Why was Jesus' Resurrection not convincing?, page 1


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reply posted on 24-2-2013 @ 08:02 AM by DISRAELI
reply to post by namine


In the Gospel accounts, the Resurrection was convincing enough to anybody who saw the resurrected Jesus.
That sets up a third option; the Resurrection WAS convincing, but only revealed directly to a small number of people.

In the second half of your post, you acknowledge this possibllity (thus exposing the false dilemma in the first half), but you argue that it was the wrong strategy,
I won't argue on that point; I leave it to God to work out for himself what strategy he wants to follow.


reply posted on 24-2-2013 @ 08:21 AM by wildtimes
reply to post by namine



It appears to me like there could only be two explanations for this. The resurrection happened in the most unconvincing way imaginable, except to his followers and whoever they managed to convince. Or, the resurrection never happened at all.

My belief is that he wasn't dead ... but nearly so....and was looked after, "spirited away" by his friends, who'd made a deal with Pilate to have his body.

He then was wrapped in the shroud, still alive, with balms and ointments. He recovered, showed up to his friends, still wounded, hungry and thirsty, and then he fled the area (wouldn't you, after surviving an assassination/execution attempt?) to safe haven in the East. There are loads of documents indicating he was, known as Issa, alive for another few decades.



reply posted on 24-2-2013 @ 08:34 AM by namine
reply to post by DISRAELI



It seems to me the Resurrection was rarely convincing to anyone who didn't believe him to begin with -- you would think these people needed convincing more than anyone else? So why appear to a select few who've already shown their loyalty towards you? The Resurrection could've been a lot more convincing than the way it allegedly happened, but I guess this all falls under the tried-and-tested 'God works in mysterious ways' bracket.



reply to post by wildtimes



That's an interesting theory, one I can't say I've come across before. Do you have any reliable sources for any of that?
edit on 24-2-2013 by namine because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 24-2-2013 @ 08:42 AM by VeniVidi
reply to post by namine



It has always confused me why Thomas had to see the nail holes in Jesus' hands before he would believe that it was Jesus.


Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."
JOHN 20:27
My thoughts are that Jesus was resurrected into a different body....


reply posted on 24-2-2013 @ 08:47 AM by wildtimes
reply to post by namine


That's an interesting theory, one I can't say I've come across before. Do you have any reliable sources for any of that?

Yes, my initial exposure to this theory was in evidence cited in the book
The Fifth Gospel: New Evidence from the Tibetan, Sanskrit, Arabic, Persian and Urdu Sources About the Historical Life of Jesus Christ After the Crucifixion - by Dr Fida Hassnain, a Sufi Mystic and impressively accoladed scholar, and Rabbi Dahan Levi

The Fifth Gospel presents some compelling new evidence about the life of Jesus which has been derived from a variety of sources in the East which are unknown to most Western scholars. By chance, one of the authors found, in 1965, a reference in Ladakh to the discovery of Buddhist scrolls about Jesus.

Since then, the authors have been examining evidence about the survival of Jesus Christ at the time of the crucifixion, and his subsequent travels to the East. The authors' main purpose in writing this book is to inform the West that "we in the East have some source material about the historical Jesus who lived on after the crucifixion....

This book was not written in one day, but is a result of many years' continued search for evidence," and provides research on some very compelling questions.


These two men have very adequate credentials. I see no reason for them to make this stuff up. But, since I wasn't there, I don't know. The book sources a LOT of other information and is a great jumping-off point for further research.


reply posted on 24-2-2013 @ 09:31 AM by LazarusTsiyr
reply to post by namine



Your statement is a false dichotomy. Meaning there are more than two options. Disraeli said it well.

Another thing to point out is to reveal it to everyone would basically take away everyone's free will. Furthermore, the Father is all-knowing. He knows from both omniscience and experience that revealing the full power of God will not convince everyone. Look at the example of the Pharaoh.

