Is there any better argument against intelligent design that the human mouth/teeth?

reply to post by Monger


The human mouth doesn't fit wisdom teeth commonly because of social trends in what is found attractive, primarily. Fine features have commonly been favored for a long time, and fine features often have smaller mouths as well, though not always. It's called gene expression. Kind of like culling livestock...you make them trend towards expressing whichever genes--which they already possess, or which they have lost the ability to express, in situations like cattle without horns--you prefer. It's much ado about nothing and only shows an incredibly poor understanding of genetics, gene expression, and the overall concepts involved in the working of complex systems. Not that I entirely blame you, the entire field of evolutionary biology could use some serious training in engineering to give them some perspective on some of the asinine things they put forth at times.

On the other hand, I have my wisdom teeth, and they're pretty awesome and fit very well. In fact, I have naturally straight teeth, too, and enough space on my jaw that I could probably pack another tooth in there if it were necessary. Crooked teeth and the lack of room for wisdom teeth are genetic abnormalities caused by the LOSS of perfect information in the code, not the evolution towards anything else. (In fact, given the health issues caused by impacted wisdom teeth, it wouldn't have been a trend caused by natural pressures even if such teeth are unnecessary in the view of some, because prior to modern dentistry, it would have been a severe disadvantage. The entire line of logic is absolute nonsense.)

Also, disregarding belief in one system or other for a moment, all these "flaws" in design can also be explained by loss of data (DNA) integrity over time through mutations--aka entropy. See, that's sort of the funny thing about the debate of god-love vs god-hate; most--maybe all--of the mechanisms ascribed to either side could, in turn, be used to support the opposing viewpoint if you simply turn the bias around. Believe what you think to be true, but realize that we all interpret data according to how we view the world. The data does not change, only the perspective of the observer. You see what you want to see in it...and if you want a truly enlightening introspective journey, aspire to understand why you perceive the world in the manner that you do. Once you have, maybe then you will be able to stand in another's shoes and be able to respect and understand why they see the world as they do.

The only 'intelligent design' lies in religion itself- that even to this day it can con so many saps into espousing such airy-fairy concepts.

reply to post by CristobalColonic


You realize that being hateful is only a sign of your own insecurity? If you disagree, be respectful. Otherwise you're only telling everyone else that you're being a bully to hide your own doubts or ignorance. Nobody wins with that attitude. You can express your disdain for the concepts much more effectively by being articulate and sharing thoughts, not insults.

reply to post by NJoyZ

If you have body malfunctions, it's because of what you've eaten.

I agree that food is important but just like everything in this complex world of ours there are often multiple reasons for body malfunctions. It might be the food we eat, exposure to toxins, radiation, failures within the body, and probably of lots of other reasons. Food is not going to prevent falls, burns, or cuts. Food is not going to prevent infections by bacteria, viruses, or parasites.

Food can be a problem between generations. In developing countries increased food production can lead to severe problems with child birth. Babies are larger while the mothers are smaller leading to a rise in C-sections.

As I pointed out, impacted teeth have been happening for millennia including impacted wisdom teeth. This is not a modern problem from modern diets.

I do agree that eating right is important. There are limitations to what good food can do. Food is probably not the reason for impacted wisdom teeth.

reply to post by Monger


I just put this in another thread here but I'll say it again.

Why do I have a coccyx?
A tailbone, why is it there?
It's a remnant of our ancestors built right into our bodies.
Mine is bruised at the moment, that's what brought me to think of this at this time.

We used to have tails, now we don't, evolution fact.

reply to post by Chukkles


Well, technically, that's sort of an assumption, but that point aside, in rare cases people are born with tails. To assume that is a evolutionary throwback is, ultimately, just an assumption. It could be that tails on humans were once as common as horns on cattle, but then something in the past led to it being culled, such as tribal wars or fashion. Pronouncing an assumption as a debate ender is kind of...lacking.

reply to post by saturnine_sweet


Plenty of fossilized ancient human footprints and even entire families walking together have been found after having been preserved in stone, yet curiously, none of those tracks show any sign of a tail dragging on the ground behind them.

reply to post by Monger

Monger, I meant no disrespect or insult. It is simply my way of talking. The reason I PMed you was because I care and wanted to help you have a better future. I sometimes abandon reading threads I've started after a while and not knowing if you might do the same, I sent it to you directly, so that you might, if you choose, benefit from understanding more about how your body works and how what you put into it shapes it in more ways than just bellyfat. Utilize the information or deny it; either way you will be happy believing that you are right.

"To know is to have conquered a great challenge. To be able to share what you know so that another can accept -- is another great challenge." ~friend of mine.

reply to post by NJoyZ


Sure thing, bub. So calling somebody uneducated and essentially stupid right off the bat if just 'your way of talking'? You must be a real hit on the social scene. Like I said, spare me the condescending BS, you know nothing about me.

Originally posted by saturnine_sweet
reply to post by Chukkles

 

Well, technically, that's sort of an assumption, but that point aside, in rare cases people are born with tails. To assume that is a evolutionary throwback is, ultimately, just an assumption. It could be that tails on humans were once as common as horns on cattle, but then something in the past led to it being culled, such as tribal wars or fashion. Pronouncing an assumption as a debate ender is kind of...lacking.

