reply to post by wildtimes
I am doing this both for you and myself so it will be long. I want to point out where Christ stops and Christianity begins. It is very subtle but
also very profound. So profound that non Christians, although they may not change their mind will see that Christ is literally "ALL INCLUSIVE" gift,
although few actually receive it, mainly because they have yet to believe in it.
Everyone knows Christianities tag phrase John 3:16. But what if the message behind what is being said is fundamentally different than the Christian
view? Let us look to see what the bible itself says about John 3:16.
John3:16-21 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but
whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
John:14-6 6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you
will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no
one should boast.
You can see that John 3:16, John 14:6 and Ephesians 2:8 when put together make a strong case for the Christian argument.
Try if you can at this time to clear your mind of Christianity, maybe impossible I know, because I am about to explain what these passage truly
James 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.
John 14:21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him
and show myself to him."
John 3:19-21 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20
Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth
comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.
The Christian Dogma, believe that Jesus is the son of God, death, resurrection, came in the flesh. Once you do that you receive the gift of Grace and
become a Christian, assured that upon physical death you will be resurrected to heaven with Christ.
Luke 4:41 Moreover, demons came out of many people, shouting, "You are the Son of God!" But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because
they knew he was the Christ.
Here is where it gets complicated for the church. We know by the scripture that the demons believe in one God and they believe in the Christ. So
they should also receive Grace and the promised resurrection because they have done what Christian Dogma says is required. If we assume that demons
are not intended to be saved then there must be something more that we can do that they cannot.
So let us look at who/what Jesus claimed to be.
Genesis 1:3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. And God saw that the light was good.
John 8:12 Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of
1 John 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1 John 4:16 God is love
The bible claims that Jesus was the firstborn of all creation and calls himself the light. Amazingly we find in Genesis 1:3 the first thing created
by God is "light", before the natural light of the sun, moon and stars. God also refers to himself as light and Love. So if God is light and Jesus
is light and God is love then Jesus is love. The light of this world is love. All love comes from God. No man may come to the father except through
the love of this world. Jesus claims to be the love of this world, and I know this is crazy, he is and without him you cannot feel love. This is why
so many of us our depressed and searching because we live without the light.
The bible explains this concept repeatedly throughout the OT and NT. It is said so many times that I don't need to quote scripture. What I am about
to say should be so obvious but yet it alludes all of us. You fall away from God when you sin; God and sin are not compatible. God is light; in him
there is no darkness. When you sin, you enter darkness; God does not dwell in darkness. When you repent you come back to God and thus he comes back
The Israelites fell so far away from God they began practicing child sacrifice like the people around them had been doing. They were given over to
slavery for their sin. When you sin God gives you over to your sin, he binds you to your sin. This is your punishment; you become addicted to the
thing that destroys you. God is the one who bound you and therefore he is the only one who can free you. Even Israel was freed often times by the
act of one righteous profit that God had raised up for them to lead them back to his love.
It is clear to see that God, Jesus, light, and love can be seen as one according to the bible, although how they are one may not be so clear but that
matters very little if any.
What I have done is simply incerted the word love, where it should be from a concept standpoint. You can do this with most of the NT and the verses
take on a deeper meaning. Please humor me with the read.
1 John 4
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from (love)God, because many false prophets have gone out
into the world. 2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of (love)God: Every spirit that acknowledges that (love)Jesus Christ has come in the
(their) flesh is from (love)God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge (love)Jesus is not from (loved)God. This is the spirit of the
antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
4 You, dear children, are from (love)God and have overcome (sin)them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 5
They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from (love)God, and whoever knows
(love)God listens to us; but whoever is not from (love)God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of (love)truth and the spirit of
7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for "LOVE COMES FROM GOD". EVERYONE WHO LOVES HAS BEEN BORN OF GOD AND KNOWS GOD. 8 Whoever does not love
does not know God, because GOD IS LOVE. 9 This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only (love)Son into the world that we might
live through him. 10 This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his (love)Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. 11 Dear
friends, since (love)God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen (love)God; but if we love one another, (loves)God
lives in us and his love is made complete in us.
