Priests should be allowed to marry, says top Catholic

Originally posted by freedomSlave
Perhaps might help with with the child sex abuse problems they have .
If not then the vatican is just a safe haven for pedophiles .

Celebacy doesn't cause homosexuality.
Celebacy doesn't cause a person to become a pedophile.
Psychology 101. It simply doesn't work that way.

reply to post by winofiend


You mistake my post and the intent good sir. Quite frankly I am somewhat taken aback you don't know me better by now

reply to post by FlyersFan


Look at the history and origins of catholic beliefs and doctrines, just because the flock believes its doing what is right does not mean the Shepard didn't lead them astray.

There are far to many fallacies in catholic doctrine and tradition to list with out derailing this thread, I simply prefer any religion that claims to have a holy book actually follow it.

Originally posted by benrl
There are far to many fallacies in catholic doctrine and tradition to list with out derailing this thread,

That can be said of any religion out there. Be it Catholic or Baptist or Muslim or whatever.

I simply prefer any religion that claims to have a holy book actually follow it.

I prefer that people take a long hard look at the so called 'holy books'.

The Old Testament? Really? Do people really think Abraham was sane when he 'heard voices' telling him to murder his child and he was actually going to go through with it? And moses .. was he a good guy when he wiped out all of the enemy but told his troops they could keep the young virgin girls as their war booty sex toys? And Noahs Ark? If that really happened then there would be kangaroos and polar bears living on Mt. Ararat where th Ark supposedly landed. Obviously it didn't happen. etc etc

Ditto the other religions in the world that have 'holy books'.

Honestly, I'd like to see any religion that claims to have a holy book STOP following a lot of what is in them and instead focus on the spiritual parts of those books. The spiritual parts that are helpful for people ... and a lot of what is written in so called 'holy books' are NOT helpful ...

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by benrl
There are far to many fallacies in catholic doctrine and tradition to list with out derailing this thread,

That can be said of any religion out there. Be it Catholic or Baptist or Muslim or whatever.

I simply prefer any religion that claims to have a holy book actually follow it.

I prefer that people take a long hard look at the so called 'holy books'.

The Old Testament? Really? Do people really think Abraham was sane when he 'heard voices' telling him to murder his child and he was actually going to go through with it? And moses .. was he a good guy when he wiped out all of the enemy but told his troops they could keep the young virgin girls as their war booty sex toys? And Noahs Ark? If that really happened then there would be kangaroos and polar bears living on Mt. Ararat where th Ark supposedly landed. Obviously it didn't happen. etc etc

Ditto the other religions in the world that have 'holy books'.

Honestly, I'd like to see any religion that claims to have a holy book STOP following a lot of what is in them and instead focus on the spiritual parts of those books. The spiritual parts that are helpful for people ... and a lot of what is written in so called 'holy books' are NOT helpful ...

Never even thought to mention the OT, was just speaking on the overall clear manipulative nature of the catholic faith with its adherence and altering of doctrine in its history to make it better palatable at the time of its inception.

Which included celibate clergy when the holy book they base it on leaves the matter as open, even going so far as to say leaders should have a family to properly run a church (which is from paul and as the Catholics recognize Paul they should head that advice as valid as any of his other advice)

but if you want to take that angle your right than, you look at what the spiritual fruit bears and forget about their holy book.

any religion whose infallible head had any part in covering up or protecting child molesters should be torn to the ground no mater what holy book they follow, as spiritually itd just be the right thing to do.

Is this the same Cardinal Keith O'Brien who's been accused of interfering sexually with some young priests and teenage-priests-to-be ?

Surely not.

During RCIA classes, during the session on vocations, my priest rattled off all of the things that he is required to do in the course of the week -- apart from his one day off a week, he's on the clock pretty much all of the time, between daily Masses, meetings, counseling sessions with people of the Parish, studying, working on his daily sermons, preparing for and teaching a class in the Parish school, visiting people in the hospital, shut-ins, and so on. In addition, he's required to pray the Liturgy of the Hours numerous times throughout the day.

Following that, he said that if he was married, he would be a pretty neglectful husband and father, or he'd be a neglectful priest, and he'd prefer to be neither.

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reply to post by JohnnyAnonymous


Very cool, Johnny.

I hope that said discussion includes the observation that the Archbishop in question, Keith O'Brien, has resigned his position in the church, following allegations that he had made sexual advances to four priests in the 1980s (allegations made recently, but prior to O'Brien's "Priests should be allowed to marry" statement, so I don't know what, if any, connection there is between that statement and those accusations.)

Either way, he's gone.

Nevermind ... posted and didn't need to ...

The Catholic priesthood isn't a 'job' .. it's supposed to be a 'calling'.

If a potential priest looks at the priesthood and says that he won't be a priest unless he can get married, then he's looking at it like it's a job instead of a calling ... and either he isn't being called or he's being called and he's letting his own earthly desires get in the way.

A priest is a priest 24/7. It's not a 9-5 job. If a parishoner is dying in the middle of the night, the priest has to go to that parishoner to give extreme unction and final confession etc etc. The priest is supposed to be 'another christ'. The parishoners come first .. THEIR confession ... THEIR counseling ... THEIR needs ... THEIR sacraments .... THEIR issues ... NOT his kids soccer game or his wife's picnic. Priests wouldn't have time to take care of a family properly. The divorce rate would be through the roof. Priests are not protestant ministers .. they are Catholic priests. Big difference.

To those who want to argue that confession isn't necessary or isn't in scripture ... or that extreme unction isn't necessary or isn't in scripture ... etc etc ... I say this - YOUR interpretation of scripture doesn't matter. This is the Catholic faith and that is how they have interpreted scripture. For anyone to say that the church should be rid of confession or extreme unction or an unmarried priesthood based on THEIR interpretation of scripture, I say ... stop trying to protestantize the Catholic faith.

