Most civilized humans in history did not utilize the wheel.

And the most interesting part is that they held it as the most sacred of symbols, Hence the medicine wheel.








The peoples of the americas of course knew what the wheel could do for them in terms of transportation and agriculture, but they chose to forgo it. Perhaps they knew that the sacrifices made in the process would force them to drop that part of their culture that allowed them to live sustainably on this continent for twenty thousand years while not leaving any sort of negative impact for future generations.

There are theories that some cultures depleted the local resources of timber etc., perhaps this it true, but was the somewhat small size of the communities and the close relationship with earth the factor that helped them move on and allow that particular space the time it needed to regrow?













www.indianlegend.com...

According to the prophecy, after seven generations of living in close contact with the Europeans, the Onkwehonwe would see the day when the elm trees would die. The prophecy said that animals would be born strange and deformed, their limbs twisted out of shape. Huge stone monsters would tear open the face of the earth. The rivers would burn aflame. The air would burn the eyes of man. According to the prophecy of the Seventh Generation the Onkwehonwe would see the day when birds would fall from the sky, the fish would die in the water, and man would grow ashamed of the way that he had treated his mother and provider, the Earth.

Life was slow for People of the Americas, they lived under the sky and held most sacred the earth and her inhabitants. This perspective gave them some insight about what kind of impact the Europeans would have on the land. Yet, somehow they had already learned these lessons or had the foresight to know the outcome that would eventually take place if the community did not take care of the land around it.

The sacred wheel, was a symbol of the organic connection between the people and the elements of nature. They lived for future generations. They filled their lives with the beauty and wonders of story telling, dreams and the works of creation. They lived by a code of honor and had the most healthy form of government known in history. Their tools were efficient, their path was light upon the earth and they left little trace of their existence in the surrounding environment.









We should take a step back and try and indoctrinate some of these peoples lifestyle and philosophy into our lives today. Technology may have it's benefits, but it needs to be utilized only for the benefit of future generations. We need to learn to gauge the consequences of harvesting our resources before we utilize technology for this purpose, then we may be able to use the same technology to put more back in, and nurture those same resources back to good health.

Our planet and the life on it is one finite unit, everything that we do to effect the unseen hidden parts will eventually come to effect the future of our children. The American Natives knew this and treaded so lightly on their world that they forgo even the benefits of the simple wheel. They realized the organic connection between all things and lived accordingly with more glory and life than we can imagine in todays manufactured culture.




Folks, it's time to slow down and enjoy the wind, water and local delights that nature has provided us with. Spend more than a little time enjoying yourself under the sky. Exploit the free things that life has to offer. Try and spend your weekends outside, save your money. Learn to process your own food, clothing and tools, gather them from your local surroundings. Walk instead of driving, or better yet go out and invest in a solar powered horse!

There is a group of people that are utilizing some of the older traditional ways. They have gatherings called rendezvous and they offer a wealth of information and methods utilizing the older more highly efficient ways of the Native Americans as well as the settlers. Find your local rendezvous and go out and see what it's all about. You may find a cheap, informative alternative to the weekend tradition.

www.rendezvousohio.com...

www.smoke-thunder.com...





Notice the wheel.


Thanks for reading. I hope you all enjoyed, and will do some good things this year to help give back.

Native Americans also did not have horses, prior to the arrival of the Spanish. They did (as you pointed out) conceptualize a 'wheel', as a means of understanding their universe, but they never 'invented a wheel' (involving wheels on axles, carts, etc.) as a mode of transportation. That had more to do with wheeled carts and conveyances being more of a hindrance than boon when you lack a suitable draft animal and live in terrain not conducive for wheeled transport. From heavily wooded swamplands in the northern hemisphere to rocky Andean highlands in the southern, the first real 'mass transportation' came with the horse, and still is for that type of terrain.

reply to post by Blackmarketeer


True, but they used the travois as opposed to adapting to the cart. For them adapting to use the cart and wheel meant adapting to a culture that was disconnected from the relations to mother earth. I'm sure that they despised the roads that were made by Europeans when they came across them.

The South Americans knew about carts and wheels and some children's toys have been found that had wheels in them. The Andean cultures had roads as well, yet they also declined to use carts, as far as I know.

reply to post by Quauhtli


Yes, here is one of those toys from S. America, it was made between 100 BC and 800 AD;


From Pre-columbian Wheels

The article there goes into a long discussion on why wheeled transport never took hold in the Americas, or sub-Saharan Africa, among other places.

Native Americans also never developed any appreciable metallurgy, and it wasn't until after advances in metallurgy were made in Europe that wheeled transports became reliable - iron bands to hold wheels together, bearings, even the copper and iron tools needed to cut, saw, and chisel the lumber for carts. A wooden wheel on a wooden axle wouldn't last a minute over any kind of terrain, let alone rough natural terrain. Wheeled carts for transport are part and parcel with metallurgy.

reply to post by Blackmarketeer









Perhaps they had the technology and know how to build carts using metallurgy and such, or even much more technologically advanced things, such as what shows in the process behind creating these great structures and buildings etc. I'm under the impression that they chose not to adapt the wheel into their every day lifestyle because of the inevitable consequences that would surely follow.

