Why will people argue Creation vs. Evolution when it is possible to have both?

reply to post by EnochWasRight


OK...your KILLING ME with your incorrect assumptions of G.R. and other Physics.

Gravity...Dense? What are you talking about?

Gravity is Space/Time Geometry or more specifically....the Expression of One Dimensionality within a minimum 10 or 11...probably more...Dimensional Universe.

Time Dilation would NOT act as you are stating.

Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity

Well...you just hit a pet peave of mine...NOTHING and I mean NOTHING can defy ENTROPHY. Not any amount of Matter...not any amount of Energy...not even an Idea or Belief.

A pet peeve of mine is when people do not read closely. Entropy in information is not entropy in energy. They are relative.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

OK...your KILLING ME with your incorrect assumptions of G.R. and other Physics.

Gravity...Dense? What are you talking about?

Gravity is Space/Time Geometry or more specifically....the Expression of One Dimensionality within a minimum 10 or 11...probably more...Dimensional Universe.

Time Dilation would NOT act as you are stating.

Split Infinity

In relation to matter. It's called relative density. Do you need to read up on it? LINK I would have been more accurate to say specific gravity.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


If you read MY post I accounted for this by stating that Ideas and even beliefs would not be uneffected by Entrophy.

Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

OK...your KILLING ME with your incorrect assumptions of G.R. and other Physics.

Gravity...Dense? What are you talking about?

Gravity is Space/Time Geometry or more specifically....the Expression of One Dimensionality within a minimum 10 or 11...probably more...Dimensional Universe.

Time Dilation would NOT act as you are stating.

Split Infinity

Please refute what Gerald Shroeder is saying. The factor is .015. This can be shown from the constants we know.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Excuse me but you stated the DENSITY OF GRAVITY. The measurable effect of Gravity is relative to the total amount of Higgs-Bosons within Protons and Neutrons. The specific DENSITY of Matter is NOT SPECIFIC to the measurable effect of Gravity but rather the total amount of Mass...specifically...the total amount of Higgs-Bosons within the total amount of Protons and Neutrons.

Saturn has many times the mass of Earth yet it's Planetary Density is so slight that it could FLOAT on one of Earth's Ocean's.

Thus...Density of Matter has NO BEARING upon Gravitational Effect Calculations...only total Mass.

Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

If you read MY post I accounted for this by stating that Ideas and even beliefs would not be uneffected by Entrophy.

Split Infinity

Entropy in information would show that a book, at least 1800 years old, would not be accurate to what is currently known. Discovery goes against information entropy as information complexity increases. Life goes against nature in this. The Bible should be relative to this by time since we KNOW that bits of information degrade over time. It has not degraded. It has remained accurate for all of the ages it has been in existence.

Evolution would fall on its face because of information entropy. In our universe, information degrades. Life does not in a macro sense. In a micros sense, all life dies and cycles to new life.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


I don't mean to be a pain but there are Giant Screaming holes in your logic.

First of all...you state that Evolution would fall flat on it's face from information entropy...but that LIFE would not.

Thing is...Evolution is specific to ever changing DNA through Natural Selection and Mutation as well as DNA being a part of LIFE. And as you said...LIFE would not entrophy...but THAT is not correct as EVERYTHING changes and will eventually become victims of Entrophy.

Secondly...You cannot prove in any way, shape or manner that what is written in the current Bible is not different than what the original text said as well as what even older Bibles had written into them.

As example...Moses did not PART the RED SEA...Moses CROSSED the REED SEA.... a tidal marshy area between the Red Sea and Med. This is the ACTUAL TRANSLATION...and has been admitted to be so by every Christian Sects. Leadership. When the Vatican was asked why they would not change it to the original texts real meaning...the Vatican said...To change this beloved story now after so much time has passes would only confuse the faithful.

Split Infinity

Majority of christians in the world believe in some sort of theistic evolution. So it is not only possible, it is the dominant view among self-described christians.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

Evolution would fall on its face because of information entropy. In our universe, information degrades.

