The UK'S slave class

Originally posted by colin42
reply to post by grainofsand

 

You intimated earlier that you had left the thread, I'm surprised you changed your mind, but happy to read your opinions on the question of slave class Britons in the UK.

I answered a fair request from wolf which I note you have not. On the other hand you again show no intention of discussing the OP and just want an argument.

As I told you before I am not interested as you appear to have nothing to say that takes this discussion forwards.

What request? If I missed something specific then please feel free to remind me.
I have stuck to the lame accusations of alleged slavery in the UK and an inability of people to improve their lives.
I ask you to quote wherever you feel I've been off-topic.
I assert that you have imagined it and make silly sidetracks to avoid discussing the silly claims in the OP which I passionately deny.

*Edit* No response Colin? I assumed if you had such clear thoughts of my straying from the OP and other such assertions of my perceived poor contribution to the debate then perhaps you would have a long list of things to hang me quickly with?
I understand that you do not like my reasoned responses to emotive claims, but please provide specific examples of my alleged failings with specific claims of ego-based argument instead of general whining arguments about being a slave in the UK. It is difficult to respond to wishy-washy emotional statements.

You stated so what I cannot become king either. That is the entire point, why not. Perhaps you or I may be great kings: perhaps not. Why should we all be denied the best king or queen possible. It is like the chipshop owner who does not see the affect that a duke could have on their lives; when the duke is in fact their landlord. Yes this actually happens. Prince Charles owns a lot of the countries industrial estates. The queen directly gets the tax from the fish caught.

You say what is the problem if I can eat, get a job. We deserve more than that. We deserve complete equality no matter where or who you are born to, no matter what the situation.This is what I want. Nothing more, nothing less. I cannot see the problem with this. The status quo does not give this at the monent. What is so great about the status quo? Change is not necessarily bad. I simply want change and equality of chances for everyone. This would give a better world.

reply to post by werewolf99
I am mostly in agreement with you. I have always advocated strongly against our constitutional monarchy at every opportunity in life, it is archaic and unjust.
My issue is with the cries of slavery and claims that 'the poor' in our country are kept down. People mostly keep themselves down through lack of aspiration and effort.
If we had an elected president, yes we could aspire to that role but the lazy Jerry Springer/Jeremy Kyle types in the world would still sit on their fat arses claiming benefits and popping kids out.
Blaming our constitutional monarchy system on the ills of UK society is ridiculous if you ask me, but hey what do I know, I must just be lucky to have drive and determination to achieve in life...even if I cannot become king.

Oh, and if the Crown/Duchy estate was taken away from them it would either fall back into government control or be sold on the open market, either way, your poor chip shop owner would still be paying rent to someone.
You wanna change this thread to a debate about the role of a monarchy in modern society thats fine, but don't cry slavery and blame the unelected system as something which keeps the poor down - that's just a lame cop out.

I suppose this is really about the acceptability of the spread of wealth and opportunities to different people: or our views on it. We see the spread of these things very differently. I think this is because we are looking also at different parts of the spread. If you look at the distribution of wealth we will mostlikely see an l shape: on a graph. Quite clearly the haves and have nots: most people falling into 1 group or the other. But most of the power is in the very uppermost part and that is also a part of the problem. Couple this with a constitutional monarchy and what you get is a very skewed country.

I have a plan.

But first are the problems.

1.If we all decide to get rids of the idea of a monarchy we would still have a big problem. The military and police swear an oath to the crown and not the people. This means that the police/army would shoot the people to keep the royals in place.
2.Anything really really bad about the royals would be covered up. There are stories about things which here cannot be discussed for fear of retribution.
3. People do not like change.

Here is my solution
1. First we make it so anyone new who wants to join the military, police... swears an oath to the people. This would need to be given 50 years to clear out all those who did not.
2. Then we move to the next stage. We make sure that all the really bad things the royals have done and are doing are publicized to a large degree.By telling the truth people will want change.
3. If we did the last 2 stages at the same time we will now be ready in 50 years from starting 1. If not it may take 100 years. We then do what is necessary to dissolve the monarchy.

Best case scenario 50 years by my reckoning. How do you like my solution?

Originally posted by werewolf99
Here is my solution
1. First we make it so anyone new who wants to join the military, police... swears an oath to the people. This would need to be given 50 years to clear out all those who did not.
2. Then we move to the next stage. We make sure that all the really bad things the royals have done and are doing are publicized to a large degree.By telling the truth people will want change.
3. If we did the last 2 stages at the same time we will now be ready in 50 years from starting 1. If not it may take 100 years. We then do what is necessary to dissolve the monarchy.

Best case scenario 50 years by my reckoning. How do you like my solution?

I agree completely about the uneven distribution of wealth in the UK, plus unelected peers, Church of England lords, and a hereditary constitutional monarchy system. It is outdated and in my mind has no place in a 21st century world.
The trouble is that most people don't give a toss, with polls showing a majority in favour of the UK staying as it is. Until the people want change in great numbers it will never happen.
I see your idea regarding the military oath, but again, until MP's desks and inboxes are filling up with requests such as yours it will never happen. I don't personally think the oath matters that much though, if 90% of voters wanted a republic then it would happen and the oath would follow in the change.
The way I see it is when a republican slanted political party starts gaining huge numbers of votes the country will adapt to the voters wishes.

How about starting or joining a republican campaign in the UK and getting change through the ballot box?
Old fashined idea perhaps but here's a couple of tasters for anyone of that mindset:

Republic.org.uk - Campaigning for a democratic alternative to the monarchy
Democratic Republican Party - For a New Beginning

I've never joined any political party myself, but if a republican candidate stood in my area I would probably vote for them.
As I've said previously, the Royals etc are an annoying blight on democracy in our country as far as I'm concerned. But as an institution in itself they do not affect my success or failure in life, or keep me down as a slave. I cannot be the head of state of the UK, oh what a shame, I could aspire to be Prime Minister although as I have never joined a political party that has never been one of my life chasing options in my 'to do' list.