Led it to being culled? You mean physically cut off by people?
Or do you mean that we evolved not t have them because we don't need them any more.
It's not assuming, the damn thing is there, it has always been there.
You think we grow a tail stump for no reason, is it in case one blooms mid life???
No it was a tail that no longer had any use.

Great evidence against Intelligent Design.

The fact that you breath and eat out of the same hole. Pretty stupid.

Cancer... Speaks for itself.

Diabetes...Speaks for itself

Sexual Reproduction...asexual is much more effective and easier for a species survival

The fact that the the majority of this planet is inhospitable to humans.

On a more scientific basis, Dr Kenneth Miller from Brown University pretty much destroys the fundamental foundations of ID

www.detectingdesign.com...


*edit* This one has been mentioned, but needs repeated. Nipples on a man. Enough said.

reply to post by m80kamikaze

*edit* This one has been mentioned, but needs repeated. Nipples on a man. Enough said.

Beacause it is funny.





It has all been said before. Why do people remain ignorant he asks.

Some will not understand the video some will refuse to acknowledge it and there will be others that will get angry for those who get angry the real question will be if they are so secure in their belief what is it that is really making them angry.


This thread has given me a great idea for another thread. Something along the line of if you were given supernatural powers like what god is supposed to have how would you fix the human design. Like the eyesight of a hawk, the ability to regenerate limbs like a lizard and so forth. I think it could be an interesting thread. Anyone have an idea about how I should format the thread?


Anyway intelligent design doesn’t make sense to me because it would mean that whoever designed us did a piss poor job I think most of us could do a better job in that position if we were all powerful.

I think there is room for both beliefs personally. It is pretty ignorant to deny evolution as it is pretty common knowledge that it is a proven fact. It is also pretty naive in my opinion, to think of the multiverse as a whole and deny the possibility that perhaps there is intelligent design at work. Especially when one takes into account the recent scientific belief that there is evidence that the universe is in fact similar to a computer simulation.

A recent scientific study undertaken by the University of Bonn in Germany suggests that the universe could be one giant computer simulation.

Cosmic Rays Offer Clue our Universe Could be a Computer Simulation

'The Idea we Live in a Simulation isn't Science Fiction'

The Measurement that Would Reveal the Universe is a Computer Simulation

Plato's Alegory of the Cave



I think it is more reasonable to say that there may be more to our existence than that which we profess to know. That is just my take on things, am I correct? Damned if I know, but I hope to someday have the awareness to find out.

Edit: I agree with the poster that said that maybe the entity responsible for the universe started the ball rolling with the "Big Bang" then just say back to watch it all unfurl. Why would a supreme being make us perfect if we were not meant to be that way? It is just as possible that we are supposed to eventually evolve to a point that we become masters of our own universe.

I am open to the possibility of some kind of intelligence to the universe but the idea of an omnipotent being is a complete farce in my opinion. Perhaps we were genetically engineered or something to that effect by another sentient race who knows however to think of some supernatural being just speaking us into existence is just a fairytale. Our planet is mostly covered by water yet drinking saltwater would cause our death for that matter wouldn’t it make sense for us to have been created to where we could inhabit the majority of our planet instead of the small percent that we do. Just think if we were able to safely ingest saltwater and our bodies could filter it. Think of how many people on this planet die from dehydration even in this day and age each year.

There is just no way that the Abrahamic religion is even close to being true. Keeping that in mind there is no reason to fret over the idea of god or gods because regardless of how we got here we need to stop looking to the heavens to solve our problems or waiting for some magical day that some figure reappears to save us. It isn’t going to happen and the sooner the world comes to terms with that the sooner we can get to work solving our own problems. It is still a worthy question to ponder but not as important as day to day living.

I have been called a child of evolution myself by several dentists. I have NO WISDOM TEETH. That is correct. I am almost 50 yrs old and can't tell you how many dentists have tried to proof that fact incorrect. The only dental nightmares I've had to endure are the countless hours of having to sit through those awful x-ray sessions because this dentist thinks he will be the first to find them hidden somewhere in my mouth. The egos of some dentists, I'll tell you! Never had, never will have Wisdom Teeth. Lucky me!
If anyone cares, I am also negative blood type, left handed. and have twinkly eyes. I believe that only 3% of the population are born without wisdom teeth and 17% born with negative blood. Being such a rare specimen should have some rewards one would think.

In my quest for knowledge of all sorts I ran across one internet post claiming that persons born without wisdom teeth are from the angelic realms. I am no angel or at least I don’t think I am. Anyone knows anything about this or have any useful info I’d be glad to hear all about it. Any and all comments welcome.

TERIMS

Originally posted by Grimpachi
I am open to the possibility of some kind of intelligence to the universe but the idea of an omnipotent being is a complete farce in my opinion.

Why? What we consider omnipotent may just be because we cannot yet understand the true nature or motivations of such a being.

Perhaps we were genetically engineered or something to that effect by another sentient race who knows however to think of some supernatural being just speaking us into existence is just a fairytale.

