Is there any better argument against intelligent design that the human mouth/teeth?

Originally posted by saturnine_sweet
reply to post by CristobalColonic

 

You realize that being hateful is only a sign of your own insecurity?

The only 'hate' lies in religion and the intolerance is pervades through the agency of the strident adherence to its phallocentric precepts it prescribes.

Without the tools of fear, hate and punishment, religion ceases to exist. Religion exploits these human foibles to impress its systems of control upon the intellectually un-evolved.

Religion is 'junk food' for the mind.

I like 90% of Bob Marley's music and beliefs (I'd be a Rastafarian if it wasn't for the JAH thing and I have short hair now - DRUGS are part of HUMAN EVOLUTION, Potty Alky-holers!)...

PREMISES:

DNA is an extremely efficient info-store - unlike our MACRO-BODY which it controls - it tries NOT to DISCARD past adaptions to past/other environments...

Our MACRO-BODY is made as efficient as possible for it's LIFE CIRCUMSTANCES in relation to SURVIVAL of the SPECIES (not individual)...

THOUGHT requires more energy than WALKING

Originally posted by Buffalo Soldier
Why did we evolve to be naked? Why did all our hair/fur decide to just drop off so that we became naked? If we had hair and fur why would it ever disappear? You can't say because we started wearing clothes because there would have been no reason to wear clothes had we had hair and fur at the time.

Hair, feathers and scales are keratin based.
We have the same amount of hair follicles as an ape but less nutrients are routed to most roots.
Any mammal can SHORTEN its hair via a few, tiny genetic mutations just as human WOLF-MEN regain their long hair..

I've always loved the fact that evolution just 'happens' to take millions and millions of years basically making it impossible to prove by reproducing the results in a lab.

Evolution (via NATURAL SELECTION) can take DAYS, MONTH, YEARS, CENTURIES, MILLENIA to occur and is directly proportional to the gap between OFFSPRING.

Also I'd love to see how the creatures that soar in the sky grew wings and learnt how to fly... did they stand there swinging their arms trying to lift off for millions of years and generations and eventually wings just sprouted from their upper arms?

You sound like a GOD-LOVER in a right FLAP!

Also I have often wondered if evolution is a real thing, why is it humans are the weakest most fragile living things on the planet? The amount of pain and suffering an animal can handle compared to a human is immense, even their physical strength agility everything is far superior to humans in every single way.

Jesus, is this a WIND-UP!? Have you ever looked at flora & fauna. A Cock is harder than a Mayflower. I think the 'FRAGILITY' of humanity you mention is being muddled with the FRAGILITY of your intellect, or lack there-of. Offense meant as I think you're JOKING anyhow (like I did on my first post here on pg. 14!)

You'd think if evolution were real that we'd at least resemble some strength of an animal even our so called ape ancestors who are literally up to and over 20 times our physical strength... even just a chimpanzee is something like 3 times stronger than a fully grown man.

Mostly BS here and Chimps spend their lives swinging from branch to branch and have to carry their whole body-weight. The MYTH you persist with is a strength to body size ratio and we are BIGGER than CHIMPS!

I'd love someone to explain to me why on earth we evolved to be physically weaker in every aspect, we are so very susceptible to diseases.

Nature is a battle ground and OUR IMMUNE SYSTEM EVOLVES CONSTANTLY - It's doing OK.

If evolution is a real thing why do we even need stuff like vaccines?

We DON'T need them but they can help EVOLVE our Immune System with LESS RISK (if they're not CONTAMINATED!).

I believe the reason we are so fragile and weak compared to animals is because we aren't built to last, we're built to live a life time on earth and then be put where we belong be that heaven or hell.

Our lifetime is controlled by telomerase CELL REPRODUCTION STOPPERS and our HEART beats.
Our longevity is much like any other large mammal.

Also you guys must really ask yourselves why humans are so much more intelligent than animals, the gap between the intelligence of the smartest type of animal versus humans is huge.

As we study animals (even bird-brains) and anthropology we see more and more intelligence.

If creationism is wrong, evolution sure as hell is NOT the right answer. It has far too many flaws.

It's either one or other, CHOOSE WISELY!

You guys that take evolution as gospel truth from your scientist idols are no better than ignorant religious zealots You guys would never argue with a scientist you basically just take it as fact because you're not a scientist you're not going to argue with or against one.

Talk to the hand, I'm not listening..!..

They can say A + B + C = X, X does this Y does this which creates Z there you have it science! The ignorant masses lap it up, they're not going to argue against a scientist.

