The Varieties of ATS Religious Experience; or, Variations on a Theme, page 9

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by NewAgeMan

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Yeah, randy was here.

Oh, and one troll.

He led me into temptation, but elevatedone delivered me from evil, putting me back on the right path. After that I just ignored the troll, who was alarmingly, well.......
It was kinda funny, I guess.

But we all rallied and stayed afloat here! Amazing!

The appearance of troll posing mischievous riddles (often of a sexual nature) is a sign that there's a bridge to be crossed.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

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This thing about the appearance of the troll reminds me that it's as if there a format of some kind laid down from the time before time for the spiritual path that might be called "The Hero's Journey". For anyone who's interested, and we all should be interested since it's a rite of passage we all have to go through sooner or later, I highly recommend "The Hero with a Thousand Faces" by Joseph Campbell, comparative mythologist.

I've been through not one but FOUR dark night's of the soul and it would be nice if it was worthwhile, meaning that my own experiences might save you a lot of valuable time and energy, and the need for hospitalization..

The actual experiences don't really matter, because these stories are always a variation on the same themes.

So there's a troll who'll try to trip you up, and then if that doesn't work, a monster to scare you away, but what's really funny in the final analysis is that these were all just archetypes or aspects of our own self!

On the other side of "the bridge" or rite of passage there is a domain or realm or "new pasture" of limitless freedom, love, and the humor of true understanding where what's funny is everything you had to go through to get to the simplicity on the far side of complexity. Jesus I think tried to make it as easy as possible, but even then he said we had to have the courage to pick up our own cross and follow him to/as the gateway.

Since Jesus as an authentic spiritual master passed through the ringer, it's helpful to utilize him as a valid or workable theological framework by which we can enter the fray with our whole being (Carl Jung), but for those who can't do that because of religious bias, all I can say is that it will be a tough row to hoe. (Ho Ho Ho?).

Within this context, that there's an actual pattern for "the journey", makes of the one who plays the troll, a helpful aid in his own right, and that's FUNNY! And what's even funnier is when he get's the joke of his own riddle and surfaces to pass across his bridge, yet another troll immediately fills in to take his place.

My own experience is to see and recognize the signs along the path and to discern their meaning and they are ripe with meaning, and when they unravel as a double-bind on everything that needs binding - oh the humor of it all is utterly magnificent from the POV of the land of the laughing Buddha or the free space and reign of the Resurrection Life.

At the heart and soul of the Hero's Journey is I am convinced an evolutionary principal capable of triumphing over all the sorrow, suffering and the indignities of the vicissitudes of life (like taking heat over a complete misunderstanding, or when you go to fart only to crap your pants, stuff like that). And hey what doesn't kill us (spiritually) only makes us stronger..


Best Regards,


NAM

Originally posted by wildtimes
Do you see what I mean?
I have musical talent, linguistic talent, critical thinking and problem-solving talent, spacial-relational talent......
my interests do not necessarily reflect my talents. You get me????

Well, in the post of yours that I was replying to (here,) you were making the point that interests (as well as talents, though the focus was on interests) could carry forward from life to life. I don't think that talents would carry forward, either, but I was referencing interests.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

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Triumph over the indignities of the vicissitudes of the sorrows and suffering and strife, the follies and the foibles, trials and tribulations... LOL!

There IS something there on the other side of all of it, I am convinced of it!

This is why I said that God is the funniest being in the whole universe, and we offer ourselves much joyful humor if we might only summon up enough courage to allow the joke to be told at our own expense even as a shared joke with none other than God the greatest comedian in the universe (space of absolute unconditional love and acceptance) in mind, that's when it only starts to get even FUNNIER if such a thing were possible (and it is).

So that's my "religious" experience and it's a fairly recent one at that, this shared joy and humor with God, as if God is also some sort of fountain of joyful humorous sustenance of some kind (because it really satisfies lol).

With Love (and humor), even "Madness",

NAM

Date: Don't be absurd.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

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God is also some sort of fountain of joyful humorous sustenance of some kind

This is wonderfully stated.
Your entire series of posts here have really touched me.
Thanks for being here, NAM!!

reply to post by wildtimes

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We have a pre-knowledge of what things we need to work on - and then agree to come and do it - not knowing when or where those opportunities will arise (and sometimes they are hard to recognize, and we slip up, repeatedly, even in each lifetime).

even at 1st round? Wouldnt we be be blank in 1st round?
How can i know whats the wrong way unless i have done tried and failed.
A 1st timer soul is either blank or already has weaknesses to overcome, why? Thats not fair, why to create it that way?

reply to post by logical7

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Friend, I don't know. That's what's so compelling about the idea. Some say that souls inhabit all sorts of different places and don't get to Earth before having been around for a while.

