Parents Sue School For Making Children ‘Religious Guinea Pigs’ — By Teaching Them Yoga

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by LanceCorvette

 

I'm an actual real-life yoga teacher, and I've taught yoga to small school kids in Chicago. I can attest that there is nothing religious about your basic yoga practice.

I think as a yoga teacher you should know better. Yes you can teach yoga postures without going into obvious religious preaching. Clearly yoga postures don't teach the Vedic scriptures, but you know full well the spiritual nature of yoga regardless.
To say what you are saying means to undermine even your own reason for doing yoga, unless you are not authentic and believe only in the physical exercise of it.
Incidentally, the Examiner had an article showing that the class did indeed include yoga mats with the tai chi symbol on them, which is not even from the Hindu system, but nevertheless they thought to insert Chinese philosophical symbolism thinking no one would be the wiser.
I personally am fine with implementations of yoga, but again it is the motive I find disingenuous. Again, the seculars are not concerned with anything but eliminating Christianity, as they are perfectly happy with yoga, meditation, or any pagan religious curriculum.

edit on 25-2-2013 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

You're totally, partially right. Check out MessengerBird's post below yours, which says it better than perhaps I did. I agree with his/her analysis that it has been secularized, it has become a smorgasboard where folks can take or leave parts of yoga as they see relevant to themselves.

That's what makes yoga cool.

According to the Progressives, they just care about the children. This was ostensibly the reason why they opposed prayer in schools, and more specifically the Pledge of Allegiance, because children of faiths other than Christian would feel upset and shut out or uncomfortable with it.

So now students who are opted out of the yoga program are sitting on the sidelines during the classes. And what has happened to the Progressive line that some students feel left out?????

Nowhere to be found. Which shows the utter hypocrisy of Progressivism. It was never about the students, it was about their agenda, and this lawsuit brings it to light.

theconfluencecountdown.com...

www.infowars.com...


well well well here is a site that promotes both yoga AND sustainable development.

www.amatierra.com...


Un GLobal yoga festival

www.medindia.net...

FYI to everybody:

There is no form in yoga that is not found in countless other cultural exercises. Not one. The human body can only move in a fixed number of ways. As to where the movements originated from, best guess is long before written languages.

Opinion:

That being said, if they wish to follow their own rules of secularism, they do need to change the name, as the name yoga doesn't actually apply to the motion of the body, but to the spiritual connotations of the religion.

So, here is a novel idea...call it Physical Education, let them move, stretch, and pose as they see fit, and call it a day.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


Sustainable development is a good thing, a needed thing and I don't even like the UN. The UN doesn't own that concept, it's just plain smart... it's how we did things before industrialization. I don't appreciate that you've injected your agenda paranoia here.

The issue is a non-religious, non-spiritual, non-cultural even yoga class being offered to children and some zealot parent's having a freak out over it.

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

Sustainable development is a good thing, a needed thing and I don't even like the UN. The UN doesn't own that concept, it's just plain smart... it's how we did things before industrialization. I don't appreciate that you've injected your agenda paranoia here.

The issue is a non-religious, non-spiritual, non-cultural even yoga class being offered to children and some zealot parent's having a freak out over it.

The UN has been promoting it and is probably responsible for all the propaganda out there that has caused you to know about it.

An example of why it is bogus and misrepresntative of genuine environmental stewardship is right here in our community, a man was telling of how the city demanded to cut down some very old trees which have been here for a very long time. This is a historical area connected to westward expansion. It is ironic that the very people who pretend to care about the environment were only concerned with the roots growing into the cement sidewalks, not in real arborial care of the trees.
You have to know that their words do not match their deeds.

It is the same with everything the UN does.

Now who said yoga is non-cultural? There is a difference between cultural and religious. Yoga is culturally Hindu and you know that but you won't admit it.

By the way, for everyone using the term "Hindi", that is a reference to the language, and it is not even the only one in India. Bengali, Punjabi, and Kashmiri represent other languages spoken in regions of India.

reply to post by peck420

There is no form in yoga that is not found in countless other cultural exercises

Yoga is taught widely in many places, but that is only because dedicated teachers have traveled to different places and set up schools. It is not because yoga is some kind of universal exercise.