The wheel is just my example of how they chose to not utilize some of the benefits of technology, knowing the results. Some of the cultures on both of the American continents showed evidence of much higher technology than the simple wheel.

Is someone claiming that they didn't have the ability to cut wood? That's silly.

Good thread, OP.

reply to post by Quauhtli


I think they were more used to water transport than land. Boats figured highly long before the wheel almost everywhere.

Could not agree more with the theme of your post, the more diverse society is, the more robust. This current tendency to monoculture is only as strong as its weakest link.

reply to post by Quauhtli

while not leaving any sort of negative impact for future generations.

Wiping out all your mega fauna isnt exactly sustainable, nor very enlightened.

reply to post by Blackmarketeer


Yes, you have hit the nail on the head. Without a beast of burden, the need for a wheel is negated. In addition, the advances in metallurgy had not happened and even the big civlilisations like the Incas were at a bronze-age level.

To the OP. The indigenous populations of America were not “most civilized humans”, per se. Some of the things they got up to were pretty uncivilised. Certainly, the civilisations of South and Central America were just nasty.

Regards

reply to post by Tuttle


The Mega Fauna die offs have not yet been 100% attributed solely to Mans hunting behavior.

Disease could still be the main culprit for the die offs. Which man with his migration into previously uninhabited zones may have been a huge contributing factor though and possibly by bringing early livestock type animals or other possibly semi domesticated beasts which may have spread unknown germs in the regions may have been the real Coup De Gras so to speak...

Originally posted by Quauhtli
reply to post by Blackmarketeer

 

Perhaps they had the technology and know how to build carts using metallurgy and such, or even much more technologically advanced things, such as what shows in the process behind creating these great structures and buildings etc. I'm under the impression that they chose not to adapt the wheel into their every day lifestyle because of the inevitable consequences that would surely follow.

The wheel is just my example of how they chose to not utilize some of the benefits of technology, knowing the results. Some of the cultures on both of the American continents showed evidence of much higher technology than the simple wheel.

I quoted the whole post because obviously the Inca's are being discussed. The deal there is that there is ample poof of the Inca having knowledge of the wheel just choosing for some reason not to utilize the technology.


Grinding stone or wheel?


Image is from David Hatcher Childress's video on the quarries of Puma Punku and other similar sites.

We brought in the wheel and trashed half the country utilizing this technology. Maybe a previous generation that lived in North America was aware of the chaos the wheel created and they wanted no part of it. Maybe they left Europe and the Mediterranean to get away from the war and destruction that came with the wheel. Indians came from somewhere, they didn't just mysteriously appear in America. Ships could have brought them here to settle the lands around 3500 BC and they could have mined the ores and sent them back in return for spices and herbs they needed. With the great wars in Europe and the Mediterranean, the settlers location may have been hidden and the Atlantis destruction tale was created to protect the knowledge of where the copper, gold, and silvers were really coming from.

Necessity of lying may have helped stop the people in America from being found. They knew what happened in the Mediterranean countries and throughout Europe with the chariots and decided that wheels were dangerous to society. This may just be an idea, but it's intention is to open minds to possibilities that are out there. Did the story of the destruction of Atlantis need to be real?

I'm not really sure that makes a whole lot of sense? Is there any evidence of taboos against the wheel?

The fact is, without a beast of burden (such as the horse) the wheel is a pretty limited form of technology. The best you can do with it is essentially a wheel-barrow. No use whatsoever in war, and marginal use elsewhere.

Originally posted by rickymouse
We brought in the wheel and trashed half the country utilizing this technology. Maybe a previous generation that lived in North America was aware of the chaos the wheel created and they wanted no part of it. Maybe they left Europe and the Mediterranean to get away from the war and destruction that came with the wheel. Indians came from somewhere, they didn't just mysteriously appear in America. Ships could have brought them here to settle the lands around 3500 BC

All the genetic, and other evidence, puts the first settlers in America 10-14,000 years ago (it gets pushed back all the time) and tells us they were Asian - from Siberia - and that they most likely walked. Where do you get these European settlers from 3500 BC?

and they could have mined the ores and sent them back in return for spices and herbs they needed.

There is no evidence of a trade network with Europe, and considering the sea faring technology they had, it seems very unlikely.

With the great wars in Europe and the Mediterranean,

What great wars are you referring to? Apart from the usual internecine tribal war, Europe would not have any civilisations in 3500 BC (going with that date for the sake of argument) capable of "great war". It would be a mixture of neolithic farmers and hunter-gathers, and Europe would have been pretty sparsely populated.

