Priests should be allowed to marry, says top Catholic

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posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 01:57 AM
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Cardinal Keith O'Brien states that a new Pope should consider allowing priests to no longer be celibate.


The most senior Catholic clergyman in Britain has suggested that priests should be able to marry and have sex.

Catholic priests have in fact been permitted to marry and have sex for longer in the Roman Catholic Church’s lifetime than they have been forbidden. It was only in the eleventh century that the laws insisting upon celibacy for all priests were officially formalised.

Anglican clergy who have defected to Rome have also been allowed to stay in marital relationships.

The Indepedent


It is my understanding that priests were stopped from having wives and children early in the Middle Ages to stop a priest's wealth from leaving the church when he died. There appears to be no theological reason for it.

Such a move could perhaps help to attract new people into the priesthood. The average age of a Catholic priest today is 63, 20 years older than in 1970.

Average Priest Age Now Nearly 20 Years Older Than 1970




posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 02:55 AM
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Originally posted by ollncasino
It is my understanding that priests were stopped from having wives and children early in the Middle Ages to stop a priest's wealth from leaving the church when he died. There appears to be no theological reason for it.

And there was also a danger that livings could become hereditary

No Biblical theological reason. The prejudice that celibacy is more "spiritual" than marriage is non-Biblical, and I suspect it of being borrowed from other religions in the very early days of the church.



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 03:02 AM
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reply to post by ollncasino
 


This is good in a non-religious sense. Bad in the religious one. This is an example of religion modernizing itself due to the cognitive dissonance of holding these archaic beliefs in the modern world.



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 03:12 AM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

This is good in a non-religious sense. Bad in the religious one. This is an example of religion modernizing itself due to the cognitive dissonance of holding these archaic beliefs in the modern world.


Priests used to be allowed to get married and have children. Apparently it was only in the 10th century that it was formally banned.



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 03:17 AM
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Hmmm.
it is hearsay,.. but.. arnt most priests gay?



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 03:27 AM
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Originally posted by Lil Drummerboy
Hmmm.
it is hearsay,.. but.. arnt most priests gay?


It would be a safe to assume that if a man decides to voluntarily become celibate (for the rest of his life) then he has 'issues' of some sort.





edit on 24-2-2013 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 03:41 AM
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The bible specifically says that a Leader of a church should be Married and mange his own family well.

Nuns and Priest being celibate is a pagan practice the church adopted to make the "roman" part of the church more comfortable as several of the religions of rome practiced it.


2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full[a] respect. 5

thats in 1 timothy.

Not only should they not be celibate, but they SHOULD have kids and be able to raise them well.
edit on 24-2-2013 by benrl because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 03:52 AM
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reply to post by ollncasino
 


Always wondered about this subject. I asked people on ATS once how long they have gone without sex and masturbation all of the men had been honest, some women on the other hand lied boldly claiming "years" within their sexual prime. One women claiming A-sexuality

I believe its a good practice for people to test willpower same with food and drink or vice. The problem is most people will avoid abstaining from all forms of sex but will instead do it with certain drinking and eating or vices "smoking". It helps to show us how truly human we are! how we lie to our self's. It also reinforces the mental ability to overcome ones own faults because if you can deprive yourself of your human needs without failing you can do just about anything. Gandhi went years at abstaining even having young beautiful women lie naked in his bed next to him while he slept just to test himself.

But I feel it must be something the person decides to do not out of fear or guilt but personal exploration. I think that was the intent of making priest abstain and I feel this will somehow hurt and help the church

to not be effected by sin you must steel your self to steel your self you must control yourself to control yourself you must test yourself

edit on 24-2-2013 by digital01anarchy because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 03:56 AM
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reply to post by DISRAELI
 

The prejudice that celibacy is more "spiritual" than marriage is non-Biblical, and I suspect it of being borrowed from other religions in the very early days of the church.


reply to post by benrl
 

The bible specifically says that a Leader of a church should be Married and mange his own family well.Nuns and Priest being celibate is a pagan practice the church adopted to make the "roman" part of the church more comfortable as several of the religions of rome practiced it.


For those who consider Paul a legitimate apostle, it IS Biblical.
Because Paul clearly implies celibacy is better and more spiritual than getting married in 1 Corinthians 7.
So it wasn't a "borrowed" practice.


Yes, it is good to abstain from sexual relations.But because there is so much sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman should have her own husband.
-1 Corinthians 7:1-2


An unmarried man can spend his time doing the Lord’s work and thinking how to please him. But a married man has to think about his earthly responsibilities and how to please his wife.
-1 Corinthians 7:32-33

- He is clearly saying being celibate allows a man to spend his time doing the Lords work.

But I wish everyone were single, just as I am. Yet each person has a special gift from God, of one kind or another. So I say to those who aren’t married and to widows—it’s better to stay unmarried, just as I am.
-1 Corinthians 7:7-8


If you have a wife, do not seek to end the marriage. If you do not have a wife, do not seek to get married.
-1 Corinthians 7:27


But if he has decided firmly not to marry and there is no urgency and he can control his passion, he does well not to marry.So the person who marries his fiancée does well, and the person who doesn’t marry does even better.
-1 Corinthians 7:37



edit on 24-2-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)
edit on 24-2-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 04:03 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Indeed you're correct. Paul advocated this strongly.

