Is there any better argument against intelligent design that the human mouth/teeth?

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by undo

 

The GREAT thing about science is that something will remain either a Hypothisis or Theory until it has been PROVEN to be a reality.

Evolution has been PROVEN to be a Reality. Science would not allow this to be unless the proof existed.

Split Infinity

that is a religious statement, because 1) you don't know what they did, you weren't there, 2) science gets bonus points for being methodical but loses points for being so cocksure of itself that it will even bypass empirical tests it's supposed to perform because there's no need, they already know the answer. that should never be happening to things like out of place artifacts in geological layers. they should be forced to date every single one of them. therefore, they are assuming religious-like infallibility in their foregone conclusions regarding ooparts, and make a mockery of the idea of empirical validation. if they don't have to test it empirically, what business do they have trying to force others to ? either you have the evidence or you don't. if you don't, it's not empirical and if it's not empirical, you can't make the claim that it's infallibly proven fact. you must therefore, take your place at the table with ancient history. either that, or date everything. all of it. go back, redo it all. make them prove it to you.

Originally posted by freedomlover79
Hello, I'm a new user and I'm a confirmed believer in intelligent design. You say that the human mouth is too small for all of our teeth, but what do you consider "too small"? Is your mouth so cramped that you cannot comfortably chew your food? Last time I checked evolution was indeed still a theory and not a fact. Other users can talk down to believers in intelligent design and people of faith all they want, but it still takes a certain degree of faith to believe in evolution. Evolution has never been proven, otherwise it would be called "evolution fact" and not "evolution theory". When did evolution stop? Has anyone been witness to a species evolving before their eyes? Before anyone posts any negative responses, know that I respect your beliefs, whatever they may be, and I'm not trying to troll this thread. I just thought I would post from the point of view of the intelligent design side because the OP asked for confirmed believers. Thanks for reading.

I would like to answer your questions:

- Our jaws are too small to have wisdom teeth, simply because they have been reducing in size because of dietary factors;
- It doesn't take faith to believe in evolution, the theories that support it are strong and countless. It's preety much a fact;
- Yes. The major example of witnessing species evolving is the domestication of dogs (wolves) and cats.

I sincerely cannot understant how people dismiss evolution and believe, without any proof that supports it, on intelligent design. But I'm not dissing your questions, it's just a rant.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by tadaman

 

Your confusing a few things again...it is Cro Magnon that had the larger Brain than we did not Neanderthal.

Neanderthal did not even have properly developed Vocal Cords and most likely used a combinational form of communication of both vocalisations and sighn language.

Neanderthal WAS NOT one of the brightest bulbs in the bunch but the reason those people in the high mountains evolved to have shorter limbs is because of the Colder Temps. as well as Low Air Pressure.

Neanderthal also dealt with Low Temps. living in an Ice Age.

Split Infinity

Again your information is outdated.

There was a reconstruction done of the vocal chords of neanderthal. They were capable of complex sounds, just not as many vowels. THAT does not mean that they lacked complex language....just that it had different syntax than ours. Also the ability to teach complex crafts suggests that they did have a way of communicating. That is what led to the reconstruction of their vocal chords to prove it.

We have found Neanderthal flutes, evidence of fishing, ceremonial symbolism, decorations from feathers that were taken from certain birds not butchered for meat but rather their feathers only, so ornamentation. They cared for their injured and elderly. They were the first to bury their dead with SOME form of ritual involving flowers and ceremonial objects. They had man made structures built out of wood /bones and hides. MANY of their tools showed signs of wood working......They mined the material for their tools precisely, picking certain veins for quality, and making breaks intelligently to get the best blades possible so in some regards and for certain uses their blades were superior to other groups..ect...they were NOT brutes....

Also neanderthal had larger skulls than all the groups. This is not even debatable. Cro-magnon had smaller than neanderthal and we have smaller than cro-magnon.

mountains evolved to have shorter limbs is because of the Colder Temps. as well as Low Air Pressure.

Neanderthal also dealt with Low Temps. living in an Ice Age.

and Yes, these are CLIMATIC adaptations. They speak NOTHING about the genetic base of each group. That is NOT evolution. That does not produce a new species. WE would adapt in the same manner and still be the same species.

Short and stocky is not a genetic contribution to Neanderthal but rather a climatic adaptation.