Even if the resurrected Messiah revealed himself to the entire population all at once, there would still be naysayers who would deny the truth regardless. They would allege all kind of madness to deny the truth.


reply posted on 24-2-2013 @ 09:34 AM by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Thought Provoker



As for why, I can only assume he didn't want every Tom, Dick, and Heathen having proof he'd risen from the dead for some reason. "They had their chance," perhaps...


That doesn't sound like the Jesus everyone talks about. Surely such a loving and considerate fellow would give everyone a second chance, after giving them the biggest first chance he could muster. It's always confused me why someone who was so definitely the son of "God", as well as "God" incarnate, would do so little to save the people he cared so much about. I mean, he really curtailed his powers. Not only did he restrict himself to a mere fraction of the world, but his miracles were child's play compared to what he could have done. It gives the impression that he wasn't taking it seriously. He could have had thousands and thousands there to watch his death, then risen and paraded in front of all of them. Why wait another 2,000 years to rule? If you care that much, don't disappear and give the people every reason to despise you.

I don't know, but there's so many things that don't add up, you'd need a crane to get out of the hole.


reply posted on 24-2-2013 @ 09:45 AM by jiggerj
Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to
post by namine


In the Gospel accounts, the Resurrection was convincing enough to anybody who saw the resurrected Jesus.
That sets up a third option; the Resurrection WAS convincing, but only revealed directly to a small number of people.

In the second half of your post, you acknowledge this possibllity (thus exposing the false dilemma in the first half), but you argue that it was the wrong strategy,
I won't argue on that point; I leave it to God to work out for himself what strategy he wants to follow.



Interesting. The question that comes to mind is: Did Jesus want to be known throughout the world or didn't he? If he wanted to be known and loved and worshiped by all then he would have done it while alive. Since this didn't happen (and going on the premise that his story is true) then apparently he only wanted a select few in the Middle East to know him. <---And that doesn't make any sense for a god.


reply posted on 24-2-2013 @ 09:51 AM by DISRAELI
reply to post by jiggerj


Again, the old tried-and-tested "If I were God, I would have done things differently" argument.
I'm not high enough in God's counsels to try to second-guess his plans and argue about what he should have been doing instead.
i'm satisfied with establishing the main point which concerns this thread;
The statement "The Resurrection was not convincing" is nonsense, because the people who saw the result were convinced.






edit on 24-2-2013 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 24-2-2013 @ 09:58 AM by Thought Provoker
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to
post by Thought Provoker

Surely such a loving and considerate fellow would give everyone a second chance, after giving them the biggest first chance he could muster.

Hence my use of "assume" and "perhaps." I'm not him; I can't know his reasons for anything he did or didn't do.

Not only did he restrict himself to a mere fraction of the world, but his miracles were child's play compared to what he could have done.

And yet, his followers number in the hundreds of millions even 2,000 years later. Amazing, huh... I guess he knew what he was doing.

He could have had thousands and thousands there to watch his death, then risen and paraded in front of all of them. Why wait another 2,000 years to rule?

Because that was the plan. If you add reincarnation into the mix (and the Bible definitely teaches reincarnation), even those who rejected him then, and those who weren't close enough to hear about him then, have had chances to accept him in a different life. That is everyone's second chance, and third, fourth, fifth... There's no hole we to be craned out of. Not a single bit of scripture doesn't make sense to an open mind. It's only unbelievable to those who don't want to believe it.


reply posted on 24-2-2013 @ 10:09 AM by DarknStormy
reply to post by DISRAELI



This isn't a denial of god, I am well aware that there is something much larger than any of us can comprehend but to give a man the status of God is ridiculous. Yes his teachings were great for humanity but there is to much doubt in my mind to believe that he arose from the dead and mysteriously disappeared into the sky unless he was a comet, space object, an alien or something. It is impossible otherwise.
edit on 24-2-2013 by DarknStormy because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 24-2-2013 @ 10:13 AM by DISRAELI
reply to post by DarknStormy


But all the possibilities mentioned on your list are those not involving the intervention of a Creator God.
If there IS a Creator God, then the Resurrection as described becomes possible.
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