Which of course relates to the Sabbath rest in the 4th commandment, but that is another issue.

Bottom line, your contention that there is a time gap is not consistent with the chronology of Gen1:1-Gen2:4.




posted on Feb, 27 2013 @ 02:38 PM
link   
I have always wondered about the age of the age of the earth and how it could possibly fit into scripture. I see the creation account as a very quick brush over of information. I am not sure if this is due to the lack of importance to the writer, or loss of history and the best the writer can do is just summarize.

I do not think the earth is 6,000 years old. In fact I feel science and scripture support each other. It was not until I summarized the account backwards that it made more sense.


1. At the fall of mankind in Genesis 3:19 part of the curse is death. Death marks the human life cycle and span. Before this there was no physical death as we know it, thus a perfect creation, an extension of Heaven on the earth.

2. God created everything in six days (epochs) and rested on the seventh. Are we to believe that the serpent derailed creation immediately on the 7th or 8th day? Even if a day is as a thousand years, then this would have allowed for many generations. No day or amount of time is given for the fall. Thus Adam and Eve were probably in the garden for a very long time following God's instruction.

3. Adam and Eve were instructed to be fruitful and multiply. Although no account is given, there is no reason that generation upon generation of offspring could have been created. During the time of the Garden, this period marks perfection, longevity and possibly timeless life cycle.

4. Man was warned NOT to eat from the tree of knowledge. If so He would die (physical/spiritual). Thus there was no death in the garden as we know it.

5. It was not until the fourth epoch (day) of creation that there was a day/night 24 hour cycle as we know it. This would allow for an enormous period of time for the earth, moon stars and planets to coalesce and form. Genesis 1:14-19 states the beginning of what we know of days, months and years.

The earth and every thing in it was created in "7 epochs" translated as days in the Bible. Whether each Epoch was a thousand years as in 2 Peter 3:8 or was longer along the scale of ten thousand or hundred thousand years we don't know.

For me, I am comfortable in the age of the earth of 4.5 billion give or take a few billion. What I am hung up on is Noah's Flood. Did it happen when they scholars say? Was it world Wide? I have not been able to see timelines that support such a flood event, unless science, archaeology and dating is way way off.



posted on Feb, 27 2013 @ 04:05 PM
link   

Originally posted by miner49r
I have always wondered about the age of the age of the earth and how it could possibly fit into scripture. I see the creation account as a very quick brush over of information. I am not sure if this is due to the lack of importance to the writer, or loss of history and the best the writer can do is just summarize.

I do not think the earth is 6,000 years old. In fact I feel science and scripture support each other. It was not until I summarized the account backwards that it made more sense.


1. At the fall of mankind in Genesis 3:19 part of the curse is death. Death marks the human life cycle and span. Before this there was no physical death as we know it, thus a perfect creation, an extension of Heaven on the earth.

2. God created everything in six days (epochs) and rested on the seventh. Are we to believe that the serpent derailed creation immediately on the 7th or 8th day? Even if a day is as a thousand years, then this would have allowed for many generations. No day or amount of time is given for the fall. Thus Adam and Eve were probably in the garden for a very long time following God's instruction.

3. Adam and Eve were instructed to be fruitful and multiply. Although no account is given, there is no reason that generation upon generation of offspring could have been created. During the time of the Garden, this period marks perfection, longevity and possibly timeless life cycle.

4. Man was warned NOT to eat from the tree of knowledge. If so He would die (physical/spiritual). Thus there was no death in the garden as we know it.

5. It was not until the fourth epoch (day) of creation that there was a day/night 24 hour cycle as we know it. This would allow for an enormous period of time for the earth, moon stars and planets to coalesce and form. Genesis 1:14-19 states the beginning of what we know of days, months and years.

The earth and every thing in it was created in "7 epochs" translated as days in the Bible. Whether each Epoch was a thousand years as in 2 Peter 3:8 or was longer along the scale of ten thousand or hundred thousand years we don't know.

For me, I am comfortable in the age of the earth of 4.5 billion give or take a few billion. What I am hung up on is Noah's Flood. Did it happen when they scholars say? Was it world Wide? I have not been able to see timelines that support such a flood event, unless science, archaeology and dating is way way off.