I don't know. What do you think happens? If we are all emanations from the Ultimate, wouldn't we have been around forever? Where, and in what form, is beyond me. I'll look into it some more to see what I find. Theories, that is.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by logical7

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Friend, I don't know. That's what's so compelling about the idea. Some say that souls inhabit all sorts of different places and don't get to Earth before having been around for a while.

I don't know. What do you think happens? If we are all emanations from the Ultimate, wouldn't we have been around forever? Where, and in what form, is beyond me. I'll look into it some more to see what I find. Theories, that is.

my theory is that, if it leaves a lot to 'i don't know' then its not good enough to hold on to.
not knowing maybe compelling but never being able to know is not.
Another question, whats the purpose of it all? If the initial and final stage is same and all will get there, then whats the exercise all about?

reply to post by wildtimes

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Friend, I don't know. That's what's so compelling about the idea. Some say that souls inhabit all sorts of different places and don't get to Earth before having been around for a while.

I don't know. What do you think happens? If we are all emanations from the Ultimate, wouldn't we have been around forever? Where, and in what form, is beyond me. I'll look into it some more to see what I find. Theories, that is.

If we are all expressions of the "Ultimate", then surely we come from the imagination of the "Ultimate"? That is to say, we come from thought. We are the realizations of synapses occurring within the deepest layer of reality. I don't have the technical terms because our "world scope" prevents us from seeing those terms and defining them. You can't label what you can't imagine, because you have nothing to label it by.

Imagine taking a flower and disintegrating it. Then look at the collection of particles you have produced. All those quarks, bosons, electrons, protons...each and every one of them is identified by the part it plays in the larger picture. They are all individual, but their value is recognized as a sum. Synergy.

And so, we are the particles of a bigger picture, a larger entity whose purpose I would speculate is as simple as experiencing awareness. The greatest joy and wonder comes from creation, so perhaps our purpose is to create. Experience the joy of living in creativity. End of story.

That is a brief overview of my personal theory in the matter. And after seeing the shadow of a ytterbium atom compared to the Milky Way galaxy, I'm inclined to stick with it. Not to mention the telepathic probes into the structure of atomic dynamics. Awe-inspiring materials, certainly.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

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No doubt! And thanks for your continuing participation.
I'm hoping perhaps this thread will live for some time as people discover it and add their stories. It's been hugely gratifying to me, and, I think, a positive contribution to common understanding among ATS members, whether we all agree or not.

reply to post by logical7

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Another question, whats the purpose of it all? If the initial and final stage is same and all will get there, then whats the exercise all about?

Growing, and learning true compassion, love, and selflessness.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by logical7

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Another question, whats the purpose of it all? If the initial and final stage is same and all will get there, then whats the exercise all about?

Growing, and learning true compassion, love, and selflessness.

why? The source already has it all. ryt? And we will get joint to the source and we even came from it, so we knew before leaving, we'l know after joining, so why the leaving and joining? To teach us what we already knew but forgot due to getting seperated from the source in the 1st place?
So why the source is doing this elaborate exercise? If the end is the same as the beginning and the ignorance is a result of the exercise and not our fault.
There's a greater yet simpler lesson in it if you contemplate.

reply to post by logical7

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Your "the source" thing sounds like my definition of Hell.
I want to be me, just a me that is a little better than the me that I am right now.
You want oblivion, something you can get without even trying.

why? The source already has it all. ryt? And we will join to source and we even came from it, so we knew before leaving, we'l know after joining, so why the leaving and joining? To teach us what we already knew but forgot due to getting seperated from the source in the 1st place? So why the source is doing this elaborate exercise? If the end is the same as the beginning and the ignorance is a result of the exercise and not our fault. There's a greater lesson in it if you contemplate.

reply to post by logical7

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Why? I love asking why!!!

What I have found thus far is we have split from the ALL (1st and last adam who evolved to jesus/atom/big bang), to experience our will separate from the creators. We are the creators creating as individuals and collective. Its all dual.

The lesson is lifetimes of learning through the material for our spirits advancement with the soul in a material plane of existence. We are all learning how to overcome matter. Its dense and weighs us down in every sense. The struggles of Earth/Matter allow the spirit to evolve in perfect harmony as we have many life times to create a will that meets the standards we have set for our self from before man was created.