A married priesthood would not mean that there would be less pedophilia or sex crimes happening. Protestant churches and public schools allow their people to be married and they have the same sex predator problem. The public school problem is even bigger than the Catholic church problem in this area. Pedophiles and other sex criminals understand that churches and schools are prime hunting grounds.

Also, celebacy doesn't cause pedophilia or homosexuality. So anyone saying that a married priesthood would clear up those issues is wrong.

Catholic priests are married to the church, therefore they cannot marry. If that rule is revised, then how will they explain that to the civilly divorced and remarried Catholics who they have turned away from receiving sacraments?

It can be difficult to unravel the political chess game that is played, but there is another way of looking at this: It could be that he is heterosexual and has been set up.

He makes speeches critising homosexuality, which the Roman Church turns a blind eye to because it helps delude people into thinking that the Catholic religion is in agreement with him. He then makes public his view that threatens the homosexual haven of a male-only priesthood that would erode the progress of its secret, same-sex agenda - his view, probably internally known about for many years, is that priests should be able to have heterosexual sex. This is a speech that is unacceptable to those who really control that religion, and means he has to be neutralised.

So, it immediately results in homosexuals executing a long-standing threat to expose him for things they framed him for years before - possibly something that forced him into being a priest in the first place - in an attempt to make sure his heterosexual views have no influence on who the next Pope is, and to show other Cardinals what will happen to them if they don't vote for who homosexuals want. They want to make sure the next Pope is sympathetic to the homosexual desire to ultimately create a same-sex world, or at least in their pocket enough - also framed and blackmailed in other words - that he won't stand in their way.

You may be having an insight into the ruthless methods homosexuals use to wield power in the Roman Church and elsewhere.

reply to post by Trafalgar1805

It can be difficult to unravel the political chess game that is played, but there is another way of looking at this: It could be that he is heterosexual and has been set up.

A heterosexual priest is a natural target for women as well. Despite the taboo Catholic priests sometimes end up in sexual trysts that result in pregnancy. The church doesn't currently allow the priest to continue in his position as priest while supporting his new family. So gay priests are obviously easier to cover for when the unrealistic expectations of celibacy are considered.

Eastern Catholic priests can be married. It is the Latin Church that has the stipulation. It doesn't make sense.

reply to post by benrl


That is a valid interpretation, but not more so than the various teachings regarding celibacy by Paul and Jesus.

"Not all can accept this word, but only those to whom it is granted. Some are incapable of marriage because they were born so; some, because they were made so by others; some, because they have renounced marriage for the sake of the kingdom of God. Whoever can accept this ought to accept it" (Matt. 19:11–12)

Reasonable people can disagree on whether there is biblical support for either married or celibate clergy.

You might be interested to note that only the Latin Rite Catholics disallow married Priests and there are even exceptions to that.

Eric


Edit: Once again I've realized that I should read the whole thread before posting. It seems that other people have made my points for me.

Originally posted by benrl
And since we are talking Catholics than we must apply their own beliefs to their doctrines, they recognize paul yet their "Traditions" Contradict their bible which they recognize as divinely inspired and includes pauls teachings.

Which traditions are those?

Eric

Despite the fact that he has admitted the allegations, there is still another way of looking at this, and I alluded to it in my previous post on this subject. I wish I had been clearer.

So, it immediately results in homosexuals executing a long-standing threat to expose him for things they framed him for years before - possibly something that forced him into being a priest in the first place -

It is possible that he was forced into being a priest originally, by being framed and blackmailed when he was young. He was given a choice, which was to work for the Catholic Church because there aren't enough homosexuals around to run it, or spend decades in prison. Either way, homosexuals had aggressively invaded and ended his heterosexual experiences for this life.

After recently threatening to upset the homosexual haven of a same-sex priesthood, this homosexual mafia, which is called the Angelos, pull fabricated evidence out of one drawer inside a vault that holds millions of records on people - this is the highly aggressive way the Roman Church works - now tell him to admit to the accusations, despite them not being true, or spend the last years of his life in prison for what they framed him for decades before. This is because the timing of the recent allegations makes it look like he has been set up by homosexuals, and they don't like that - homosexuals like to look like victims while they plot the end of heterosexuality.

They will probably still put him in prison anyway, and threaten further sanctions should he withdraw his admission.

Let's look at the current situation: Homosexuals have secured their same-sex priesthood by removing from the Vatican his view that priests should be able to have heterosexual sex; further, they have invalidated his view, through making him look like a hypocrite; and homosexuals have been made to look like the victims in all this. It seems they've won this battle.

The truth won't be known this side of the Day of Judgement, but be in no doubt that homosexuals direct the Catholic Church in everything it does. The Church is a child of homosexuality, as are all religions, and their agenda is a same-sex, future world order. If you don't want to have same-sex relationships, stay away from the buggers.

Originally posted by Trafalgar1805
The truth won't be known this side of the Day of Judgement, but be in no doubt that homosexuals direct the Catholic Church in everything it does. The Church is a child of homosexuality, as are all religions, and their agenda is a same-sex, future world order. If you don't want to have same-sex relationships, stay away from the buggers.

Wow, that is one of the most ignorant, baseless and bigoted statements that I've seen on ATS in a long time, and given some of the stupidity posted here, that's saying a lot. Congratulations on your achievement.

Originally posted by Slichter
A heterosexual priest is a natural target for women as well. .

I personally know two priests who left the priesthood because of women.
And another who got the church secretary pregnant and left the priesthood.