Islam: Peace or Violence?

Originally posted by DarknStormy
they were not born gay as much as people like you believe it.

SCIENCE says otherwise.

List of Animals Displaying Homosexual Behavior

Homosexual behavior in animals

Medical News - 1500 Animal Species Display Homosexuality

"One fundamental premise in social debates has been that homosexuality is unnatural. This premise is wrong. Homosexuality is both common and highly essential in the lives of a number of species," explains Petter Boeckman, who is the academic advisor for the "Against Nature's Order?" exhibition.

NY Times - Can Animals Be Gay?

These animals didn't pick to be homosexual. They ARE homosexual. It's a part of nature. It's just the way some animals, including the human animal, are made. And putting people to death because of the way they were born .. that's ignorant and violent .. which speaks to the question asked by the OP.

I know im gonna get ripped for this but

In a nut shell

Islam is a religion of peace
Only once EVERYONE has been killed or converted or have accepted their place under Islamic rule

People may disagree with me on this but hey I have a very varied exposure to Islam

Sources

3 different versions of the Koran
The Sufi texts
The Hadith
God knows how many Muslim friends from many nations and sects including imams
A year in UAE
3 years Afghanistan
2 years Iraq
Jordan, Palestine, turkey, Pakistan, Indonesia, Iran, Chechnya, Yemen, a few other 'stans' , Algeria, Drc, RoC morocco, Egypt,.............and a fem more
Eh the list is long

reply to post by FlyersFan

These animals didn't pick to be homosexual. They ARE homosexual. It's a part of nature. It's just the way some animals, including the human animal, are made. And putting people to death because of the way they were born .. that's ignorant and violent .. which speaks to the question asked by the OP.

isnt it interesting, you are saying "its ok to do it, if animals do it"
do you know what else animals do? They poop on streets, have many mates.
They also dont know what incest is, forget about knowing that its wrong.
They kill the babies by another male to get the female back in heat.. etc etc
Hope you get my drift.
I am not going to learn moral values from animals!!! Thanks But No thanks.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Animals don't live in houses either, animals eat their own fecies, animals eat other animals, maybe we should start pulling down our houses, eat our own crap while dining on each other. Its natural isn't it? Don't homosexuals realise that if they want to compare themselves to animals that maybe they should live like animals since its so natural and the human way?

reply to post by Carreau


"The Qur'an is the literal word of God spoken to Muhammad which he wrote down word for word. According to the Qur'an there is no interpretation to be had. The Bible was written by men and that is the difference. "

Sorry dude but I'm gonna disagree with you there
Many Islamic texts state and acknowledge that many texts and parts of the Koran were lost and re written years after the prophet Mohamed died
Or were never written down in the first place and then written in by some other scholar/writer/leader

Will try and find a source to add
Infact there was a ATS thread not to long ago - will now go look and add to this post shortly

Edit
Really sorry but my tinterweb is on a massive go slow
So does anyone else recal the thread I'm referring to
It contained a video with 2 guys ( one western one of Asian/me descent ) basically pointing out that many parts of the Koran and other Islamic texts were no written by Mohamed or even during his lifetime ?

Many many thanks in advance

Originally posted by logical7
isnt it interesting, you are saying "its ok to do it, if animals do it"

Humans are animals. A percentage of all animals are born homosexual.
That's the truth of the matter.

I am not going to learn moral values from animals!!! Thanks But No thanks.

No .. you learn 'moral values' from a religion that says it's okay to kill humans because of how they were born. Thanks but no thanks.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
No .. you learn 'moral values' from a religion that says it's okay to kill humans because of how they were born. Thanks but no thanks.

But according to the Homosexual philosophy on the animal Kingdom, its natural to kill each other also. How can they take one example and omit the other natural aspects of animals? Dogs kill Cats, Cats kill Mice, Going by that logic humans should kill each other at will and that includes homosexuals also...

reply to post by DarknStormy

YOU said that people aren't born homosexual. I showed that they are.
YOU think it's okay to kill people for how they are born because your religion says so.
That answers the OPs question .. Islam ... peaceful or violent?
Obviously killing people because of how they are born = VIOLENT.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by DarknStormy

 

YOU said that people aren't born homosexual. I showed that they are.

No, you showed me why its ridiculous. You showed me also that maybe killing each other is natural according to the homosexual animal philosophy.