What else ya gonna do for all of eternity? Learn how to "be within" the experience.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by logical7

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Your "the source" thing sounds like my definition of Hell.
I want to be me, just a me that is a little better than the me that I am right now.
You want oblivion, something you can get without even trying.

you are saying a part of one of my points to wildtimes.
You are an example of the one who wants to continue the seperateness, no offence, just putting your thoughts in my words.
I do agree that getting lost in oblivion is very disheartening for you. ryt? So you wouldnt want that even if thats how its meant to be. Right? But how will you fight it? Wouldnt it be like fighting any natural laws like say gravity?

reply to post by logical7

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But how will you fight it? Wouldnt it be like fighting any natural laws like say gravity?

It would, and so, how is that all of a sudden negative?
Two and three days ago there was a tornado and a severe conditions warning and I thought those were good days to take my kayak out.
I was fighting nature who probably thinks humans don't belong in the ocean, at least not breathing.
So things like I am trying to describe kind of makes certain concepts very real and immediate.
Fighting the wind and the current and the waves all going in different directions, that's what you do and that's what life is.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by logical7

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But how will you fight it? Wouldnt it be like fighting any natural laws like say gravity?

It would, and so, how is that all of a sudden negative?
Two and three days ago there was a tornado and a severe conditions warning and I thought those were good days to take my kayak out.
I was fighting nature who probably thinks humans don't belong in the ocean, at least not breathing.
So things like I am trying to describe kind of makes certain concepts very real and immediate.
Fighting the wind and the current and the waves all going in different directions, that's what you do and that's what life is.

edit on 1-3-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

Philosophically very interesting
however spiritually...., well i better say it this way, spirituality asks for acknowledging something higher than individuality, the minimum is humanity. That in itself is also denying complete independence.
Let me give a simple example, if you see a cute puppy with a thorn in its paw, and if you try to help, the puppy struggles for self preservation, it would keep struggling till it shows some spirituality and gives up the instinct of self preservation/independence to acknowledge someone with higher intelligence and an opposable thumb to pluck the thorn out.

reply to post by logical7

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Let me give a simple example, if you see a cute puppy with a thorn in its paw, and if you try to help, the puppy struggles for self preservation, it would keep struggling till it shows some spirituality and gives up the instinct of self preservation/independence to acknowledge someone with higher intelligence and an opposable thumb to pluck the thorn out.

You seem to be implying that we can't take care of ourselves. To all appearances, everything we've achieved in the last hundred years has been entirely under our own steam. Any part played by any god has, at most, been a psychological trick used to motivate each other into actually doing what we're supposed to do.

Other than that, no god involved. Just our own ingenuity. And considering how we've managed to bring the dead back, kill the living, control organisms, recreate life, replicate life, control the weather, leave the boundaries of earth, extend our perception to far beyond our measly atmosphere, and are attempting to recreate intelligence itself. We don't need gods. We're fast on our way to becoming gods.

And once we've recreated every miracle in the Bible, where will you be then? Where will you get your authority from then? Once we have proven that any gods that ever existed were most likely highly advanced beings, what will you do?

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by logical7

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Let me give a simple example, if you see a cute puppy with a thorn in its paw, and if you try to help, the puppy struggles for self preservation, it would keep struggling till it shows some spirituality and gives up the instinct of self preservation/independence to acknowledge someone with higher intelligence and an opposable thumb to pluck the thorn out.

You seem to be implying that we can't take care of ourselves. To all appearances, everything we've achieved in the last hundred years has been entirely under our own steam. Any part played by any god has, at most, been a psychological trick used to motivate each other into actually doing what we're supposed to do.

Other than that, no god involved. Just our own ingenuity. And considering how we've managed to bring the dead back, kill the living, control organisms, recreate life, replicate life, control the weather, leave the boundaries of earth, extend our perception to far beyond our measly atmosphere, and are attempting to recreate intelligence itself. We don't need gods. We're fast on our way to becoming gods.

And once we've recreated every miracle in the Bible, where will you be then? Where will you get your authority from then? Once we have proven that any gods that ever existed were most likely highly advanced beings, what will you do?

then why is humanity suffering? Why are you suffering? The easiest would be to blame religion and god, you still need God even if to blame.
Hope you find peace by latest discoveries and inventions, but it is a more metaphysical thing, peace is in being 'satisfied'
science cant help that. The world now promotes the opposite, hope you are enlightened enough not to run after the latest gizmos to get a bad and momentary alternative of that 'peace' of contentment.

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