Genetic engineering is a possibility, it is entirely possible in my opinion that what we perceive as a supreme being is just in fact a highly advanced lifeform that is beyond our understanding.

Our planet is mostly covered by water yet drinking saltwater would cause our death for that matter wouldn’t it make sense for us to have been created to where we could inhabit the majority of our planet instead of the small percent that we do. Just think if we were able to safely ingest saltwater and our bodies could filter it. Think of how many people on this planet die from dehydration even in this day and age each year.

Might be that it is in our destiny to not be forever bound to this planet. There are things that we need to make reality for ourselves, exploring the stars is one such thing in my opinion. With all we know about the universe it is a statistical impossibility that there are not other planets like Earth.

There is just no way that the Abrahamic religion is even close to being true. Keeping that in mind there is no reason to fret over the idea of god or gods because regardless of how we got here we need to stop looking to the heavens to solve our problems or waiting for some magical day that some figure reappears to save us. It isn’t going to happen and the sooner the world comes to terms with that the sooner we can get to work solving our own problems. It is still a worthy question to ponder but not as important as day to day living.

I agree with this, it could very well be that who or whatever designed the universe and set it into motion intended for us to evolve and solve our own problems. That does not necessarily make him an "incompetent" supreme being, it just may mean that as the father/mother/owner of the universe that he expects more from the beings (regardless of species) that inhabit it. We are meant to evolve and grow beyond that which we currently are. I am not sure it is of less importance to ponder persay, but it is interesting for us to occasionally think of such things on our own time. Day to day living with no thought for who or what we are as sentient thinking beings lends itself to a dreary existence.

Originally posted by Terims
I have been called a child of evolution myself by several dentists. I have NO WISDOM TEETH. That is correct. I am almost 50 yrs old and can't tell you how many dentists have tried to proof that fact incorrect. The only dental nightmares I've had to endure are the countless hours of having to sit through those awful x-ray sessions because this dentist thinks he will be the first to find them hidden somewhere in my mouth. The egos of some dentists, I'll tell you! Never had, never will have Wisdom Teeth. Lucky me!
If anyone cares, I am also negative blood type, left handed. and have twinkly eyes. I believe that only 3% of the population are born without wisdom teeth and 17% born with negative blood. Being such a rare specimen should have some rewards one would think.

In my quest for knowledge of all sorts I ran across one internet post claiming that persons born without wisdom teeth are from the angelic realms. I am no angel or at least I don’t think I am. Anyone knows anything about this or have any useful info I’d be glad to hear all about it. Any and all comments welcome.

TERIMS

That is actually pretty cool in my opinion. I wish I were that unique, but I had wisdom teeth and being right handed, with Type A+ blood, brown hair and blue eyes is not at all that extraordinary.

Another massive design fault.

The hamstring area of the leg can not be heated up sufficiently to cause hyper-circulation.

This can be done on every other major muscle group.

Why is this so important.... It means we can injure ourselves very easily if we run. From an engineering standpoint. It is a very weak link in the chain.


If God did design us, he is not perfect. Where as evolution is not meant to be perfect. It is always a work in progress.

reply to post by Monger


Do they teach logic in school anymore? Did you read what you wrote? You do realize what you are saying actually makes a case for ID, right?
I'll explain it simply:
People needed wisdom teeth,
People had wisdom teeth,
People do not need wisdom teeth,
People still have wisdom teeth.

Get it? That is not evolutionary, and it makes a case for ID.
Very poor logic good-sir, simply associating yourself with a group does not grant you intelligence or logic, here
is what you meant:

People needed wisdom teeth,
People had wisdom teeth,
People do not need wisdom teeth,
People no longer have wisdom teeth.
Your mouth being crowded is just bad genetics, nothing to do with wisdom teeth. Teeth can be crowded without wisdom teeth. You should research "gallbladder" while your at it, it might surprise you. Not sure whats funnier the actual thread, or the people who read it and applaud you.

reply to post by Monger


Your choice of 'wisdom' 'teeth' is excellent on many levels so perhaps the best anti-cretanism argument STARTER! Diet change from tough tubors to raw meat to cooked meat combined with evolution's thriftyness resulted in smaller jaws and many people find chiseled faces more sexually attractive..

There are MILLIONS of equally good arguments against Cretanism (I refuse to give it its proper title) of which 100s of short examples can be found in my favourite short text on the topic:

CRETANISM or EVILUTION by Ed Babinski
www.talkorigins.org...

Be warned, many animals are harmed in the document and I had to type evilution stab-rape! into goggle to find it in the end... The first 30% contains anti-creator arguments, the last 70% contains 100s of BRUTAL pro-evolution arguments, each a few lines long... If you haven't read it, I would (applies to everyone)...

Almost forgot, Deek Jackson (big up) from the FKNNEWZ posted this a few days ago. He does serious satire for and against conspiracy theories (mostly for) and rips religions/creationist but has gone off on a more CREATIVE and INFORMATIVE, non-news non-satire direction recently.

The New History of Humanity - Part 1
www.youtube.com...