YOU think it's okay to kill people for how they are born because your religion says so.

The animal Kingdom apparently says its ok also. Maybe the religious books were the word of anti-homosexual animals.

That answers the OPs question .. Islam ... peaceful or violent?
Obviously killing people because of how they are born = VIOLENT.

Yeah I can see what your saying... But all sides are guilty of some form of persecution.

reply to post by FlyersFan


The fundamental difference between animals and humans is that humans have self control over desires.
A cheating man providing researches to prove polygamy is natural and seen in animals will be kicked out of the house by the wife.
Islam actually allows it with strict conditions to do it, so will you stop bringing that point up again after its clear that its natural?
Anyways, its about self control, i am not going to go into homosexual debate because its not that simple, some maybe born that way and some do it by choice.
The punishment in islam for homosexuality is not stoning.
It is however not an acceptable sexual preference.

Originally posted by DarknStormy

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by DarknStormy

 

YOU said that people aren't born homosexual. I showed that they are.

No, you showed me why its ridiculous. You showed me also that maybe killing each other is natural according to the homosexual animal philosophy.

YOU said that people aren't born homosexual. I showed that they are indeed born that way.
So how about you admit that you were wrong on that?
Animals of the same species do not commit murder of those in their own species
because those animals have homosexual sex.

Only brainwashed humans who think they are somehow morally superior
to other humans do that.

Bottom line ... murdering homosexuals simply because they are homosexual and
using supposed religious moral superiority as the excuse is VIOLENT.

Originally posted by logical7
The fundamental difference between animals and humans is that humans have self control over desires.

Imposing the supposed 'morals and values' of Islam onto homosexuals and forcing them to be celebate or be hung in the town square until dead, isn't exactly a highly 'moral' thing to do. Homosexuals shouldn't have to use 'self control over their desires' and not engage in homosexual sex. They hurt no one. However, those enforcing the supposed 'morals and values' of Islam .. THEY are the ones hurting people.

Islam actually allows it with strict conditions to do it,

Islam is used as an excuse for violence against homosexuals.
Even certain posts on this thread are proof of that.

LGBT Rights in Iran

LGBT rights in Iran since the Iranian Revolution of 1979 have come in conflict with the penal code, with international human rights groups claiming floggings and death sentences of lesbian, gay, and bisexual individuals.

Homosexuality is a crime punishable by imprisonment, corporal punishment, or in some cases of sodomy, even execution of the accused is legal under the laws of this country's government.[1] Gay men have faced stricter enforcement actions under the law than lesbians.[2] Iran insists that it does not execute people for homosexuality, and those executed had either committed rape, murder, or drug trafficking.[3]

In 2007, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, speaking to Columbia University, said (through a translator) that "In Iran, we don't have homosexuals", though a spokesperson later stated that his comments were misunderstood.

Irans' President and his Moral Crimes Against Homosexuals .. based on Islam

Irans Persecution of Gay Community Revealed

Yet homosexuality is punishable by death, according to fatwas issued by almost all Iranian clerics. Until recently, lavat (sodomy for men) was a capital offence for all individuals involved in consensual sexual intercourse. But under amendments to the penal code, the person who played an "active role" will be flogged 100 times if the sex was consensual and he was not married, while the one who played a "passive role" can still be put to death regardless of his marriage status.

Punishment for mosahegheh (lesbianism) is 100 lashes for all individuals involved but it can lead to the death penalty if the act is repeated four times.

All based on Islam.

The OP asked the question .. Islam: Peace of Violence?
The answer is ... Violence.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
YOU said that people aren't born homosexual. I showed that they are indeed born that way.
So how about you admit that you were wrong on that?

Why am I wrong? have they found a gene or something that proves what your saying? The only thing that proves your claim is the animal kingdom.

Animals of the same species do not commit murder of those in their own species
because those animals have homosexual sex.

Now your confusing me, actually can you elaborate more on the above.

Only brainwashed humans who think they are somehow morally superior to other humans do that.

Heres a question for you and I want you to be honest. Lets say Iran teaches their children that homosexuality is wrong and by the laws of Islam you can be sentenced to death also. If Muslims are so fanatical with their religion, they shouldn't have an issue but if they have been pre-warned about the consequences in Iran, have had the opportunity to leave Iran (Which they can do easily btw) yet break islamic law in Iran, who should be held accountable?