Necessity of lying may have helped stop the people in America from being found. They knew what happened in the Mediterranean countries and throughout Europe with the chariots and decided that wheels were dangerous to society.

Chariots? They weren't developed by then, and were always a niche weapon of war anyway - they certainly weren't some weapon of mass destruction to be feared. For civilisations, the wheel was very useful in fighting wars, as it allowed supply lines to cross great distances and meant you could attack more than just your closest neighbour - the Roman empire could not have been built without it. However this was only when you had a beast of burden, such as the horse, to pull along your weapons and food. On the battlefield itself, the wheel wasn't much use - whereas horses certainly were.

Aside from this, native Americans seem to have no problem with war and killing each other - weapons such as the tomahawk are only used for killing fellow humans, and are no use for hunting. They were a warrior culture, and raiding, or being raided, would have been a part of everyday life for most tribes (just as it was in tribal societies the world over).

To the OP. The indigenous populations of America were not “most civilized humans”, per se. Some of the things they got up to were pretty uncivilised. Certainly, the civilisations of South and Central America were just nasty.

When I say that they were the most civilized, I guess that I am referring to the North American Indians. Mostly because of the wisdom that has come from their speeches and dealings with the white man.

www.californiaindianeducation.org...

Hold on to what is good,
Even if it's a handful of earth.

Hold on to what you believe,
Even if it's a tree that stands by itself.

Hold on to what you must do,
Even if it's a long way from here.

Hold on to your life,
Even if it's easier to let go.

Hold on to my hand,
Even if someday I'll be gone away from you.

Pueblo prayer

When all the trees have been cut down, when all the animals have been hunted, when all the waters are polluted, when all the air is unsafe to breathe, only then will you discover you cannot eat money.

When all the trees have been cut down, when all the animals have been hunted, when all the waters are polluted, when all the air is unsafe to breathe, only then will you discover you cannot eat money.

dictionary.reference.com...

civ·i·lized [siv-uh-lahyzd] Show IPA
adjective
1.
having an advanced or humane culture, society, etc.
2.
polite; well-bred; refined.
3.
of or pertaining to civilized people: The civilized world must fight ignorance.
4.
easy to manage or control; well organized or ordered: The car is quiet and civilized, even in sharp turns.

reply to post by SLAYER69

The Mega Fauna die offs have not yet been 100% attributed solely to Mans hunting behavior. Disease could still be the main culprit for the die offs. Which man with his migration into previously uninhabited zones may have been a huge contributing factor though and possibly by bringing early livestock type animals or other possibly semi domesticated beasts which may have spread unknown germs in the regions may have been the real Coup De Gras so to speak...

Yeah just like the disease the Europeans brought, just one big awkward misunderstanding, definitely NOTHING to do with all the murdering lol.

Originally posted by Tuttle
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

The Mega Fauna die offs have not yet been 100% attributed solely to Mans hunting behavior. Disease could still be the main culprit for the die offs. Which man with his migration into previously uninhabited zones may have been a huge contributing factor though and possibly by bringing early livestock type animals or other possibly semi domesticated beasts which may have spread unknown germs in the regions may have been the real Coup De Gras so to speak...

Yeah just like the disease the Europeans brought, just one big awkward misunderstanding, definitely NOTHING to do with all the murdering lol.

The two occurrences, man populating the Americas and megafauna dying off around the globe happening at the same time have only one thing in relation to one another. Climate change. And neither have anything to do with small pocks.

Most of the large animals that existed here when the first indians settled the americas only show up in the archeological digs of encampments very rarely. It is true that some of the hunting methods used were non sustainable and included whole herds, such as the driving mammoths over cliff edges. On the whole the hunting methods of indigenous people around the world were not of this nature. Most hunters tended to only kill male species when they had the ability to do so. As well, most hunts took place as far away from the camps as possible so as not to disrupt the flow of life close to home. This way of thinking showed wisdom in technique. Indigionous people were a resourceful lot and had not the desire nor the need to drive any species into extinction.

reply to post by FatherLukeDuke


There is evidence of copper from this area in the tools and shields of ancient civilizations of the Mediterranean area from BC. The people who proved the association of the copper metallurgy have to prove exactly how it got there or their evidence will continue to be discounted. There are people trying to find evidence of the trade routes. Someday this will be proven. I suppose you believe Columbus discovered America also.

reply to post by SLAYER69


That's not a wheel, that's stone money like they got in Yap


upload.wikimedia.org..." target='_blank' class='tabOff'/>

I think the Yap stone money was designed after ancient wheels.

The pre-Columbian Native Americans had a few pack animals. The Llama, alpaca and dog were all pack animals.

I suppose that people were the main pack animal though.

I suppose that people were the main pack animal though.

Yes, the whole point behind my post was that the Native Americans chose to live as lightly as possible, they had their artwork, clothing, hunting tools, dreams and friendly living techniques. They didn't need anything else. Of course they could have built a heavy lifestyle much like the Romans, but they chose not to.