EDIT:
Also these advanced traits were not learned from other groups. In Italy there were very advanced neanderthal communities living in isolation from everyone else and had these practices....They may have taught them to the other groups instead of learning them. How else do you survive and ice age for hundreds of thousands of years...?

INTELLIGENCE...that is how.

reply to post by undo


OK...look...it isn't the SCIENCE that is the source of the problem of properly accumulating and documenting Data....it is those improperly using the Scientific Method.

The Method is PERFECT....people are not.

As far as EVOLUTION...we can use a Microscope and some bleach and a few slides of Bacteria and within HOURS...we can visually see EVOLUTION taking place as the Bacteria slides exposed over and over again to bleach and then the Bacteria still alive harvested...regrown with sugar water...and exposed again...till eventually...the vast majority of Bacteria will have EVOLVED to be resistent to Bleach as well as it's DNA having changed.

Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by undo

 

OK...look...it isn't the SCIENCE that is the source of the problem of properly accumulating and documenting Data....it is those improperly using the Scientific Method.

The Method is PERFECT....people are not.

As far as EVOLUTION...we can use a Microscope and some bleach and a few slides of Bacteria and within HOURS...we can visually see EVOLUTION taking place as the Bacteria slides exposed over and over again to bleach and then the Bacteria still alive harvested...regrown with sugar water...and exposed again...till eventually...the vast majority of Bacteria will have EVOLVED to be resistent to Bleach as well as it's DNA having changed.

Split Infinity

i realize that evolution happens and have never said otherwise. what i'm saying is, there's nothing to indicate, from my viewpoint, that a sideways insertion of bacteria will sufficiently account for the difference between a homo sapien brain and a fruit fly.

I consider teeth to be a very good argument against natural selection myself. Its like, something is testing us, we have to swim upstream like fish, to overcome negative conditions, and endure hardships that aren't built into mere surivival, ie food/shelter. And science is filled with "theories". Some of the "theories" have more allignement with actual results, and can be seen micro to macro, and the more they scratch at "reality" and "matter", the less "matter" is here to matter about really. More holographic, technological, by design. If you were in a dreamscape school, what would be the purpose. If you were to realize all around you was programming by those who seem to know "something", but have sold out to the Love of Power side, and wish to ensure you know little, so even the religions were meant to entrap, then how would you shed the programming in a positive way to go within and search? Would you question what this is? Would you see reflected in the mirror the pains and suffering of this plane and realize it doesnt resemble anyones concept of heaven?

We're infinite parts of infinity. The goal is to drop the shells here and be. But to reach the infinite portions, the clear portions, one must get rid whatever is in them that is being reflected in the conditions of the world, overcome self. Be a light in the world, that is in darkness.

Everything else in this thread is irrelevant. The very fact that we're programmed to suffer more, to struggle more, that we need to use brains over brawn in this realm is a sign that we are put here to grow and advance, not some accidental proliferation of life.

Originally posted by freedomlover79
reply to post by Monger

 

Don't get aggressive toward me because you can't prove something that you claim to be fact. I already said that I'm not trolling your thread. You drank the Kool-Aid and think everyone else should do so as well. You shouldn't try to argue subjects for which you aren't well-prepared "son". I was never disrespectful to you, but obviously critical thinking makes you aggro. Peace.

Here is some proof:

- Lizards Rapidly Evolve
- Birth of New Species Witnessed

I'm not a religious person, don't believe in a "God" that watches our every move, but I do have a theory on "Him". Personally, if there were a God, I think he may have created the Universe, then sat back with a cold one to watch the fun. No guidance or manipulation, just throw it out there and see what happens.
Now, He's sitting there, seriously thinking of a do over for a certain little planet. Damn monkeys just had to come down outta the trees.

people need to get their nose out of the bible and into some science books...take some courses at a community college, if you can afford a few extra bucks. the level of scienctific ignorance with some on this board, is frankly astonishing as well a disheartening

also neanderthal made prolific use of Magnetic iron oxides. They made use of red magnetite oxide for many unknown purposes probably linked to some form of spiritual practices. Magnetite iron oxides are one of the most used materials by indigenous peoples for ceremonial purposes even today.

neanderthal also had the use of fire to temper certain materials with heat to make them stronger.

There are many prehistoric structures attributed to cro-magnon throughout Europe that may in fact have been originally Neanderthal since they all have a common theme of lunar tracking or a lunar based cycle of time measurement. It seems that academia forgets what even they say about neanderthal territorial displacement by Cro-magnon.