Thats just not true, evolutionary processes can locally decrease information entropy. Life is not a closed system, it takes energy and information from the environment. The global entropy of the universe (both in terms of energy and information) still increases, and thats the only thing which must hold true.

reply to post by SplitInfinity

Thing is...Evolution is specific to ever changing DNA through Natural Selection and Mutation as well as DNA being a part of LIFE. And as you said...LIFE would not entrophy...but THAT is not correct as EVERYTHING changes and will eventually become victims of Entrophy.

Yes. The observer is the one collapsing the wave function. Wave function of what? You see a paradox. If you have the higher axiom, no paradox exists. Here is your higher axiom.

When you are between a light source, your body (3D) casts a shadow. That shadow is 2D, or a slice of the image you cast. That shadow changes when you move. You only do two things with your body. You move and think. Those movements and thoughts create the shadow that follows you. The shadow is determined by the dimension above, right?

Time is 4D. Use the same logic. You are the shadow of time as you move between the other sides of past and future. Move to the 5D probability space. Time (NOW) is the shadow of probability governed by law. 'Now' is the shadow, but we can conceptualize that future and past are there. Future is the thing you evolve to from the shadow cast by the dimension above.

What casts the shadow of what is possible in 5D? WORD! Information. What is possible (Determinate) is collapsed from each dimension above into the wave function of TIme, Space, Matter and Energy. This is the veil over your temple. Your consciousness body is the temple where you think and move. Other than these two things, you do none of it. Where does evolution fit into this? What we do below affects what happens above. As above, so below. What we do on earth is bound in heaven. We are entangled.

Matthew 18

18 “Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be[e] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[f] loosed in heaven.

19 “Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”

Faith allows you to collapse the indeterminate wave function and make it determined. Apart from this choice, the states of matter cannot be affected. Answer this question: Do you change the sates of matter?

The Dirac Relativistic Quantum Wave Equation states that our universe must be parallel to another. Matter must have antimatter. The veil between is the wave of both collapsing. It is a 2D veil we see. Our mind sees it as the hologram it is. Now is all that exists. What we do evolves the whole. Further, it determines our indeterminate future.

What have I just described? Your computer screen. Play a 3D game. What you see is the memory location from the information (WORD) on the hard drive that you need. The observer changes states of matter, in the form of energy, on the screen. The screen is 2D, giving the shadow illusion of 3D. In relation, our world is a much more complicated version. God is divine. We are rising to that divinity. He was there first.

Error Correcting parallel to our own: Explain Please if you can?



John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

Originally posted by Maslo
Majority of christians in the world believe in some sort of theistic evolution. So it is not only possible, it is the dominant view among self-described christians.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Evolution would fall on its face because of information entropy. In our universe, information degrades.

Thats just not true, evolutionary processes can locally decrease information entropy. Life is not a closed system, it takes energy and information from the environment. The global entropy of the universe (both in terms of energy and information) still increases, and thats the only thing which must hold true.

Wave function cannot be collapsed apart from the observer.

reply to post by SplitInfinity


Because the concept of god is a man made one. We can't explain things to our satisfaction, so we make up an all powerful god that just made things to be as they are.

Evidence proves the theory, from fossilised changes over millions of years, to simple species changes if they're separated over any distance, to each fit in with the environment they needed to survive.

god came much later consuming everything that had evolved the ability to think of the 'What If?'s and adhere an only explanation to the existence of a god and jesus as more than a possible man who lived 2000+ years ago..

and if it is true that there is a god who created us in their image, and they just left us to brew in this muck all the while being worshipped as gods or god. I'll still say "Cobblers to you!" as they shut the pearly gates on me. I wouldn't worship such a beast...

nah, evolution appears to be as violent as required in order to keep it self in equilibrium, and is likely changing for the worst for us to fling us off. Sounds about it to me, and I don't have to go to confession on sunday to resolve my sins.

Why limit what reality might be, with a written one from ancient people who used it to control the people under it?

We learn from them, because the intentions are the same, we want to know more. but not because they had contact with gods who throw leftover debris at us after experimenting on alien creatures and we find them and take their stones.

then they probably got eaten.

who knows.

First off, I have no horse in this race. Either or both are fine with me. Although admittedly, it would be nice to know for a fact which it is. As an atheist, I may not believe in gods or deities, but I don't rule out the idea of intervention.