The IGNORANT MASSES are TAUGHT by IGNORANT MINISTERS, SHEEPLE.
Logic is USEFUL.

Surely by now you guys should know how massively manipulated the world around us is, why wouldn't you think they wouldn't use scientists as a tool to manipulate the masses?

Yesss, we know that.

reply to post by Monger


I don't mean anything by it, just rephrasing your opening statement and I believe in evolution through intelligent design. I think the world is a lot older and gone through this cycle every seven thousand years and that's why we find lost civilizations and wonder what happened. Cycles are everywhere in music,Love and hate and just like split infinity said about us having the universe in our blood and we are made of dirt as the old saying goes. It's because it was the only way this story could be told to developing minds at the time and was passed on through ancient civilizations.

Split infinity has a lot of experience in this field and has done tests to find his answers but his answers are for the doing away of intelligent design. Man has gained a lot of knowledge in a short period of time in which they found how things work but don't know how things appeared. As i said before on another thread you are living in the mind of God and you will find that evolution can exist where all things are possible.

reply to post by PrivateSi


You do realize evolution is a belief right?
Per the great Dr. Horowitz at Yale, the chances of life occurring spontaneously is about 1/10362( after 1/1050 the likelihood of occurrence is never).

Despite endless funding and research no one has been able to create primordial conditions.

Sounds like a belief to me. Sounds a little fanatical considering how unlikely evolution is the reason for the creation of life on earth, that one would completely dismiss Intelligent design. Sounds shall I say... closed minded and un-scientific.

An overwhelming theme I'm noticing in this thread, is that many of you are open to the possibility of a creator, you just don't want to give him the same attributes as religious beliefs such as omnipotence.

I've read many fairy dust and unicorn comments from arrogant evolutionists, yet not a single one of you has been able to explain how stardust turned into life. In fact, the odds of all of this happening by chance is so impossible that not even the greatest minds in the world can conclusively eliminate the need for a creator.

reply to post by pyramid head


Evolution is the explanation of the diversity of life on earth not the explanation of the source or creation of life. I can see how you would be confused.

I don’t mind if some want to label it a belief in a sense it is. Evolution is a scientific theory supported by empirical evidence for those who want to dumb it down you can call it what you want but the great thing about it is that you do not need faith to believe in it. Faith and supernatural has been taken out of the equation.

With intelligent design it is not supported by empirical evidence and you need faith. You also have to make a leap in logic where you have faith that our design is actually intelligent in nature which I would have to disagree. If there is an intelligent designer he needs to put up a suggestion box up there are many here including myself that would improve the design drastically.

Of course there is the simple answer as to why we are the way we are which is there is no such thing as flying spaghetti monsters or gods. Of course you are free to believe what you want.

reply to post by FreeThinkerbychoice


Damn!

That was a good reply. Good Job!

Split Infinity

Originally posted by CristobalColonic

its systems of control upon the intellectually un-evolved.

Bahahahaha! intellectually un-evolved
In a battle of wits, I would crush your superior intellect buddy. Any time, any topic I disagree with. Bring it son.

reply to post by SimonPeter


Some kids are being born without those teeth at all. Humans at one time needed them as we had to grind up heavy vegitation to get our Carb intake.

Split Infinity....p.s...I will give you the benefit of the doubt but...Be Careful.

Do not confuse my relative good nature with weakness to respond to possible cryptic insults.

If that was not your purpose then I will apologize beforehand.

Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity

Some kids are being born without those teeth at all. Humans at one time needed them as we had to grind up heavy vegitation to get our Carb intake.

Myself and all of my descendants could yank all of our teeth out for the next million years and my descendants would still grow teeth. If kids are being born without teeth, it's because one of their ancestors had a birth defect that the opposite sex found attractive. In order for wisdom teeth to go away completely, they will have to be bred out. Cutting them out because we don't need them does nothing to advance evolution.

reply to post by Grimpachi


The diversity of life is part of evolution, yes, but in that same conversation is the beginning of life and how it pertains to evolution. You cant leave it out because it is convenient or it suits you. I am not confused by the situation at all, very clear actually.

I have an extensive background in biology, cellular to be specific, and if you have taken any entry level university course has an undergrad, the evolution part of the course will begin with the explanation of the beginnings(primordial soup ect..). If you were to take genetics you would focus on the diversity portion, but it is not left out.

What I said still stands and makes sense. It is illogical to disregard how unlikely evolution is responsible for life on earth. Mathematically and logically it makes more sense that another being has had a hand in our development and maybe even the creation of humans specifically, whether that being is a god or another life form, I do not know. A true "man of science" could simply not disregard this because it does not fit their view.