I will refrain from questioning Paul's connection to divinity in this discussion.

I will say that Biblically speaking it is sound.



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 04:07 AM
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reply to post by Lucid Lunacy
 



Paul advocated this strongly.

Yes he did.



I will refrain from questioning Paul's connection to divinity in this discussion.
I will say that Biblically speaking it is sound.



Me too. I will not discuss Pauls legitimacy as an apostle, because that is a different subject altogether. But celibacy is promoted as being "better" by the Bible (or at least Pauls chapters).



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 04:20 AM
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He has also been called back to the Vatican to answer charges of inapropriate sexual behaviour. Accusations made by other priests here in the UK. No doubt 'hard line' priests etc who disagree with his marriage stance.

It's breaking news on Sky TV so I'll go and find a link to back this up.
Rainbows
Jane



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 04:20 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


None of which addresses the female nun aspect which matches several roman religions that had female priestess who where to remain celibate for their god.

Nor the fact that the reason they took a suggestion that everyone (not just priest) should remain celibate by paul (which is weird) to apply to their priest.

And since we are talking Catholics than we must apply their own beliefs to their doctrines, they recognize paul yet their "Traditions" Contradict their bible which they recognize as divinely inspired and includes pauls teachings.



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 04:36 AM
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Well they should they are human with human impulses .

Perhaps might help with with the child sex abuse problems they have .

If not then the vatican is just a safe haven for pedophiles .

Actually I think for many centuries it was a safe haven for pedophiles and gay people .

Don't get me wrong There is nothing wrong with being gay , as they have been persecuted for so long it was or is a safe place for them to hide



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 04:52 AM
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reply to post by benrl
 


I was responding to your assertion that The bible specifically says that a Leader of a church should be Married and mange his own family well. I just showed you that the Bible doesn't "specifically" say that... and on the contrary, teaches that celibacy is preferable, (in certain verses.)

Apart from Pauls verses in 1 Corinthians 7, there is also this from Jesus...

12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.
-Matthew 19:11-12


Obviously he did not mean literally becoming eunuchs, but by being AS eunuchs... not being diverted by sex.

And then we read in revelations about the 144,000.
4 These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins.
-Revelations 17:4


My point being....the idea that celibacy is preferable is very much Biblical... and not some foreign influence, as you and Disraeli have asserted.



None of which addresses the female nun aspect which matches several roman religions that had female priestess who where to remain celibate for their god.
If you suspect celibacy came from Roman religions, then you should know that Roman influence on the Biblical faith started ever since Constantine made it the state religion. The Roman also organized the Council of Nicea which framed Christian theology as we know it,by votes... and not by what the Bible actually teaches. The Roman influence on Christianity is not just limited to the Catholic branch. But thats a different topic altogether.



they recognize paul yet their "Traditions" Contradict their bible which they recognize as divinely inspired and includes pauls teachings.

The Catholic practice of celibate priests shows they are following Pauls teachings... at least the part about how celibacy is preferable. Whether or not some Catholic priests are good at being celibate is a different issue. But the point is that celibacy being "better" is a biblical teaching.


edit on 24-2-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 04:54 AM
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The Catholic Church is not unique in it's practice of celibacy for it's priesthood etc - many religions throughout history have had celibate clergy.

To this day most Buddhist monks are celibate.

Just another reason to be suspicious of and distrust organised religion.



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 04:55 AM
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reply to post by freedomSlave
 


Perhaps might help with with the child sex abuse problems they have .

Doubt it. Not until these institutions fall. Also, Catholics are not the only ones by any means. They have the spotlight but many 'faiths' are guilty of this atrocity.


If not then the vatican is just a safe haven for pedophiles .

Yes it is a safe haven for it.



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 05:28 AM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by ollncasino
 


This is good in a non-religious sense. Bad in the religious one. This is an example of religion modernizing itself due to the cognitive dissonance of holding these archaic beliefs in the modern world.


Not so, it is not a heavenly edict that prohibits sex for the clergy. No words of god were spoken to proclaim this.

It was, as in all things religious, a man made edict to control the people..

And it just became the norm, priests and funny bunnies who like to wear the sexy priest outfit, are the only ones who suffer from it.



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 05:51 AM
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reply to post by angelchemuel
 


Here you go...the BBC report
www.bbc.co.uk...
Rainbows
Jane



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 05:57 AM
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Originally posted by ollncasino
It would be a safe to assume that if a man decides to voluntarily become celibate (for the rest of his life) then he has 'issues' of some sort.



Originally posted by benrl
The bible specifically says that a Leader of a church should be Married and mange his own family well.


Um ... NO to both of these. It is both scriptural and natural for people to be celebate in the service of God OR not to have sexual urges at all. I understand that, with all the commercials for viagara and all the sex-soaked TV shows and magazines, that people have sex on the brain nowadays. But the truth is that sex drives are different for different people. Not everyone wants to hump whatever comes along just for the sake of humping.


Originally posted by benrl
None of which addresses the female nun aspect which matches several roman religions that had female priestess who where to remain celibate for their god.

Seriously dude? Catholic women can't dedicate themselves to a life of prayer and service to God without it somehow being something from ancient pagan practice? Thats' just silly. People nowadays can renounce worldly things in their spiritual search for God .. that doesn't make them pagan. Comeon ...





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