It is of worth to mention that Neanderthal seem to have suffered a sort of genocide at the hands of Cro-magnon. When populations are displaced and interbreeding occurs from violent incursions into territory, a predominantly male on female genetic exchange happens. This can be tracked genetically. When an exchange happens in times of peace it is usually a predominantly female on male exchange. Genetic evidence shows that what neanderthal DNA we have was the product of cro-magnon rape of neanderthal females by cro-magnon males. In other words most of the neanderthal DNA we have was not from neanderthal males taking Cro-magnon females. It was from neanderthal females having cro-magnon partners.

This happens in violent conquest.

It would explain how neanderthal lost its territory in Europe and was forced into the Iberian peninsula where it died out. That did not happen in Asia. There may have been up to 3 different migrations from Asia into the Americas and Australia BEFORE this occurred. That is why there is more Neanderthal genes in these continents than in Europe, which is traditionally thought to be their home continent.

If there is an omnipotent creator, one wonders why He/She/It didn't make everything perfect to start with.

That said, the fact that species biologically adapt to their environmental circumstances (ie improve) over time is, if anything, an argument for, not against, intelligent design.

If you really, really think about it we are of a most stupid design.... I mean come'on...... We eat and breath, and drink through the same whole.... it's kinda stupid to make us so dependant on one oriface for everything... a truly stupid design in my opinion.

reply to post by Monger


Actually I think there is a better argument against intelligent design. It's called religious fundamentalism. Surely a god so wise & powerful wouldn't make his followers so stupid, gullible, bigoted, intolerant, backward, intellectually lazy and ultimately redundant? More than several adequate examples of which can be found within this thread alone.

Just sayin'

IRM

Here I am just jumping in here because this was a great thread started by the OP and I followed it hoping that at some point a creationist would jump in and explain the human mouth like the OP asked but so far none have instead they attack the only workable theory which is evolution.
I have to say Poor form poor form indeed creationists you are not offering knowledge or solutions you are simply attacking established science. It seems you have nothing to bring to the table to answer the question at hand.

Anyway I will add this link to the thread which introduces another ancestor to Homo sapiens which has bread with our ancestors and he is also thought to be the one who introduced us to stone tools.

Furthermore in another article which I will link later there was something I found very interesting. True Homo sapiens looked more like Asian’s do today by modern DNA tracking it seems the Asian culture mingled less with Neanderthals and this guy here Homo heidelbergensis than non-Asian cultures did. Who would have known the truest form of our species id the Asian form?


www.abovetopsecret.com...



Homo heidelbergensis He has a little bigger than the close cousin Neanderthal

reply to post by Monger


Anyway star a d flag OP you brought up a great topic I had really hoped it would have been honestly debated by creationists in your thread. I have a suggestion though you could take it to the debate forum as a topic. I am very interested in the opposing views on their subject however I doesn’t seem that there was anyone willing to honestly debate the topic there without using logical fallacies or attempting to draw attention away from the subject matter.

The subjects are worthy of debate would you consider posting in the debate forum?

reply to post by Grimpachi


He didnt look like that.

More like a past cycle of human, some blonds and red heads too, recovering from something big.

One of many examples: www.burlingtonnews.net...



another concept would be:

wanderingamericantravelblog.files.wordpress.com...

There were many cycles here, even unto the solar system.

Why do we still have wisdom teeth after millions of years of evolution.
If our jaws and mouths are smaller then shouldn't we stop generating wisdom teeth through evolution and save ourselves a fortune.
If you chewed your food properly and ate real food not processed food your teeth would fit into your jaw.

reply to post by SplitInfinity


It sounds to me evolution is masked with adaptation with your surroundings in the same way some people adapt to things in order to survive. I don't see anything evolve as of yet but I see a lot of adapting to where a species moves to. Up here we still live of the land and we still eat wild food and my teeth fit just fine because we adapted to our surroundings and as a city dweller would not eat so much meat and would not need so much teeth.

Originally posted by lesisgod
If you really, really think about it we are of a most stupid design.... I mean come'on...... We eat and breath, and drink through the same whole.... it's kinda stupid to make us so dependant on one oriface for everything... a truly stupid design in my opinion.

So if we evolved like we did then evolution is stupid?
Your whole body is dependant on many organs for everything, not just your face.
How big would a human head have to be to contain so many holes, how thick our neck.

Your design skills are not well thought out

I don't see why an evolutionist can still have his beliefs even though though their is a creator.