13 This is how we know that we live in him and he in us: He has given us of his (love)Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the (love)Father
has sent his (love)Son to be the (love)Savior of the world. 15 If anyone acknowledges that (love)Jesus is the Son of (love) God, (love)God lives in
them and they in (love)God. 16 And so we know and rely on the love (love)God has for us.
(love)God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in (love)God, and (love)God in them. 17 This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have
confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like (love)Jesus. 18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear
has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.
19 We love because he first loved us. 20 Whoever claims to love (love)God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their
brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love (love)God, whom they have not seen. 21 And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves
(love)God must also love their brother and sister.
So far I know I have yet to reconcile the concepts in my argument so let me try.
John3:16-21 16 For (love)God so loved the world that he gave his one and only (love) Son, that whoever believes in (love)him shall not perish but have
eternal life. 17 For God did not send his (love)Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through(love) him. 18 Whoever believes
in (love)him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe (in love) stands condemned already because they have not believed in (love)the name of
God’s one and only (love)Son.
John:14-6 6 (love)Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through (love) me. 7 If you really
know (love)me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of (love)God; not as a result of works,
that no one should boast.
It is all reconciled here. Jesus is Love. More precisely he is the light of the world, He is the gift of God given freely to us. God's love has
been freely given to us. There are only two types of people, Jews and Gentiles.
The promise is for all. Anyone who pursues love will find love. When you stop worrying about "A" name and start thinking about all the names of
Christ, you realize his most important name is love.
If you stop worrying about the relationship of the trinity, of which I already showed that Jesus was created by God in Genesis 1:3, then you can open
yourself up to other possibilities. The trinity is an attempt to define what it is supernatural, anything by definition that is supernatural, cannot
be naturally explained. So any attempt to try is futile. Once you eliminate the "definition" you can start to see more clearly. You start to point
out what they have in common and you marvel at the complexity rather than trying to define it.
The one unifying force is love. And by our own logic any two things that are "in love" are "in agreement". So you now can see why Jesus claims to be
equal to God. He even considers it possible for us to become like him. He was there from the beginning; he has all understanding, so he can teach us
how to love. This is what he came on earth to do. He came to teach us how to overcome our sin. His greatest work of symbolism is an actual symbol
What is the promise of "the cross"
First we have the spiritual symbolism of death and rebirth. One must be born again to enter heaven. For Christ he turned the spiritual into the
literal, so that we may believe. You see it is the resurrection we believe in. The resurrection of our spirits unto union with the father. We
achieve this through the love that was given to us by the father.
This love came to us in the man named Jesus Christ. He taught "turn the other cheek", when it had been said an eye for an eye. He taught that to
defeat sin you had to do it at its root. Even anger or a lustful look needs to be defeated before it takes hold and gives birth to sin.
He told us to pursue the father by handing over to him everything that we are, so that we may live according to his will. When you live for God's
will your life is with 100% certainty being guided by God. When you live against his will than your life is 100% being guided by you. God and sin
are not compatible; they do not reside in a man together. The light is always separated from the darkness.
This leaves us with a gaping hole in Christianity, who is baptized by the spirit and been promised eternal life and who has not? I have clearly
presented the case against simply believe, and proven through scripture that faith is action. Belief and faith are two different actions that the
church has smashed into one. This should not be.
Jesus came to free us from our sin. The bible says the one who is born again will sin no more. So why are there so many Christians that keep
sinning? The answer is in Acts.
Acts 19:3 1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain
disciples, 2He said to them, Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed? And they said to him, We have not so much as heard whether there be
any Holy Ghost. 3And he said to them, To what then were you baptized? And they said, To John's baptism. 4Then said Paul, John truly baptized with the
baptism of repentance, saying to the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5When they heard
this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spoke with
tongues, and prophesied. 7And all the men were about twelve.