Here is an example of one such an organization which has established locations in different parts of the globe.
www.dlshq.org...

People should really look this stuff up instead of just saying whatever comes to mind.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


No the UN is not responsible for every thing I know about anything, I'll thank you not to patronize me or anyone else with your assumptions that we've fallen prey to propaganda. Our personality and ideological types and philosophies have existed as long as humanity has existed so unless the UN can time travel it has nothing to do with how or what I think, anymore than secularism is a religion... the real issue here is that 'it's not Christian therefor it's evil'. Same old BS that shot yourselves in the foot to begin with.

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

No the UN is not responsible for every thing I know about anything, I'll thank you not to patronize me or anyone else with your assumptions that we've fallen prey to propaganda. Our personality and ideological types and philosophies have existed as long as humanity has existed so unless the UN can time travel it has nothing to do with how or what I think, anymore than secularism is a religion... the real issue here is that 'it's not Christian therefor it's evil'. Same old BS that shot yourselves in the foot to begin with.

it's how we did things before industrialization

Kali, let us be clear about this. The term "Sustainable Development" is a buzzword of the UN Agenda 21, one of many buzzwords, and propaganda has been put out, and local Agenda 21 implemented in communities through ICLEI, and yes what you see being displayed on all these websites comes right out of Agenda 21. Just because Pottery Barn uses it in the catalogs does not mean that they suddenly decided to promote refurbished wood bed frames out of the blue. I bet someone on the Board of Directors of Pottery Barn is also involved in some local agenda 21 NGO. I know that the Western Sustainability Exchange has people from various local businesses on their board. You just think this stuff magically happened in some kind of Utopian dream where everyone just wanted to be Green and magically Pottery Barn goes Green. It doesn't happen that way.
This has nothing to do with UN time travel. I've seen that silly argument used before on this forum and it's patently an absurd thing. Sustainable Development is a concept developed by the UN. It wasn't around as long as humanity existed as you have just postulated, that is unless you have Time Traveled back to the beginning of cave man and you know for certain that they sat around talking about how to go back to nature and stop scattering their bones all over the caves. Maybe they discussed how not to litter by using biodegradable palm leaves.....

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


Now the real issue "here" is that "it" is not Christian and therefore evil...I'm assuming you mean yoga. Well I have told you that I practiced yoga since the 70's and I never said it was evil, but I do recognize that secular humanists had Christian values removed from the public schools and now they are trying to convince everyone that yoga is just exercise and has no spiritual roots to speak of. That is patently false and every true yoga teacher knows that.
You also incorrectly said that yoga is not "cultural". I don't know, is that from the Alinksy playbook? Because it is a patently false statement.

For your edification I will include a wikipedia definition of Sustainable Development and we can clear that up right away.

Sustainable development (SD) refers to a mode of human development in which resource use aims to meet human needs while preserving the environment so that these needs can be met not only in the present, but also for generations to come. The term 'sustainable development' was used by the Brundtland Commission which coined what has become the most often-quoted definition of sustainable development: "development that meets the needs of the present without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their own needs.".[1][2]

Sustainable development ties together concern for the carrying capacity of natural systems with the social challenges faced by humanity. As early as the 1970s, "sustainability" was employed to describe an economy "in equilibrium with basic ecological support systems."[3] Ecologists have pointed to The Limits to Growth,[4] and presented the alternative of a "steady state economy"[5] in order to address environmental concerns.

In 1987, the United Nations released the Brundtland Report, which included what is now one of the most widely recognised definitions: "Sustainable development is development that meets the needs of the present without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their own needs." [7]
According to the same report, the above definition contains within it two key concepts:
the concept of 'needs', in particular the essential needs of the world's poor, to which overriding priority should be given; and
the idea of limitations imposed by the state of technology and social organization on the environment's ability to meet present and future needs.[7]

en.wikipedia.org...
So, now you know that the term sustainable development refers more to economic equality and redistribution of wealth and resources than it does actually preserving natural resources.
en.wikipedia.org...
Once you remove all the frills and fluff, it boils down to Totalitarian control of resources including land, water rights, food distribution, and energy/electricity, and living arrangements, since their Utopian model means no more single family homes with large yards, but everyone will be packed into apartments and condos. It's in their literature if you care to be bothered looking.

reply to post by luciddream


Jealous no! That is laughable considering if you had bothered to read most of my posts here, you would know that I value yoga and have practiced over a lifetime.