Evolution and intelligent design can exist together, usually it is just fanatical atheists who refuse acknowledge this. But to say you have empirical evidence on how life began is very foolish, if you can somehow create primordial conditions that can replicate how life began I suspect you may become a very famous man soon.

reply to post by pyramid head


Building a strawman I see. Can you quote where I said evolution explains the beginning of life. That is your position not mine. You claim to have a background in biology yet state evolution is less likely than the supernatural. Ok fine that’s great for you however I feel your online credentials are in question with that line of reasoning.

I am not sure if you are saying evolution is bogus or not you seem to skate around the subject anyway I will put you down for spaghetti monster and stick with excepted science is that OK with you.

That was rhetorical I am not seeking your approval.

Science does not claim to have all the answers but bravely searches for them. Intelligent design sees he unknown and try’s to fill in the gaps with the claim of supernatural. There is nothing scientific about intelligent design you may fool some with that proposition but not I.

BTW the word you were searching for is Abiogenesis or Spontaneous generation when referring to the scientific theory of the origin of life they should have taught you that in entry level biology no. Which is the most preposterous life spontaneously springing forth from non-organic matter or a supernatural being springing forth into existence who then decides to create man.

Never mind it was rhetorical.

BTW I don’t have a need to understand or seek the knowledge of the origins of life it isn’t something that I see as that important for day to day living maybe it is because I am not religious. The accepted scientific explanations suffice just fine IMHO but I do find it peculiar how there is a group that seems to rail against science as a whole almost religiously.

reply to post by Bone75


OK....Quantum Evolution as it applies to the creation of the very first Single Celled Organism upon Earth as you request.

As I have stated before...Quantum Evolution...which is not a theory but a proven fact of reality as we see it occuring all around us everywhere in our Universe. For example...the process by which our Sun and every Star in the Universe converts Hydrogen into Helium by Fusion. This is a perfect example of Quantum Evolution as Quantum Evolution is defined as the process of Matter...which in it's elemental state is Protons and usually Neutrons in an Atomic Nucleus and orbiting around that nucleus are Electrons equal in number to the Protons or Proton...anyway...the process of Matter arranging itself in greater and greater complexity using the various Universal Mechanisms to do so.

In Stars the Fusion of Hydrogen into the more complex Element Helium is driven by the mechanism of Gravitic Compression which causes extreme temps. and warping of Space/Time. Also...Stars that go Supernova create the heaver Elements such as Lead, Gold, Uranium, Copper....etc.

Besides all the various Elements created by these mechanisms of Quantum Evolution we also have the mechanism of Chemical Reaction which allows for the creation of Molecules.

Over long periods of time Quantum Evolutions mechanisms will create very complex and long chain molecules thus DNA. Now DNA unto itself is not life but the existence of the VIRUS which is a created construct of Quantum Evolution that has DNA that IS NOT LIFE shows us how these mechanisms will Evolve Matter into such complex Molecular forms that using just inannimate Matter...something so close to life...the VIRUS...can be created.

From this step just below LIFE...it is just a matter of material and condition. LIFE...is simply one step further in the ever continuing Evolutionary State of Matter as once the DNA Molecule has Evolved from innanimate Matter....combinding such DNA along with Sea Water...Solar Radiation or Lightning which facilitates Chemical Reaction...LIFE IS CREATED.

Many...Many experiments recreating the original materials and conditions Billions of years ago are ongoing in Colleges and Universities and Research Labs all over the world with OVER 20 claiming to have created LIFE and waiting for their findings to be verified as they must be checked for possible contamination as well as they must recreate the experiment.

Once Quantum Evolution develops or creates LIFE...Biological Evolution takes place but Quantum Evolution never really stops as it's nature is to keep arranging Matter into greater and greater complexity...this is shown as a Single Celled Organism will EVOLVE into a Muticelular Animal...such as is a Human.

It is WITHOUT A DOUBT much easier to understand, prove and believe that Quantum Evolution is a REALITY whether it be the tool of a GOD or a tool of Nature...that to understand, prove and believe that a GOD would just cause everything to blink into existence without any process of development.

Split Infinity

reply to post by Bone75


HEY!

I just did!

Split Infinity

reply to post by defcon5


I could use your own argument as proof our design is far from being intelligent.

Surely an intelligent creator would design a far superior model than what evolution has selected.

Your point kind of works against the idea of deity’s IMO.

reply to post by Grimpachi

Originally posted by pyramid head
reply to post by PrivateSi

 

You do realize evolution is a belief right?
Per the great Dr. Horowitz at Yale, the chances of life occurring spontaneously is about 1/10362( after 1/1050 the likelihood of occurrence is never).

