Why are Americans deluded into thinking they could win a civil war?

reply to post by crystalbeing


Okay, so the cops on scene intentionally set the fire and the facts do bear that out. Who gave the order? Were the cops on scene seeking revenge against Dorner or were they afraid he'd be captured and the "truth" would come out.

Though this doesn't have anything to do with the topic on hand, I am interested in knowing why. The truth is an intentionally set fire, what is the rest of the story? What is the truth and what is propaganda? Are the elites burning those who have awoken to the truth?

Originally posted by Feltrick
reply to post by crystalbeing

 

Okay, so the cops on scene intentionally set the fire and the facts do bear that out. Who gave the order? Were the cops on scene seeking revenge against Dorner or were they afraid he'd be captured and the "truth" would come out.

Though this doesn't have anything to do with the topic on hand, I am interested in knowing why. The truth is an intentionally set fire, what is the rest of the story? What is the truth and what is propaganda? Are the elites burning those who have awoken to the truth?

You can't have a guy just go out shooting corrupt government officials who abused the system and the individual, because that sends the wrong message to the proles. If everybody went around shooting corrupt government officials pretty soon there wouldn't be any left, and they sure like their cushy do-nothing high salary jobs.

The cops aren't talking about who they took their orders from, but it's not hard to imagine that they came all the way from the top. After all, at Waco, the AG Janet Reno is said to have given the orders to "smoke 'em out" in so many words. Where there's smoke, there's fire.

Even if the American people lose a civil war the government loses too. A government isnt a government with out people to govern.

Originally posted by waitingforagamechanger
Even if the American people lose a civil war the government loses too. A government isnt a government with out people to govern.

They're busy importing the much more compliant Mexican citizenry in order to replace the headstrong rebellious Americans. After all, Mexicans are good Catholics and they have been trained for generations to know their place.

reply to post by sajuek


USA military had more might than the vietcong yet we pulled out. The USA had air superiority, chemical and bio weapons... yet they beat the USA. Not everyone was exactly battle hardened there. Unlike the OBESE americans they were on the other side of the spectrum being starved. Either extreme reduces your fighting capacity. However they were able to take on the whole might of the USA..

The USA currently wages war all over the globe with bases all over the globe. How can they fund those wars and fight at home if part of their population stop paying their taxes. The USA government would not be able to wage wars on that many fronts.

Many people loyal to the government would begin to defect due to the mistreatment of kin and a decline of their quality of life due to increased taxes to fight so many wars.

Military defections would happen if soldiers are not payed or simply because they do not want to fight their own country men.

There are many reasons why Americans can win against the government.

There are many factors that pay into a war. Not just military might. You are deluded if you think so. On paper vietnam should have been an easy win as have been so many other conflicts we have been in for years in the ME. The thought process you have that we have bigger better and longer lasting pointier sticks does not necessarily equate to victory.

The only thing that would happen with a civil war would be the destruction of the nation by allowing foreigners to enter into it to help with the conflict.

Just look at syria or any other recent civil war. The governments of those nations have fallen. What makes you think the USA would be any different.

Many nations allied to the USA are only so allied withthem simply because the USA is more powerful at the moment. Once the USA is no longer as powerful and they see it at a weakened point they will make their move.

We have plenty of enemies across the globe, I would expect cooperation between them and USA rebels.

Many sentiments on this board is that there is a problem with the american government and not the people. Both people in teh USA and other countries feel the same. I could see cooperation or even alliances occurring since they have a common enemy.

When will a civil war happen?? well it may not be with the current population. They could be too soft. Future ones who are hungry, angry and were indoctrinated by the ones who could talk the talk but not walk the walk could rise up to change things. maybe not militarily speaking as there is more than one way to undermine a country.

They will be able to do it by taking over education and social programs that will change the thinking of people over generations.. kinda how they have done it up until now.


I like how the second post right away had to crap on guns. Way to show your bias you twit

reply to post by sajuek


Sorry, but you give the government waaaay too much credit on this one. Do you really believe most of the government workers will fight against their own people? That's a "no".. The government would have to bring in foreign troops. We know our own land better than they, and we still have a few million "fit" men who would lay don their life to stop the enemy. The People will win. It may be a long and very rough road with many casualties, but we will come out on top.

reply to post by votan


The North Vietnamese Army (NVA) never defeated the US Military. The reason for the US withdrawal was political vice military. The NVA won the war of public opinion but never won a battle. TET was a military disaster but a political victory.

Originally posted by Feltrick
reply to post by votan

 

The North Vietnamese Army (NVA) never defeated the US Military. The reason for the US withdrawal was political vice military. The NVA won the war of public opinion but never won a battle. TET was a military disaster but a political victory.

Your assertion is at total odds with history. What about the fall of Saigon?

The USA lost despite an unprecedented assassination targeting civilians (Phoenix) and despite their superior equipment because when you attempt to take over a nation, you make yourself into an enemy of that nation's people.

This "USA didn't lose Nam" revisionism is not credible.