I have made my points very clear, that while I support yoga, and even support it in schools, people need to be honest and not pretend, and if the seculars want separation of church and state, they have to take their lumps when they are challenged. In case you didn't read my other posts, I showed where even the Humanist Manifesto declares secular humanism to be a "faith" and the signers of that Manifesto know this. It even went to the Supreme Court because the Humanists wanted to get rid of Christianity, while still declaring Humanism to be a faith. Only when they were challenged did they decide to change the definition to that of non-religious or faith based. It is a matter of record.
So in case you were not aware, secular humanism rules the public education. John Dewey is the founder of the modern education system, and he was a signer of the Humanist Manifesto. Secular education by their own admittance is a faith, athough devoid of belief in One God. There is no definition of faith as believing in One God, so secular humanism fits into the category of faith, It was merely politically expedient to declare themselves not religious for the purpose of the court case. That is a matter of public record,

Originally posted by peck420
FYI to everybody:

There is no form in yoga that is not found in countless other cultural exercises. Not one. The human body can only move in a fixed number of ways. As to where the movements originated from, best guess is long before written languages.

Opinion:

That being said, if they wish to follow their own rules of secularism, they do need to change the name, as the name yoga doesn't actually apply to the motion of the body, but to the spiritual connotations of the religion.

So, here is a novel idea...call it Physical Education, let them move, stretch, and pose as they see fit, and call it a day.

What utter BS. I can walk around wearing a pontiff hat swinging incense and I can say that there is no article of clothing which cannot be found in other place or that the swinging of incense involves physical movement found everywhere else universally. Boy do people come up with the most inane arguments.

By that same token I can say that prayers are also not religious because it involves speech and goodness knows that speech is universally done. Because prayer involves stringing the letters of the alphabet together as all language does, it must not be religious. Can I use that argument next time I want the Pledge of Allegiance given in a school?

I also am wondering why everyone has overlooked the exact point that personal information is being collected through surveys in this program. Where are the Progressives crying out that our data is our personal stuff?

Our yoga teacher, Erin Cooney arrived at LCH. She has been observing teachers, getting to know our school community, designing her classroom space, and helping to develop curriculum to teach health and wellness through yoga. She has also been helping to collect data for the study. Parents wanting to opt their children out of the study should complete the parent survey that can be accessed under the For Parents section of the EUSD webpage at www.eusd.net. You can also view the student survey (for grades 3-6) under the For Students/Student Web Resources section of the EUSD webpage.

lbrady.wordpress.eusd.net...

So now as a parent, to opt my child out of the program I now have to fill out a survey which would be kept for the study.

Here is where the guinea pig part comes in

The initial research is a control group study, which takes place during the first ten weeks of the program. The universities will continue to examine data over time for a period of 3 years. Schedules and offerings at sites following the control group study will vary.

EUSD is interested in how some of the students’ attitudes about school may change as a result of the new curriculum. Since this involves asking both parents and their children a short series of questions – which many of you have already completed – I wanted to first thank you for helping us in ultimately understanding the ways in which our new curriculum may increase the health and wellness of our students. If you have not yet completed the parent survey, it can be accessed under the For Parents section of the EUSD webpage at www.eusd.net. You can also view the student survey (for grades 3-6) under the For Students/Student Web Resources section of the EUSD webpage.

The study will begin gathering data within the next few weeks which will include taking measurements related to students’ height, weight and resting heart rates. Resting heart rates will be tracked weekly for the first ten weeks at a designated time and day, with upper grade students learning how to take their own heart rates. In addition, students will give input through surveys and as parents you will also be invited to participate in online data gathering.

They are claiming confidentiality, but someone is going to see this stuff right?

The hypocrisy is phenomenal. In attacking the Pledge of Allegiance or prayer in schools, Progressives are all worried about the kids feeling bad. But now with this study, data is being collected and that's just fine with them. Because Progressives are Collectivists and the ends justify the means always for them.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


I didn't say yoga didn't have spiritual or cultural roots, I said the the school district removed those aspects which is perfectly possible with yoga.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

By that same token I can say that prayers are also not religious because it involves speech and goodness knows that speech is universally done. Because prayer involves stringing the letters of the alphabet together as all language does, it must not be religious.