Despite endless funding and research no one has been able to create primordial conditions.

Sounds like a belief to me. Sounds a little fanatical considering how unlikely evolution is the reason for the creation of life on earth, that one would completely dismiss Intelligent design. Sounds shall I say... closed minded and un-scientific.

Those numbers od probability pertain to material and conditions present.

When Materials and Conditions are present as they were on Earth over a Billion Years ago...the Probability of the Creation of LIFE goes up to 100%

You have to be careful with percentages and probabilities as their numerical values are always specific to the Conditions and Materials present at the time. This is even true for the possible outcome of events.

As example...A person is driving to work...if the enviromental conditions are 70 degree's F. and Sunny with a dry road while driving a New Car in perfect condition and light traffic of all experienced drivers on that road...there is a HIGH Probability that person will have a safe uneventful drive to work.

Same scenario...change one condition...rain....Probability for an event occuring that will cause the drivers vehicle to crash goes up greatly...add a second condition...phone call from Mom...Probability goes up even higher...add a material...cut up tree branches fallen off the back of a truck in the road...that Probability for a crash keeps going up....EVENTUALLY....given enough time...and given enough of the specific conditions and materials that are conductive to that driver crashing the car...Probability will reach 100%.

This is the same principle for the Quantum Evolutionary development of LIFE. Given the proper Conditions and Materials and given enough time...LIFE will manifest. This concept is a basic tenet of Logic.

Split Infinity

reply to post by defcon5


It is great that you believe in that sort of stuff but I have not seen any evidence that supports a belief in such a being. I am not sure which god it is that you believe in but it sounds like an Abrahamic version. I don’t know how you do it but I get the feeling that you think you have chosen the correct one. Just imagine if you were born in a different part of the world you would be following the wrong one you are pretty lucky. Then again that’s probably what other people think as well in a vice versa sense. It is no wonder there have been wars fought over whose god is the true god. I just wish he would take the time and tell everyone so we could avoid the useless bloodshed. Surely an omnipotent being could do something so trivial unless there isn’t one.

I think if people are going to believe in gods they should go back to the original one. Zeus Poseidon and so forth or even the older ones at least they had excuses for letting us humans squabble over trivial matters. Maybe we should just go back to worshiping the sun at least we can see that and it does something for us.

Sorry I don’t mean to ramble but the moment I think about the entire concept of gods the entire premise just seems overwhelmingly dumb to me. I was just reading scientific American today and they have dated flaked stone tools back to over 2.6 million years ago yet there are still those that would have us believe the earth is less than 10,000 years old because an old book says so.

Oh well you say potato I say potato.

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by pyramid head

 

Building a strawman I see. Can you quote where I said evolution explains the beginning of life. That is your position not mine. You claim to have a background in biology yet state evolution is less likely than the supernatural. Ok fine that’s great for you however I feel your online credentials are in question with that line of reasoning.

I am not sure if you are saying evolution is bogus or not you seem to skate around the subject anyway I will put you down for spaghetti monster and stick with excepted science is that OK with you.

That was rhetorical I am not seeking your approval.

Science does not claim to have all the answers but bravely searches for them. Intelligent design sees he unknown and try’s to fill in the gaps with the claim of supernatural. There is nothing scientific about intelligent design you may fool some with that proposition but not I.

BTW the word you were searching for is Abiogenesis or Spontaneous generation when referring to the scientific theory of the origin of life they should have taught you that in entry level biology no. Which is the most preposterous life spontaneously springing forth from non-organic matter or a supernatural being springing forth into existence who then decides to create man.

Never mind it was rhetorical.

BTW I don’t have a need to understand or seek the knowledge of the origins of life it isn’t something that I see as that important for day to day living maybe it is because I am not religious. The accepted scientific explanations suffice just fine IMHO but I do find it peculiar how there is a group that seems to rail against science as a whole almost religiously.

edit on 25-2-2013 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)

I see you have a hard time with comprehension...
You want to conveniently leave out evolution when it does not fit. You can attack my education but your lack of one shows in your reasoning. Evolution does not exist without "spontaneous generation". Again, basic biology. You are attacking something but like most unintelligent atheists you seek to explain the middle and ignore the beginning, then have the audacity to tell someone that they are wrong for giving a rational explanation for that beginning.

Its funny how you are not searching for "the origins of life" when your reasoning is mathematically impossible, but then you want to simply dismiss other explanations(like ID) like your some scientific authority on the origins of life. Your are not even putting together coherent thoughts.