Your substitution of the word epoch for day is called eisegesis. Instead of taking the meaning of the text from the text, you have injected your meaning into the text. Specifically to align with your belief that the Bible supports the theory of evolution.

You also ignored my whole post which clearly points against reading Genesis from Chapter 3 backward.

The reality is that the Bible does not, and cannot be made to support the theory of evolution. Any so called Christian who tries to do so is neither a good scientist or theologian.

What has to be understood is that when God created he did not make babies. Adam and Eve where fully adult humans, the animals were in their fully adult state. The sun, the stars, the even the light from distant galaxies was already here, even though they are far away. So the earth, and the universe, already had an appearance of age because it was created in a fully 'adult' state.

If anyone wants to know more about the good scientific work done to show the absurdity of evoltuion go to www.creation.com



posted on Feb, 27 2013 @ 04:32 PM
link   
The Bible never says the world is 6K years old. Never. That figure was derived from counting up the genealogies in the Bible by several people, including Arch Bushop James Ussher of Artmagh, Ireland, who narrowed the date to October 23rd at 9 or 10;00 o'clock in the morning.

Of course the whole thing is completely ridiculous. All you have to do is count the number of layers in sedimentary rocks or glacial varves, deposited yearly, to get far beyond 6K, But believers don't care about such things. They will have their delusional fantasy, by God, no matter what anyone says.



posted on Feb, 27 2013 @ 05:12 PM
link   
reply to post by DanZek
 


First off, let me say it is a pitiful thing when a thread here turns into boxing match. It happens all to frequently. There is NOTHING in the TOS that prevents an individual from posting their own experience or opinion. Trolling and flaming others is highly frowned upon here in this community.

I sir, do not appreciate your cander. That being said, allow me to correct several of your warrentless attacks. In the future, please be more conversational rather than confrontational.



Your substitution of the word epoch for day is called eisegesis. Instead of taking the meaning of the text from the text, you have injected your meaning into the text.


You are guilty of eisegesis as well. The word "epoch" is fully viable and supportive. There were no "days" or 24 hour period, weeks, or months until the fourth "day" of creation. Time as we define it simply did not exist. Open your Bible and read Genesis 1:14-19


Specifically to align with your belief that the Bible supports the theory of evolution.



I never mentioned, conveyed, nor suggested any validity or belief in evolution or Darwinism. I did and do in fact endorse an "old Earth" belief.



You also ignored my whole post which clearly points against reading Genesis from Chapter 3 backward.



Yes I did... entirely. A testimony, account, or conveyance should be supportive of it's self both forwards and backwards and render the same meaning.


We both agree Adam and Eve were fully created as adults in their prime.


As far as the earth, solar system, and universe being created in an "adult form" I think it is possible and even probable given Genesis 1:14-19 allows for an undefined amount of time prior to a 24 hour solar day. The same as there is an undefined amount of time vs. the amount of work to be done in the garden before the fall.
edit on 27-2-2013 by miner49r because: spelling error



posted on Feb, 27 2013 @ 05:26 PM
link   
I believe the Bible has value. I also believe other 'holy' books have value. These books are vestiges of the wisdom handed down throughout the centuries by others who had limited knowledge about the earth and the universe.



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 05:02 AM
link   
Well someone caused the big bang

It couldn't have been stewie farting lol



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 05:18 AM
link   
reply to post by hisshadow
 



It couldn't have been stewie farting lol

Prove it wasn't.

Seriously prove it.

It's a bizarre claim. Yet no more than the religious claims.

Why do some beliefs get immunity to such scrutiny?
edit on 28-2-2013 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 11:52 AM
link   

Originally posted by miner49r
reply to post by DanZek
 


First off, let me say it is a pitiful thing when a thread here turns into boxing match. It happens all to frequently. There is NOTHING in the TOS that prevents an individual from posting their own experience or opinion. Trolling and flaming others is highly frowned upon here in this community.

I sir, do not appreciate your cander. That being said, allow me to correct several of your warrentless attacks. In the future, please be more conversational rather than confrontational.