If you are putting your hands together in a prayer position, and while you are doing that, you are concentrating on communicating with God -- that is religious. If you are putting your hands together in a prayer position, but you are instead only thinking about your grocery list - that is NOT religious.

Just the physical act of putting your hands together in a prayer position does not make it religious. Atheists can put their hands together in a prayer position - means nothing.

The same thing goes for yoga positions. It's all about the intent -- what's going on between the ears, not what the muscles are doing.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

The hypocrisy is phenomenal. In attacking the Pledge of Allegiance or prayer in schools, Progressives are all worried about the kids feeling bad. But now with this study, data is being collected and that's just fine with them. Because Progressives are Collectivists and the ends justify the means always for them.

edit on 26-2-2013 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-2-2013 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

Your paranoia is phenomenal. The reason why organized prayer was removed from schools is a little thing called "separation of church and state". But any student can take a moment and silently pray on their own, anytime during the school day. No "progressive police" will catch them and put them in jail.

What the heck is wrong with studying the physical affects of doing yoga positions? This will tell them if yoga exercise for kids is beneficial, and whether it's worthwhile for other schools to include it. Heck, it might even improve learning and test scores -- wouldn't that be a good thing?

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by peck420

 

There is no form in yoga that is not found in countless other cultural exercises

Yoga is taught widely in many places, but that is only because dedicated teachers have traveled to different places and set up schools. It is not because yoga is some kind of universal exercise.

Here is an example of one such an organization which has established locations in different parts of the globe.
www.dlshq.org...

People should really look this stuff up instead of just saying whatever comes to mind.

You should really consider this before you post!

Human body as it currently exists: Approx 130,000 years old.
Oldest known culture by evidence: 14-15,000 years, give or take.
Oldest known culture by hearsay: 50-60,000 years old.

Yet, you think humans did nothing before the first recorded cultures? Arrogant much?

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

I didn't say yoga didn't have spiritual or cultural roots, I said the the school district removed those aspects which is perfectly possible with yoga.

This is what you said exactly

The issue is a non-religious, non-spiritual, non-cultural even yoga class being offered to children

The school did not "remove" anything.


*edit, no I take that back, I read yesterday that schools were changing the names of the yogasanas so they do not reflect the more traditional spiritual ideas behind them. In other words, it's an attempt to secularize it in a subtle way.


Perhaps you meant they omitted aspects of yoga. Yoga is cultural regardless of whether the Vedas or any concept of karma or reincarnation or the Bhagavad Gita or the yoga sutras of Patanjali are taught. You have just stated that the school is presenting a non-cultural version of yoga.
By it's nature yoga is a cultural part of India. Just because it is taught in other countries does not remove the cultural background.
A person can experience the rise of kundalini without ever hearing the vedas while practicing yoga.
Pictures of the children sitting in lotus position with hand mudras is a meditation pose.

Yoga is a spiritual discipline even though it is often taught without a specific focus on Hindu thought.
I read something yesterday that was apparently a background of the suit that claimed various spiritual ideas being taught along with the classes, so whoever is spouting the bs that it was only postures being taught is wrong.

reply to post by peck420


Are you seriously using this as an argument? I cannot believe you.

I am coming from a genuine background and experience, not from just some dropping in on a thread and dropping some bird poop of an argument.

I am sorry to see the practice being reduced to "just some physical exercise devoid of spiritua" essence and meaning and using this as an excuse.