Bottom line ... murdering homosexuals simply because they are homosexual and
using supposed religious moral superiority as the excuse is VIOLENT.

Murdering anyone through any mean is violent... Unfortunetly, its a global pandemic right now and it doesn't look like its stopping in a hurry.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Imposing the supposed 'morals and values' of Islam onto homosexuals and forcing them to be celebate or be hung in the town square until dead, isn't exactly a highly 'moral' thing to do. Homosexuals shouldn't have to use 'self control over their desires' and not engage in homosexual sex. They hurt no one. However, those enforcing the supposed 'morals and values' of Islam .. THEY are the ones hurting people.

nobody is forcing or hurting homosexuals, its the law, hope homosexuals are wise enough not to organise gay parades in Iran.

Islam is used as an excuse for violence
against homosexuals.

you quoted a part of my post where i was talking about polygamy and you gave the above reply? I am confused.
My question was, is polygamy ok if its natural? Will you support islam regarding polygamy?

reply to post by Neocrusader


Ha I'm not claiming it is the word of God, that's Islam's claim. I was pointing out how the Qur'an is used to justify killing.

Imam Of Virginia Mosque (One of Largest in USA) Calls For Armed Jihad
redflagnews.com...

also

"You are a terrorist because you are a Muslim," Elsayed said. "Well give them a run for their money. Make it worth it. Make this title worth it, and be good a Muslim."

So what if:

His name also appears in a 1991 Muslim Brotherhood document detailing the group's plan to wage a non-violent civilization jihad to destroy "Western civilization from within."

www.investigativeproject.org...

Sorry, I can't close my eyes to reality.

Originally posted by sad_eyed_lady
Imam Of Virginia Mosque (One of Largest in USA) Calls For Armed Jihad
redflagnews.com...

also

"You are a terrorist because you are a Muslim," Elsayed said. "Well give them a run for their money. Make it worth it. Make this title worth it, and be good a Muslim."

So what if:

His name also appears in a 1991 Muslim Brotherhood document detailing the group's plan to wage a non-violent civilization jihad to destroy "Western civilization from within."

www.investigativeproject.org...

Sorry, I can't close my eyes to reality.

maybe you can open them and read the next lines too.

"You are a terrorist because you are a
Muslim," Elsayed said. "Well give them
a run for their money. Make it worth it.
Make this title worth it, and be good a
Muslim."

Elsayed then told Muslims to accept
peace when they receive peace, but
to fight back when their families,
communities, nations and dignity
come under attack.

if a muslim american fights for his country, that would be an armed jihad too.
I see it that he was just saying not to stop doing the right thing even if that would make them labeled as 'terrorists'
Thats actually how all should behave, stand up for the right thing even if the majority criticize you for it. Dont you agree?

Tell me why the Muslims need to wage a jihad in the USA? What rights don't they have that ever other US citizen has.
I can't think of how they are being persecuted, enlighten me.

Who is threatening them with violence in the US?

He calls for meeting peace with peace and signs a document detailing the Muslim Brotherhood's plan to wage a non-violent civilization jihad to destroy "Western civilization from within." That is messed up. That was back in 1991. I did not see non-violent jihad mentioned in this article. Rather talk of martyrdom.

Pick and choose your talking point from these articles, but when you read the whole story the truth emerges.

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady

He calls for meeting peace with peace and signs a document detailing the Muslim Brotherhood's plan to wage a non-violent civilization jihad to destroy "Western civilization from within." That is messed up.

not really, as much as i know, its allowed under western laws to promote any religion and non-violence is good. If people in west accept islamic ideas and beliefs freely then why would that be a problem to anyone?
The world is changing and it will change why to be afraid of it.
Isnt it ironic, secularism and democracy under threat by being binded by their own principles.
Every civilization tries to spread itself, afghan people never heard of burgers and coke till they were attacked by the west.
When muslims are violent, you complain, when they are non-violent you still have a problem.
I am afraid to say that it feels that you have a problem with islam just because it exists and is trying to promote itself.

reply to post by Carreau


My appologies dude, just read you wrong
You've never seemed like the sort of poster that swallowed that pill
My bad


But must ask
Is your dog any good as a spotter ?
I gotta get me one of those