John 3:3-73 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.” 4 “How can someone be born
when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!” 5 Jesus answered, “Very
truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives
birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’
John 8:34, 36 Whosoever 34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the
family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.
I John 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been
born of God.
Rom. 6:16-18 16 Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you
can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living. 17 Thank God! Once you were slaves of sin, but now you wholeheartedly obey this teaching we
have given you. 18 Now you are free from your slavery to sin, and you have become slaves to righteous living.
I John 5:4 4 For every child of God defeats this evil world, and we achieve this victory through our faith.
So I posted the Acts verse first so you can see how confusing it really is for Christians. They believe in the Holy Spirit and they should because
they are guided by him, but there is something missing. You see the second set of verses tell you what a man that is born again will be like. This is
about as close to understanding by earthly terms that anyone could get.
The Natural mind cannot perceive a world without sin. The natural mind cannot perceive infinity. The natural mind cannot perceive God. So to the
natural mind these verses appear supernatural and therefore impossible. The natural mind rejects the truth of the above quotes.
It is the spiritual mind that contemplates a world free of sin, and even imagines paths to achieve this "world peace", we might call it. You must
accept these verses in spirit even before they make since to your mind. You must believe that you can overcome all obstacles in front of you. Jesus
made the promise of Grace. What is Grace? God loves you, that is it. Do you see now that no one can do anything to deserve it? Creation itself
should be proof that God loves you but many men live in fear.
So one of the promises of the cross is God loves you, EVERYONE, the same without showing favoritism. He loves Jews and Gentiles alike the promise is
Put all these thoughts together, God loves everyone, Whoever seeks Gods love finds it, the natural mind and the spiritual mind, though seeing they did
Now let me take you back to Acts, Read it again…...
According to the bible Christians have not yet believed in "being born again". Their natural minds have CREATED the notion of original sin and
rejected the truth that we are here because of God's love for us. Not only are we here in his love but we are also here in his power so that we may
become true son's of God and overcome our sin.
Because they have so twisted the word to fit with the "FALSE DOGMA OF ORIGINAL SIN" they have lost the ability to be born again.
The bible predicts even this will hapen.
1 Corinthians 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
The message of the cross is the salvation from your sin. Freedom to love God, knowing that he first loved you, even when you were in sin. The call
is to become sons of God, "like Christ". In order to achieve this we must overcome sin, but we must believe we can. Anyone who does not believe they
can over come sin stands condemend already to commit sin. Sin is the punishment for disobeying God. Repent and you will overcome sin this is the
promise of the cross.
To those who are waiting for thier death for the resurection the message of spiritual rebirth is foolishness. If you can accept spiritual rebirth,
then you should be able to find it.
As you know with any spiritual experience it will be unique, undeniable to that person, yet improvable to the rest of the world. All we have is
faith; just realize that all I have shown you is love.
Spiritual rebirth is real. An indescribable freedom is real. The promise of immortality is real.
I have nothing to gain by lying to you. If it still sounds like I'm trying to convert you fine. But spiritual rebirth is real and maybe it can be
found somewhere else, but I promise you I found it, or to say it more correctly it found me.
I present to you the bible the way I have been taught by God to read it. I cannot prove to you that the spirit of God is alive in me and providing
you with these interpretations. But if these interpretations are not from God, where are they from? I am clearly claiming that God is giving me
this. So either God is in me or I'm crazy because you can't find any of my interpretation anywhere else. I am so connected to love right now that if
I am crazy I pray to God that I never get better.
Grace - the love of God given to all freely. In Grace there is forgiveness.
Forgiveness - Only understood upon repentance. Gift for complete repentance the Holy Spirit
Holy Spirit - Spiritual reborn, with the Holy Spirit living in you as your guide towards love.
edit on 24-2-2013 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)
edit on 24-2-2013 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)