Evolution is not proven. Proof is for those who think there is nothing left to discover, or know. Science is about probabilities. Evolution is considered to be the best explanation we currently have, given what we know, and have observed.

Science is a process which can only produce "possible" to "highly probable" explanations for natural phenomena; these are never certainties. With new information, tools, or approaches, earlier findings (theories, or even facts) can be replaced by new findings.

What Science Is Not...

For some people, the two cannot co-exist because they take the Adam and Eve story literally. They believe Adam and Eve were the first created humans, and they looked just like we do today. But for many liberal Christians, they have no problem seeing that story as allegorical.

reply to post by SplitInfinity


I have one question for you, SplitInfinity - and no one has been able to answer this for me.

Why does it have to be a god?

No one is imaginative or creative enough to design or locate a root code that would specify one very particular behavior in all of matter...a behavior that promotes preservation in order to allow growth.

reply to post by SplitInfinity


It seems to me you did not read and TRY to consider what Enochwasright conveyed in his first few posts to you.

The defensiveness came about without understanding his words first and the meaning therein.

If you were to go back and go point by point with him, you may understand his ideas better.

At first glance it may appear to be the same ole bible thumpin talk.... but it isn't. FAR from it.

AS for the Op.... I believe in both and Enochwasright showed why I believe its both.

For me.... its a no brainer, with my perception of course.

reply to post by Klassified


I am not an atheist. I am not a theist. I believe in a natural law that promotes preservation in such a clever way that chaos merely sniffs out weaknesses and order refines those weaknesses. I put this simply because it's a very complicated idea. You know the Gaelic Rose? That kind of thing. It twists and turns, but always feeds back into itself. That's how it operates.

So what does that make me?

jesus as more than a possible man who lived 2000+ years ago..

reply to post by winofiend


My studies show "Jesus" was the first man.... Adam/Atom. The splitting of man/atom (man and woman) was the Big Bang.

Scrolling through the Bible can be fun, but what is really exciting to me is to dissect all the information at hand whereas one can find the truth over matter. In order to do this we have to "see" past matter.

Truth over matter is spirit. The proof is in the experience as that is all an observer has to go on.

Matter is always evolving.... this is evident as well.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


You know...you have been nice enough to have this conversation with me...so I have decided NOT to shred this post of yours as it has beauty in it's words but lacks in the reality of Physics.

Sometimes I get a bit carried away with the science and math and physics of things and I forget that there is a person behind such words. I will try not to piss EVERYONE off in one day and try to spread it over several if possible. LOL!

Split Infinity...p.s...Shadows are NOT cast...Light is...shadow is LACK of light...as well as any Light or Photons that are cast are doing so within the rules of Quantum Mechanics which is most likely specific to a Multiversal System as the Double Slit Experiment has shown Photons behaving as both Particle and Wave will actually CHOSE to pass through two slits or obtain two seperate functions at the same time effecting and occupying two different locations of Space/Time....simultaneously. In order for this to happen...our Universal Space/Time as well as all Quanta residing in it as well as residing simultaneously in other Divergent Universal States within one specific Universal Group out of an Infinite number of Universal Groups each one having it's own set of Physics, Natural Laws...and other Constructs of Reality so Alien in their nature we can neither understand them or even describe them...within a Multiversal System.

Aw....crap. I just couldn't shut up. Sorry.

I would say dogmatic faith revels in exclusivity and progressives just have an agenda to establish dominance, It is interesting watching science get closer to a prime creator.To me what ever we experience only makes God greater,but then again my heretical beliefs are not really in keeping with my Christian upbringing. I also don't have Homosexual hang ups or hate Muslims either.
I hate political correctness,revisionist history and lies. My faith taught me to love not judge
Science it self is also highly resistant to alter its accepted faith much like a dogmatic oligarchy.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Klassified

 

I am not an atheist. I am not a theist. I believe in a natural law that promotes preservation in such a clever way that chaos merely sniffs out weaknesses and order refines those weaknesses. I put this simply because it's a very complicated idea. You know the Gaelic Rose? That kind of thing. It twists and turns, but always feeds back into itself. That's how it operates.

So what does that make me?

An existentialist?