You might want to know just how much the secular humanists have tampered with the educational system to program people, and especially to remove all references to any Christian traditions, but also traditional role models. This was all going on when suddenly waiters at restaurants had to be called "waiting persons", till finally someone realized how ridiculous that was and now they are called "servers". The idea is that waiter is male and waitress is female and therefore all references to gender had to be removed. This is what is going on in the schools too. No longer can you have a mom cooking dinner for the kids. It is no more run spot run see mom cook, it is run spot run see dad burp the baby.
I was actually kind of shocked to see the pic of the UN soldier with the blue beret standing in the back of the yoga class in that fb page. The World Council of Churches is dedicated to turning all religious experience into a One World Religion.
This is where I am coming from. I like the idea of yoga in schools in fact, but I see the point of view that if the seculars insist on removing all religion, they need to suck it up instead of lying about the cultural and religious ideas embedded in yoga.
Fair is fair and the Progressives just do whatever they want to achieve their goals.

reply to post by kaylaluv

The reason why organized prayer was removed from schools is a little thing called "separation of church and state"

Prayer was taken out of schools because Progressives and seculars wanted it out, not because of some idea that the Constitution says it cannot be there. Where in the Constitution does it say religious ideas cannot be taught in school? Separation of church and state is for the purpose of NOT establishing a STATE RELIGION, not for removing religion from the public square. All the Founding Fathers had a religious ideal of some kind, even the Masons.
It's almost comical that some Socialist came up with the Pledge and a Christian is who put the "under God" part in, and now it's the Socialists who want the Pledge removed because it references God.
Removing prayer from schools is entirely a Progressive concept and not our Founding Fathers.

"School Prayer" (Murray v. Curlett, 1963)
School prayer was the focus of Madalyn Murray O'Hair, a militant left wing atheist with close ties to the American Communist Party, when she filed a lawsuit against the school board of Baltimore. The local court judge, J. Gilbert Pendergast, dismissed the petition stating, "It is abundantly clear that petitioners' real objective is to drive every concept of religion out of the public school system." The case went to the Maryland Court of Appeals, and the court ruled, "Neither the First nor the Fourteenth Amendment was intended to stifle all rapport between religion and government."
- See more at: www.allabouthistory.org...

The "School Prayer" case then made its way to the U.S. Supreme Court. Leonard Kerpelman addressed the court saying prayer in the public schools had been tolerated for so long that it had become traditional and that anything that is unconstitutional does not become constitutional through tradition. He went on to say the Constitution had erected a "wall of separation" between church and state, at which point Justice Potter Steward interrupted, asking where this wording appears. Kerpelman was stumped and an embarrassing silence followed. When he regained his composure, he stated that the text was not explicit on the point but that it had been interpreted to mean so.

www.allabouthistory.org...

reply to post by kaylaluv


Here is the real goal of secular humanism in schools

Secular Humanism - Excluding God from Schools & Society
Secular Humanism is an attempt to function as a civilized society with the exclusion of God and His moral principles. During the last several decades, Humanists have been very successful in propagating their beliefs. Their primary approach is to target the youth through the public school system. Humanist Charles F. Potter writes, "Education is thus a most powerful ally of humanism, and every American school is a school of humanism. What can a theistic Sunday school's meeting for an hour once a week and teaching only a fraction of the children do to stem the tide of the five-day program of humanistic teaching?" (Charles F. Potter, "Humanism: A New Religion," 1930)
John J. Dunphy, in his award winning essay, The Humanist (1983), illustrates this strategic focus, "The battle for humankind's future must be waged and won in the public school classroom by teachers who correctly perceive their role as the proselytizers of a new faith: A religion of humanity -- utilizing a classroom instead of a pulpit to carry humanist values into wherever they teach. The classroom must and will become an arena of conflict between the old and the new -- the rotting corpse of Christianity, together with its adjacent evils and misery, and the new faith of humanism."
Is this what's happening? John Dewey, remembered for his efforts in establishing America's current educational systems, was one of the chief signers of the 1933 Humanist Manifesto. It seems the Humanists have been interested in America's education system for nearly a century. They have been absolutely successful in teaching children that God is imaginary and contrary to "science."

www.secular-humanism.com...


As such it makes sense for educators to hawk yoga as a so-called non spiritual and non-religious(and according to Kali non-cultural:lol physical practice, while eschewing even so called silent Christian prayer.....but children can be taught to sit in meditative lotus pose with hand mudras. Don't you see the hypocrisy?

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus



You give too much power to the Progressives/Seculars. Sure, they may have wanted prayer removed from the schools, but it was the Supreme Court who ruled that the government must remain neutral with regards to religion in schools, i.e., separation of church and state.

How do you know what the founding fathers would have wanted taught in schools? There were no state and federal-funded public schools back then. Many of the founding fathers weren't even Christian.