Originally posted by AndyMayhew
Perhaps no surprise then, that even today, some Americans want to impose their values on everyone else, and would instigate civil war if the majority disagree.

the "pro-gunners" are not the ones imposing their values. The changes that are being imposed are from the anti-gun side.

reply to post by MrBigDave


He knows that. Guns are part of the national culture and always have been. The change, as you said, comes from the anti-gun side, and while their excuse is always safety, the reality is that they know they can not implement their socialist utopia without disarming the nation first.

The OP assumes that the US Military would just "fall in line" and unilaterally attack its own citizens. I served my country for 8 years I can tell you WITH certainty that if that order was ever given, their would be revolts WITHIN the command and control of all 4 major branches.

Also understand this, the amount of ex-military FAR out number the amount of active duty and many of them are battle hardened from a decade worth of combat (iraq/afghanistan).

reply to post by sajuek


So in other words we should just bend over and take this a** whooping? Hell no, I won't have my basic liberties taken away. I don't even own a gun, let alone touched one, but I'm not giving away any of my rights.

Originally posted by strykr619
The OP assumes that the US Military would just "fall in line" and unilaterally attack its own citizens. I served my country for 8 years I can tell you WITH certainty that if that order was ever given, their would be revolts WITHIN the command and control of all 4 major branches.

Also understand this, the amount of ex-military FAR out number the amount of active duty and many of them are battle hardened from a decade worth of combat (iraq/afghanistan).

The OP is just on damage control, and has his orders too.

Originally posted by strykr619
The OP assumes that the US Military would just "fall in line" and unilaterally attack its own citizens. I served my country for 8 years I can tell you WITH certainty that if that order was ever given, their would be revolts WITHIN the command and control of all 4 major branches.

Also understand this, the amount of ex-military FAR out number the amount of active duty and many of them are battle hardened from a decade worth of combat (iraq/afghanistan).

Totally agreed. I'm shipping off to the Marine Corps next month and I'll be damned if I fire on my own people, the ones I've sworn to protect.

Soldiers are payed killers, they are trained to be cold and to follow every order given. I can assure most would not think twice about shooting some conspiracy nut with a gun.

Originally posted by HattoriHanzou

Originally posted by Feltrick
reply to post by votan

 

The North Vietnamese Army (NVA) never defeated the US Military. The reason for the US withdrawal was political vice military. The NVA won the war of public opinion but never won a battle. TET was a military disaster but a political victory.

Your assertion is at total odds with history. What about the fall of Saigon?

The USA lost despite an unprecedented assassination targeting civilians (Phoenix) and despite their superior equipment because when you attempt to take over a nation, you make yourself into an enemy of that nation's people.

This "USA didn't lose Nam" revisionism is not credible.

Saigon fell because the US was withdrawing it's forces at that point, leaving the Republic of Vietnam to defend itself against the communists. It's not revisionist, it's fact. The NVA never defeated the US Army, they succeeded in the court of public opinion. US involvement in Vietnam ended in August 1973 and Saigon fell in April 1975. The scenes show the US Embassy being evacuated. Come on, man!

When the citizens of the US turned against the war in Vietnam, the government was forced to withdraw. Read about it. In contrast, when the citizens turned against the war in Iraq, the government ignored it and continued.

You could very well see a situation where the U.N and / or NATO would be used if this was to happen.

The truth of the matter is that threads like these are nothing but a spider web. It's so easy to herd the sheople into their corral. ~$heopleNation

Originally posted by Arashikage

Originally posted by strykr619
The OP assumes that the US Military would just "fall in line" and unilaterally attack its own citizens. I served my country for 8 years I can tell you WITH certainty that if that order was ever given, their would be revolts WITHIN the command and control of all 4 major branches.

Also understand this, the amount of ex-military FAR out number the amount of active duty and many of them are battle hardened from a decade worth of combat (iraq/afghanistan).

Totally agreed. I'm shipping off to the Marine Corps next month and I'll be damned if I fire on my own people, the ones I've sworn to protect.

Oathkeepers for the win!

Somebody owes you a tall frosty mug of beer.

Originally posted by Cynicaleye
Soldiers are payed killers, they are trained to be cold and to follow every order given. I can assure most would not think twice about shooting some conspiracy nut with a gun.

Soldiers come in all varieties, and yes, their job is to destroy the enemy. This doesn't make them stupid animals. The real tragedy of soldiering is that they are used to pursue an elite agenda, but they don't get to decide which orders to follow and remain a soldier.

reply to post by sajuek


Let's say 40% of the military and 40% of the police in America do not agree to do all this "crazy" stuff that you suggested to their own people (most likely the percentage would be alot higher). Your only left with 1 million military personnel and however many cops.

300 million americans own guns that will defend their homes. Let's say 50% give up their guns...okay thats still over 100 million people with guns. Let's not forget the militias that were responsible for defending and creating this country.

Oh they will poison the water and the air....other countries such as Russia and China would be outraged at the US government and declare war. So you can scratch that off of them doing that, it just simply won't happen.

You must be one of them people that actually think we won the vietnam war...that is a prime example for you when people come together to fight for their survival. USA pulled out because they were going to loose that war.