Your substitution of the word epoch for day is called eisegesis. Instead of taking the meaning of the text from the text, you have injected your meaning into the text.


You are guilty of eisegesis as well. The word "epoch" is fully viable and supportive. There were no "days" or 24 hour period, weeks, or months until the fourth "day" of creation. Time as we define it simply did not exist. Open your Bible and read Genesis 1:14-19


Specifically to align with your belief that the Bible supports the theory of evolution.



I never mentioned, conveyed, nor suggested any validity or belief in evolution or Darwinism. I did and do in fact endorse an "old Earth" belief.



You also ignored my whole post which clearly points against reading Genesis from Chapter 3 backward.



Yes I did... entirely. A testimony, account, or conveyance should be supportive of it's self both forwards and backwards and render the same meaning.


We both agree Adam and Eve were fully created as adults in their prime.


As far as the earth, solar system, and universe being created in an "adult form" I think it is possible and even probable given Genesis 1:14-19 allows for an undefined amount of time prior to a 24 hour solar day. The same as there is an undefined amount of time vs. the amount of work to be done in the garden before the fall.
edit on 27-2-2013 by miner49r because: spelling error


I will tell you what I don’t appreciate. I don’t appreciate you calling my refutation of your points trolling. That’s not trolling, that refuting. I also don’t appreciate hypocrisy, you don’t appreciate my candor but it’s ok for you to give me your candor? So now who is trolling?

Here is the bottom line.

You plainy said you ingored my previous post. Instead of giving evidence to disprove my assetion you simply dismissed it. That shows that you cannot disprove what I've said and so it still stands.

It is easy to tell that the word DAY means a 24 hour period. At the end of every creation event the phrase “There was evening and there was morning, a first [second] [third ect..] day.” This is called repetition, a literary device used in Hebrew literature to emphasise an important point. That point is that everything was accomplished in and evening and morning, a literal 24 hour period.

The writer of Genesis meant the reader to understand that.

God is the creator
Everything that exits was created
It was all created in phases encompassing a literal 24 hours
Everything that was created was created without blemish or corruption [repetition of the word ‘good’].

Those are the hard facts of the case.



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 12:13 PM
link   

Originally posted by schuyler
The Bible never says the world is 6K years old. Never. That figure was derived from counting up the genealogies in the Bible by several people, including Arch Bushop James Ussher of Artmagh, Ireland, who narrowed the date to October 23rd at 9 or 10;00 o'clock in the morning.

Of course the whole thing is completely ridiculous. All you have to do is count the number of layers in sedimentary rocks or glacial varves, deposited yearly, to get far beyond 6K, But believers don't care about such things. They will have their delusional fantasy, by God, no matter what anyone says.


In part, you are quite correct. It never explicitly says how old the earth is. However counting the generations does give one a ballpark of 6000 years.

However just using the word sediment in a senctence is not proof. What is it about sendiments that prove that the earth and life on it is millions of years old?

By the way your statment can easily be turned against you.

"Atheists will have their delusional fantasy, by evolution, no matter what the evidence says"

It is meant only to inflame and brings no additional knowlege to the table.



posted on Feb, 28 2013 @ 09:07 PM
link   
reply to post by DanZek
 


Danzek I simply will not carry this on with you. If you want to continue this then send me a U2U. We can battle, discuss, and argue the finer points there. As I said before, FAR too many threads turn into all out fights here on ATS.

New members often come here fired up and ready make a big splash for themselves. unfortunately that causes more damage and discourse than open discussion. There is no hypocrisy in my reply. I simply corrected a few of the inaccuracies of your refutation.


Out of respect for the OP and this thread, may I suggest we take a sidebar.


I have read and re-read your post(s) several times. If I have ignored or dismissed what you had to say, it was not for a lack of reading.

In an absolute dogmatic interrpetation, Yes... I fully understand you. In taking a dogmatic approach it then raises quesitons of the next major event... the Flood. But, that is a totally different topic.
edit on 28-2-2013 by miner49r because: (no reason given)





new topics

top topics



 
17
<< 1  2  3   >>

log in

join